LIV Golf Now Closed?

[Wally Fairway]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

"Pretty please retroactively include LIV results." Bah ha ha ha ha.

 

I am not a fan of the LIV, nor the Saudi backers; but then I also have some issues with the OWGR. They have made exceptions to those rules, when it fits the purpose of helping the people they like. 
They give points for the Hero Challenge (an 18 player event for Tiger and a few of his buddies), and for the WGC events (limited field, no cut) the worst of which is the match play where you can get points for getting invited (aka never winning a match - so you can play maybe 50 holes of golf - saying you lose 2 matches and tie the other).

 
Maybe this is more about my dislike for a few of the things that the OWGR does, but if they were truly impartial then they would give an arbitrary points value to LIV events, say maybe 50%. Discounted due to limited field and fewer rounds. This would give an appearance of being impartial, while in reality not allowing more than 2-3 players to earn enough points to really matter if they are only playing in 10 events a year.

[jbishop15]

49 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

I am not a fan of the LIV, nor the Saudi backers; but then I also have some issues with the OWGR. They have made exceptions to those rules, when it fits the purpose of helping the people they like. 
They give points for the Hero Challenge (an 18 player event for Tiger and a few of his buddies), and for the WGC events (limited field, no cut) the worst of which is the match play where you can get points for getting invited (aka never winning a match - so you can play maybe 50 holes of golf - saying you lose 2 matches and tie the other).

 
Maybe this is more about my dislike for a few of the things that the OWGR does, but if they were truly impartial then they would give an arbitrary points value to LIV events, say maybe 50%. Discounted due to limited field and fewer rounds. This would give an appearance of being impartial, while in reality not allowing more than 2-3 players to earn enough points to really matter if they are only playing in 10 events a year.

Speaking specifically of Tiger's event, that was played for several years without OWGR points, before it was handed an exception. 

The most persuasive argument in favor of LIV getting an exception is PGA TOUR China (ironically), which got fast-tracked and didn't have to wait a number of years to start getting points. But they also hit all the requirements necessary. 

My hatred for LIV is so strong that I want the OWGR to tell them to shove it up their ass, but I do think eventually LIV will get points if the Saudis dont pull the plug before then. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by jbishop15

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

They have made exceptions to those rules, when it fits the purpose of helping the people they like.

The exceptions are few and far between, and they're not nearly as "exceptional" as you think.

5 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

They give points for the Hero Challenge (an 18 player event for Tiger and a few of his buddies), and for the WGC events (limited field, no cut) the worst of which is the match play where you can get points for getting invited (aka never winning a match - so you can play maybe 50 holes of golf - saying you lose 2 matches and tie the other).

The thing is, they're sanctioned by the PGA Tour and players have to qualify to get into them.

That they're part of the PGA Tour means that the typical PGA Tour event is a 72-hole event with a cut and 144-156 players in the field. If you averaged in these types of events (and included the Tournament of Champions and the Tour Championship), you'd end up with something like (I'm making this up) an average of 71.2 holes and 137 player fields (with cuts). LIV can make no such claims.

The fact that the players qualify — they're not just chosen like the LIV players — is important, too, because without that you couldn't EVER have a no-cut or smaller-field event which awarded OWGR points. So the Tour Championship, Tournament of Champions, etc. would not be awarding points. Does that seem to make sense?

Again, they're not the exceptions you seem to think they are.

[Darkfrog]

Seems like LIV's only point is "we have some good players, so our fields should be awarded OWGR points".

I wonder if this is a preview for a lawsuit or something.

For those who know the OWGR process better, is there any precedent for retroactively awarding OWGR points? Seems like by the time LIV does get accepted (assuming they do), all the players will have fallen way down the rankings, which I assume will make it difficult for the LIV players to climb the rankings only playing in LIV events.

The LIV player signed letter seems a little desparate...

[turtleback]

5 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

They give points for the Hero Challenge (an 18 player event for Tiger and a few of his buddies), 

Everything in that statement, other than the fact that points are awarded, is wrong.  It is 20 players, not 18.  And it's not for Tiger and a few of his buddies, it is for the top 18 ranked players in the world with 2 sponsors exemptions.  Misrepresenting the event doesn't help your case.  

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Darkfrog said:

Seems like LIV's only point is "we have some good players, so our fields should be awarded OWGR points".

Pretty much.

1 hour ago, Darkfrog said:

For those who know the OWGR process better, is there any precedent for retroactively awarding OWGR points?

I don't think so.

1 hour ago, Darkfrog said:

Seems like by the time LIV does get accepted (assuming they do), all the players will have fallen way down the rankings, which I assume will make it difficult for the LIV players to climb the rankings only playing in LIV events.

Yup.

[Big Lex]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:37 PM, dennyjones said:

It would be an interesting situation if the league folded after 2025.   

It will definitely fold after 2025. It's dead in the water now. 

[Moxley]

21 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

It will definitely fold after 2025. It's dead in the water now. 

That's but probably wishful thinking , but even if true, what about the interim and the period thereafter ? Do we just accept that Majors will be missing half the players , international team competitions being reduced to meaningless exhibition games and the ranking system being discredited? 

 

It's this sort of thinking that is threatening to ruin golf for years if not decades.

[Jeremie Boop]

4 minutes ago, Moxley said:

That's but probably wishful thinking , but even if true, what about the interim and the period thereafter ? Do we just accept that Majors will be missing half the players , international team competitions being reduced to meaningless exhibition games and the ranking system being discredited? 

 

It's this sort of thinking that is threatening to ruin golf for years if not decades.

Majors missing half the players and internation team competitions meaningless? I don't know that either of those claims are accurate. At least, not with the names I've seen. Granted, I'm out of the loop, so some of the names may have more significance than I realize.

[Moxley]

8 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Majors missing half the players and internation team competitions meaningless? I don't know that either of those claims are accurate. At least, not with the names I've seen. Granted, I'm out of the loop, so some of the names may have more significance than I realize.

Have a look at the president's cup thread, it is around half the international team at least.

Majors, probably less than half as of now but there'll be more in the interim. It's no longer just Phil, Sergio etc, but recent major champions (8 of the last 19 major  championship wins have come from LIV golfers), good talents like Niemann and Wolff, and solid mid rankers who'd typically make it there like Gooch and so on

[Vinsk]

22 minutes ago, Moxley said:

being reduced to meaningless exhibition games

Well this is what LIV Golf is…..

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Big Lex said:

It will definitely fold after 2025. It's dead in the water now. 

Uhhhhh… no. Not sure what you're smoking there, but don't pass it around, please.

3 hours ago, Moxley said:

That's but probably wishful thinking , but even if true, what about the interim and the period thereafter ? Do we just accept that Majors will be missing half the players

You keep going with this "half the players" stuff, but that's completely bogus. Almost exponentially bogus.

2 hours ago, Moxley said:

Majors, probably less than half as of now but there'll be more in the interim.

No kidding "less than half." WAY less than half.

3 hours ago, Moxley said:

It's this sort of thinking that is threatening to ruin golf for years if not decades.

No, because LIV players might become irrelevant, and new stars will be born.

[ssbn611]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:09 AM, Elmer said:

And there is Pat Perez, who I cant even remember the last time I saw him be competitive on the PGA tour. But now he is playing and winning money with a 71.5 stroke average. I am not even sure if this would make the cut on any PGA tour!

 

Perez managed to keep his PGA Tour card for 25 straight years. Never lost it. He also won three times, most recently in 2017. Before leaving for LIV he was on track to keep his card for another year. He also already had his Champions Tour exemption earned. So it seems he was competitive.

To be fair he wasn’t getting the LIV deal without his buddy DJ, but that has paid off quite well To the tune of $13M+ so far. He probably ain’t missing the PGA Tour.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, ssbn611 said:

Perez managed to keep his PGA Tour card for 25 straight years. Never lost it. He also won three times, most recently in 2017. Before leaving for LIV he was on track to keep his card for another year. He also already had his Champions Tour exemption earned. So it seems he was competitive.

He has a different definition of "competitive" than you do.

I agree more with his: he wasn't all that competitive, even if he was retaining his card.

He's made the Tour championship one time in the last 15 years.

[Darkfrog]

It sounds like Greg Norman's LIV pitch to Congress did not go well | Golf News and Tour Information | GolfDigest.com

Quote

“Don’t come in here and act like you’re doing some great thing while you’re pimping a billion dollars of Saudi Arabian money and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in the United States,” Rep. Chip Roy (R-Texas) told reporters.

Lol.

[turtleback]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:23 PM, Moxley said:

That's but probably wishful thinking , but even if true, what about the interim and the period thereafter ? Do we just accept that Majors will be missing half the players , international team competitions being reduced to meaningless exhibition games and the ranking system being discredited? 

 

It's this sort of thinking that is threatening to ruin golf for years if not decades.

Half, LOLOLOLOLO 

22 hours ago, iacas said:

He has a different definition of "competitive" than you do.

I agree more with his: he wasn't all that competitive, even if he was retaining his card.

He's made the Tour championship one time in the last 15 years.

Are you saying his career has been mediocre? 😉

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, turtleback said:

Are you saying his career has been mediocre? 😉

Nope. "Competitive" is the top small percentage. Competing for wins.

[ChetlovesMer]

If this has already been posted, I apologize. But a buddy of my sent me this link and I laughed my tail off. I'm sure most of you have seen this already, but I'm posting it anyway.