LIV Golf Now Closed?

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, StuM said:

I have a sense some LIV players may have known something.  Some pulled out of the cases against the PGAT in the last few weeks.  I find that curious.

It's been reported that seven people knew about this. Greg Norman didn't even know. They pulled out because it wasn't important that they stay on - the PIF and LIV were still in the lawsuit.

Not because they knew about this.

[iacas]

[boogielicious]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

I feel the same way as Rich.

[StuM]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

It's been reported that seven people knew about this. Greg Norman didn't even know. They pulled out because it wasn't important that they stay on - the PIF and LIV were still in the lawsuit.

Not because they knew about this.

I missed that, been trying to catch up.

[boogielicious]

Here’s Rory’s full interview. Per him, LIV has nothing to do with it. Around the 4:30 mark. LIV is not part of the deal.

More around 8:30 about player anger and the LIV Players and confidence in Moynihan. Doesn’t look like the LIV players will be welcomed back with open arms.

Around 12:00 mark, “I hate LIV”.

[iacas]

 

14 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Here’s Rory’s full interview. Per him, LIV has nothing to do with it. Around the 4:30 mark. LIV is not part of the deal.

More around 8:30 about player anger and the LIV Players and confidence in Moynihan. Doesn’t look like the LIV players will be welcomed back with open arms.

Around 12:00 mark, “I hate LIV”.

He doesn’t know much more than anyone else though.

[jbishop15]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

I do as well, but at the same time if you are Rory, what are your options? Retire? I mean, he could. But it’s basically retire, playing only the majors, or continue to play golf.

His options definitely suck, I agree. Not really any good answers when the questions are this bad. I guess I'll just say that taking a stand on principles bigger than golf and then relenting on that stand by saying it's now only about what is good for golf really aggravates me. 

I think, too, where I am bumping on all of this is that I don't really care about how this impacts professional golf, because it's not going to make professional golf any better no matter the outcome. It's still going to be awash in commercials and short-sighted decisions, run by guys who want to make it easier and easier for the top players to cash in. The reason to oppose LIV and the Saudis wasn't out of loyalty to the PGA Tour, because the PGA Tour sucks -- it's because the Saudis are terrible.

I'm obviously not breaking any new ground here, just venting. 

[DeadMan]

This is an interesting article that goes against the idea that the PIF and Saudis have unlimited money to invest in golf forever:

The Rest Of the Story: The Overlooked Saudi Sand Trap Behind the Golf Treaty

---

The hidden risk to the PGA-LIV combination? Saudi money is not as limitless as it may seem.

 

[saevel25]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

I do as well, but at the same time if you are Rory, what are your options? Retire? I mean, he could. But it’s basically retire, playing only the majors, or continue to play golf.

Yep. This is why I do not like binary choices in life. It isn't that easy. Some will say, just leave. If all you know is golf, and you are his age, WTF are you going to do? It's hard to re-invent yourself. 

20 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

I guess I'll just say that taking a stand on principles bigger than golf and then relenting on that stand by saying it's now only about what is good for golf really aggravates me.

It is easy to stand on the sideline and say, "Take the high road Rory!" We do not know his finances, his personal life, we are not him. It isn't like he has control of his thoughts, feelings, and instincts about this whole thing. If Rory decides to play golf, I will not fault him at all. He has to make a living. It is very hard to re-invent yourself and move onto a 2nd phase of your life. Ask Tiger Woods. The man should have retired after that car accident. He thinks he still has fuel in the tank and can make a comeback. 

By the looks of it, Rory dropped out of HS to pursue his golfing career. At the end, when he has to weight, if I quit golf what will I do versus continue to play. I think continue the play will win out. 

[turtleback]

On 6/7/2023 at 12:02 PM, Darkfrog said:

Seemed like reluctantly though. He also said something about mixed emotions, and he didn't look particularly elated.

His only real choices are to go along or retire.

On 6/7/2023 at 12:12 PM, iacas said:

I think that…

• I think that at the end of the day the PGA Tour got a huge cash infusion.

Yes, but it is, what they have called, for the last couple of years, blood money cash.

[ChiTown]

I’m trying to catch up on all that’s happened and the conversation here is amazing. Here are my thoughts for what they’re worth

This “merger” isn’t about what’s best for golf, the players, or the fans. The Saudi PIF isn’t being benevolent. Some business types have run the numbers and decided that they will make a ton of $$$ on this investment. My guess is that “friends” of the PIF will start buying (or perhaps already own) golf courses that then just happen to get onto the tour schedule.

I’m also curious as to how this will impact the PGA in the broader sense and what may happen to the LPGA.

Looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts 

[jbishop15]

51 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Yep. This is why I do not like binary choices in life. It isn't that easy. Some will say, just leave. If all you know is golf, and you are his age, WTF are you going to do? It's hard to re-invent yourself. 

It is easy to stand on the sideline and say, "Take the high road Rory!" We do not know his finances, his personal life, we are not him. It isn't like he has control of his thoughts, feelings, and instincts about this whole thing. If Rory decides to play golf, I will not fault him at all. He has to make a living. It is very hard to re-invent yourself and move onto a 2nd phase of your life. Ask Tiger Woods. The man should have retired after that car accident. He thinks he still has fuel in the tank and can make a comeback. 

By the looks of it, Rory dropped out of HS to pursue his golfing career. At the end, when he has to weight, if I quit golf what will I do versus continue to play. I think continue the play will win out. 

I'm not necessarily saying "take the high road" as much as I am saying "you said you were taking the high road and when that road got steep you changed your mind". I also understand that him changing his mind is a reasonable response to something that he cannot stop. I don't think that makes him above criticism, however. 

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

I'm not necessarily saying "take the high road" as much as I am saying "you said you were taking the high road and when that road got steep you changed your mind". I also understand that him changing his mind is a reasonable response to something that he cannot stop. I don't think that makes him above criticism, however. 

No, you can criticize anyone. I doubt people who criticize him truly understand his situation, and in my opinion is probably unwarranted. 

[Elmer]

17 hours ago, chspeed said:

I know we're not supposed to talk politics in a vacuum, but this really relates to the PGAT.

If He Who Shall Not Be Named is in any way significant way involved in the PGAT, I personally will stop watching. For me, that's a bigger issue than Saudi blood money.

Both the British open and the PGA have turned their back on Voldemort.
I cannot imagine SA or PIL would involve this person in any significant way. 
This would be the opposite of growing the game as "He Who Shall Not Be Named" is only about self promotion and Self.

[TourSpoon]

17 hours ago, chspeed said:

If He Who Shall Not Be Named is in any way significant way involved in the PGAT, I personally will stop watching.

I seriously doubt this will be the case, however he did have a predictive tweet about this that was on the money (pun intended). But so did a lot of people that knew that money would win. 

 

16 hours ago, iacas said:

I do as well, but at the same time if you are Rory, what are your options? Retire? I mean, he could. But it’s basically retire, playing only the majors, or continue to play golf.

Rory really doesn't need to do anything different. Its all going to blow over once the golf starts and he can be a golfer again. Being the poster boy and now seemingly getting smacked in the face has to sting, but he will recover. 

 

41 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It is easy to stand on the sideline and say, "Take the high road Rory!" We do not know his finances, his personal life, we are not him. It isn't like he has control of his thoughts, feelings, and instincts about this whole thing. If Rory decides to play golf, I will not fault him at all. He has to make a living. It is very hard to re-invent yourself and move onto a 2nd phase of your life. Ask Tiger Woods. The man should have retired after that car accident. He thinks he still has fuel in the tank and can make a comeback. 

By the looks of it, Rory dropped out of HS to pursue his golfing career. At the end, when he has to weight, if I quit golf what will I do versus continue to play. I think continue the play will win out. 

He will keep playing imo. This doesn't reflect poorly on him, its on Monahan. Rory will have some awkward moments but he will get through them. 

What the sad part is that Monahan invoked the 911 families moral argument when this was always about money and power. I think they got caught off guard when LIV had some early success, had some star power, and then challenged them in court. BK contending and winning was an acceleration factor as it just drew more attention to the LIV debate. The settling was inevitable to not bleed money and to not disclose behind the scenes conversations that would come out. 

I really believe that LIV will morph somewhat as not always being the party 54 hole format. I think some of it will stay, but its got to involve some more mainstream events. Maybe they just fold it up and pack it away, I really don't know where it goes, but in the end the products will all have players that will potentially be paid more like mainstream athletes in other sports. 

And again, this is just my speculation and it will have zero impact on my ability to hit fairways at my club although it will make for some good barstool banter. 

[mdl]

17 hours ago, iacas said:

I do as well, but at the same time if you are Rory, what are your options? Retire? I mean, he could. But it’s basically retire, playing only the majors, or continue to play golf.

Team with Tiger to take all the non LIV players (assume they stay since they’ve shown they just follow the most guaranteed money) and start their own tour?

[DeadMan]

18 hours ago, chspeed said:

If He Who Shall Not Be Named is in any way significant way involved in the PGAT, I personally will stop watching. For me, that's a bigger issue than Saudi blood money.

Doing my best to leave politics out of this, but DT and the Saudis are very intertwined. His courses were hosting a bunch of LIV events. I expect that there will be PGA Tour event at DT-owned courses if this deal goes through. Also, if DT is elected President, the odds that the deal passes DOJ's antitrust scrutiny go up. In general, the Saudi government has been doing things that make it seem like they would rather have DT as President than other alternatives. So, unfortunately, I think politics and DT are part of background here.

Edited June 8, 2023 by DeadMan

[GolfLug]

50 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

I'm not necessarily saying "take the high road" as much as I am saying "you said you were taking the high road and when that road got steep you changed your mind". I also understand that him changing his mind is a reasonable response to something that he cannot stop. I don't think that makes him above criticism, however. 

I mean we can choose to not fill up our gas tanks, but for lack of options we do. When he had the option he took the high road and I applaud him for it as on face value he left money on the table back then too. But now if it is pro golf/no pro golf, it's a bit unreasonable to think he will walk away. I wouldn't.