LIV Golf Now Closed?

[eich41]

27 minutes ago, Elmer said:

 

I agree with the article, if LIV guys want to come back, they got to pay a hefty fine, which can be distributed to the players!

Ha, good luck with that.  Why should they pay a fine?  The two (three actually) entities are now one and the same.  They aren't "coming back" any more than the PGA/DP Tour players are "going to" LIV.  Even if in a moment of complete brain loss they tried to "fine" these guys it would never hold up in a court.  

 

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they figure out a way to compensate all players, or at the very least the top players that stayed on the PGA Tour and passed on the big paydays.  It won't, however, be coming from the pockets of the guys who left for LIV.

 

Honestly I think this was inevitable.  At some point this was going to happen, or at the very least the PGA Tour was going to be forced to evolve and the end result would be a better set up overall.  I also believe that the performance of the LIV guys in the first couple of majors this year certainly played a factor in the speed of this move.  Rahm won the masters but the top of the leaderboard was littered with LIV guys, then Koepka won the PGA.  DJ wins the US Open and that's a pretty bad look for the PGA Tour who was adamant that it had the vastly superior talent. 

Reality is LIV was the best thing that ever happened to these players.  The guys who took the money got generational money for their families, and the guys that stuck around got large pay increases via the PIP money and the elevated events.  Not to mention that the fields were watered down with the LIV guys gone.  It's not a coincidence that there were 5 guys who had won multiple tourneys before the calendar turned to May this year.  Every one of these players should be grateful that the LIV tour was created, as they're all vastly wealthier for it.  

Edited June 6, 2023 by eich41

[boogielicious]

20 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Another question is, did Jay Monahan have authorization or the power to make a unilateral decision? Could this all fall apart? 

We can only hope.

[eich41]

3 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

We can only hope.

Meh, you're hoping that we continue to have two watered down versions of professional golf, with only 4 true tournaments a year?  There is no denying that the PGA Tour in 2021 was far more compelling than LIV or PGA Tour in 2022 and beyond. 

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, eich41 said:

Meh, you're hoping that we continue to have two watered down versions of professional golf, with only 4 true tournaments a year?  There is no denying that the PGA Tour in 2021 was far more compelling than LIV or PGA Tour in 2022 and beyond. 

You know what might be compelling, bring back the gladiator arena from ancient Rome. Let's really morally bankrupt ourselves for the sake of entertainment. 

I do not care if PGA Tour in 2021 is less of a compelling product than in 2023 and beyond. That isn't the point. 

Also, this... 

 

[Elmer]

14 minutes ago, eich41 said:

Meh, you're hoping that we continue to have two watered down versions of professional golf, with only 4 true tournaments a year?  There is no denying that the PGA Tour in 2021 was far more compelling than LIV or PGA Tour in 2022 and beyond. 

The PGA has continued to be compelling. It is anyone's week. Anyone can step up and play well. 
From what I have seen with LIV, it is not compelling.
It is like watching paint dry.
LIV to me, had the competitive attitude of a bunch of Frat dudes crushing MGDs while trying to up one another. 

 

 

[jxdama]

It will be a fun US Open. Glad the family  is  back together.

[eich41]

14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

You know what might be compelling, bring back the gladiator arena from ancient Rome. Let's really morally bankrupt ourselves for the sake of entertainment. 

I do not care if PGA Tour in 2021 is less of a compelling product than in 2023 and beyond. That isn't the point. 

Also, this... 

 

I'm fine if that's your stance.  Here is the problem with that.... You can't have selective virtue.  You can't condemn SA and anyone who associates with SA, then turn a blind eye to the PGA Tour pushing partnerships with China, who certainly has plenty of their own human rights issues.  So if you're going to go down that road, go all the way down that road.  You should have bailed on the PGA Tour 5 years ago and this LIV situation wouldn't even matter.  

[klineka]

3 minutes ago, jxdama said:

It will be a fun US Open. 

Only if the winning score is over par, right!!??

2 minutes ago, eich41 said:

I'm fine if that's your stance.  Here is the problem with that.... You can't have selective virtue.  You can't condemn SA and anyone who associates with SA, then turn a blind eye to the PGA Tour pushing partnerships with China, who certainly has plenty of their own human rights issues.  So if you're going to go down that road, go all the way down that road.  You should have bailed on the PGA Tour 5 years ago and this LIV situation wouldn't even matter.  

I don't think it's your place to gatekeep what someone does/doesn't care about though.

Maybe someone has a personal reason to condemn SA so that means more to them than what is happening in China. Maybe someone already disliked the PGA tour because of their ties with China but the SA connection became the final straw. 

That's not up for you to decide for someone else.

AFAIK China didn't fund a massive terrorist attack against the US on our own soil. 

You're saying to go all the way down that road, where does that road end? It would literally never end if you truly went "all the way down that road" Just because China is doing bad shit doesn't mean what SA is doing is acceptable. You can find bad shit in just about every single large company, organization, and country that exists.

[eich41]

23 minutes ago, Elmer said:

The PGA has continued to be compelling. It is anyone's week. Anyone can step up and play well. 
From what I have seen with LIV, it is not compelling.
It is like watching paint dry.
LIV to me, had the competitive attitude of a bunch of Frat dudes crushing MGDs while trying to up one another. 

 

 

It may still be compelling.  It's certainly not as good as it was pre-LIV.  The fields simply aren't as good, and there's really no argument to make there. My first post simply said that the PGA Tour was a far better product in 2021 than either the PGA or LIV have been since.  Would you argue otherwise?

[TourSpoon]

2 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

Get the popcorn out. I can't wait to see how he responds. 

Brandel actually did ok. When asked if he lost the fight, he responded by saying it wasn't about him. Popcorn not required. 🍿

[chspeed]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

It looks like a Cartel type of system. Where these guys are banding together to unify a market to eliminate competition.

Good point- merger may be challenged legally as forming a monopoly.

[PatrickMurtha]

15 minutes ago, eich41 said:

I'm fine if that's your stance.  Here is the problem with that.... You can't have selective virtue.  You can't condemn SA and anyone who associates with SA, then turn a blind eye to the PGA Tour pushing partnerships with China, who certainly has plenty of their own human rights issues.  So if you're going to go down that road, go all the way down that road.  You should have bailed on the PGA Tour 5 years ago and this LIV situation wouldn't even matter.  

Oh crap. Here is the problem with THAT…Everyone’s virtue is selective to a certain extent; no one does, or can, pick a fight on every issue. The implication here is that if you’re not 100% clean, you might as well be 100% dirty. I have taught ethics, and that is ridiculous. It is perfectly OK to make more of an issue of the Saudi money than the Chinese. I’m not especially keen on the Chinese money either, but they didn’t form a rival league, nor have they bought the existing one. I’m sure that if they did try to take over the PGA Tour, there would be PLENTY of questioning / critical voices. 

The essence of whataboutism is to demand a consistency of your opponents that you don’t demand of yourself.

Edited June 6, 2023 by PatrickMurtha

[eich41]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

Only if the winning score is over par, right!!??

I don't think it's your place to gatekeep what someone does/doesn't care about though.

Maybe someone has a personal reason to condemn SA so that means more to them than what is happening in China. Maybe someone already disliked the PGA tour because of their ties with China but the SA connection became the final straw. 

That's not up for you to decide for someone else.

AFAIK China didn't fund a massive terrorist attack against the US on our own soil. 

You're saying to go all the way down that road, where does that road end? It would literally never end if you truly went "all the way down that road" Just because China is doing bad shit doesn't mean what SA is doing is acceptable. You can find bad shit in just about every single large company, organization, and country that exists.

Anyone can care about whatever they want.  However, I can certainly call out the dissonance in caring about SA and its issues, while happily ignoring others.  

 

You're correct that if you go far enough down the rabbit hole you can find anything.  For me personally, I choose to simply view this through the lens of golf as everything else becomes a slippery slope.  

[boogielicious]

53 minutes ago, eich41 said:

Meh, you're hoping that we continue to have two watered down versions of professional golf, with only 4 true tournaments a year?  There is no denying that the PGA Tour in 2021 was far more compelling than LIV or PGA Tour in 2022 and beyond. 

Disagree. I think it was better this year. 

[saevel25]

13 minutes ago, eich41 said:

I'm fine if that's your stance.  Here is the problem with that.... You can't have selective virtue.  You can't condemn SA and anyone who associates with SA, then turn a blind eye to the PGA Tour pushing partnerships with China, who certainly has plenty of their own human rights issues.  So if you're going to go down that road, go all the way down that road.  You should have bailed on the PGA Tour 5 years ago and this LIV situation wouldn't even matter.  

Yes, I can condemn them for the SA thing only because that is the only thing I have been following and it is relevant right now. 

I have no clue what you mean by going all the way down that road. 

5 years ago, I didn't know that they had this issue with China. It clearly didn't blow up in their face like this has. So, sorry, I couldn't bail on the PGA Tour back then. Your actions are only based on the information you have and the experiences you lived to that present moment.

[turtleback]

I'll wait to hear details, but I'm 99% sure I am completely done with pro golf.

Now it is definitely time for Tiger to retire rather than colluding with this.

Edited June 6, 2023 by turtleback

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, eich41 said:

You're correct that if you go far enough down the rabbit hole you can find anything.  For me personally, I choose to simply view this through the lens of golf as everything else becomes a slippery slope.  

So if you get to define how you view things, why are you calling someone else out for how they choose to view things?

What if someone else is choosing to view this only from the perspective of the fact that the competing league was started and is funded by SA money? China didn't start a competing league and fund it with government money. 

Personally I have always hated the "what about X" takes that always seem to come up on here, on twitter, etc. They distract from the primary issue that is at hand/being discussed. There can be a separate conversation about China, but that's not what today/this topic is about.

[ChetlovesMer]

6 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Disagree. I think it was better this year. 

You and me both.