LIV Golf Now Closed?

[iacas]

PGA Tour set for pivotal PIF meeting following investment decision

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The PGA Tour's latest decision comes ahead of commissioner Jay Monahan and PIF head Yasir Al-Rumayyan meeting in person this week.

[jsgolfer]

11 hours ago, GolfLug said:

That's the problem. No evidence of any of LIV ideas being interesting enough to claim improvement on poor 'old fashioned' PGAT.

Thank God golf is alive and well with the weekend bourgeois.

I'm with V, I'm certainly glad that golf is alive and well at my club, all the time.   But I too just can't wrap my head around what below is interesting?

54 Holes - Eh, Senior Tour territory

No Cut - Double Eh, other than money (which probably most of them don't need), what's the reason for playing, it's like Country Club Exhibition golf for a ton of money. I'm not sure there are enough of the "baba-booey" and "it's in the hole" guys to make this out draw the PGA tour. I think their TV ratings are abysmal, really the CW network. 

Limited Field - OK for Master's, I have no interest in watching the same 48 players play every round, boring.  Could care less about d***heads Patrick Redd and Poulter, not sure why the LIV think those two are a draw. Brooks Koepka whoopie, another guy with the personality of a wet noodle. 

Shotgun Starts - Awful - This is scramble territory.  

Payouts for last place - I'm glad they ae making buckets of money. I would take it too if I was them. But you make $120,000 grand for showing up, 

Team Element - Another snoozer, you can suck playing and get on a hot team and still make a bucket of cash.

No path to getting into field, at least on the PGA tour you have a few ways to make the tour.    

14 Events - blah

 

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

No Cut - Double Eh, other than money (which probably most of them don't need), what's the reason for playing, it's like Country Club Exhibition golf for a ton of money. I'm not sure there are enough of the "baba-booey" and "it's in the hole" guys to make this out draw the PGA tour. I think their TV ratings are abysmal, really the CW network. 

Yea, I think it would be more interesting if they had a cut after every round. 

64 to 32 to 16 to 8 would be interesting. In that, I think the previous rounds should not count towards the future rounds. Fresh restart, or at least fresh restart on the last day.

6 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

Limited Field - OK for Master's, I have no interest in watching the same 48 players play every round, boring.  Could care less about d***heads Patrick Redd and Poulter, not sure why the LIV think those two are a draw. Brooks Koepka whoopie, another guy with the personality of a wet noodle. 

Golfers always had horrible personalities on the course. So, I wouldn't bash the LIV guys on personality. It's not like the remaining PGA Tour players are any better. 

8 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

Payouts for last place - I'm glad they ae making buckets of money. I would take it too if I was them. But you make $120,000 grand for showing up, 

I thought the PGA tour could have done better for all golfers. Like cover expenses for travel or what not. Or, if you play in x-number of tournaments, then you get a base salary of like $250K per year. Like, if you play in 20 event. Below that, it decreases based on how many tournaments you play. 

 

[pganapathy]

I never understood the problem with shotgun starts.  This is how we play our club tournaments purely because you can get everybody on the course at once and hopefully they all finish at roughly the same time.  Makes catering easier and gives you a chance to meet everybody.  It also means in a professional tournament you have a lesser time needed for broadcast though it does mean everybody is on the course at once so following multiple groups is difficult (live or even on TV).

[jsgolfer]

9 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I never understood the problem with shotgun starts.  This is how we play our club tournaments purely because you can get everybody on the course at once and hopefully they all finish at roughly the same time.  Makes catering easier and gives you a chance to meet everybody.  It also means in a professional tournament you have a lesser time needed for broadcast though it does mean everybody is on the course at once so following multiple groups is difficult (live or even on TV).

A couple problems with it, shotgun starts are fine for scrambles and some club events, but I wouldn't want our club championship or other major stroke events to be a shotgun start.  Our club never does that, unless it is something weather related. Also, the 18th hole may become anti-climatic if players are tied or close to lead, if they are out somewhere else on the course.  18 at Pebble Beach would become just another hole. Also, some holes on the course are harder/easier than others, do the leaders get to pick which hole they want to start on, or do they always start on one? May or may not be an advantage, I know our first hole is one of the tougher holes on our course, there are far more holes I would rather start on than that one, pretty much any Par 5.

Plus, I don't think this would lessen the time at all.  For a full field and a morning and afternoon tee time, they would have to go to foursomes (72 players), unless they double up some holes with threesomes.  They are slow enough as it is with threesomes and twosomes using tee times, foursomes would be snail pace.  

And I'm guessing very few of the players are hanging around after golf to meet and shoot the shit with the other players and have lunch or dinner.  

44 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Yea, I think it would be more interesting if they had a cut after every round. 

64 to 32 to 16 to 8 would be interesting. In that, I think the previous rounds should not count towards the future rounds. Fresh restart, or at least fresh restart on the last day.

Golfers always had horrible personalities on the course. So, I wouldn't bash the LIV guys on personality. It's not like the remaining PGA Tour players are any better. 

I thought the PGA tour could have done better for all golfers. Like cover expenses for travel or what not. Or, if you play in x-number of tournaments, then you get a base salary of like $250K per year. Like, if you play in 20 event. Below that, it decreases based on how many tournaments you play. 

 

I agree, a lot of the players on the tour don't have good personalities, but when there are 150 players, the douche's don't seem as prevalent to me.  When it's only 48, they stick out like a sore thumb, and the LIV took most of the bigger douche's. The tour is going to provide 500K for the fully exempt players this year who play at least 15 events, so that is a start, should probably do more for all players

Maybe it will catch on with the younger crowd, but it's definitely not at my club.  

[saevel25]

12 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

A couple problems with it, shotgun starts are fine for scrambles and some club events, but I wouldn't want our club championship or other major stroke events to be a shotgun start.  Our club never does that, unless it is something weather related. Also, the 18th hole may become anti-climatic if players are tied or close to lead, if they are out somewhere else on the course.  18 at Pebble Beach would become just another hole.

Probably the best reason why not to do this on the final day. I do not care if the first 2 or 3 rounds are shot gun start. I just want to watch golf, and the end of the day doesn't matter like it does on Sunday. 

13 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

May or may not be an advantage, I know our first hole is one of the tougher holes on our course, there are far more holes I would rather start on than that one, pretty much any Par 5.

Not sure that is that big of a deal. 

13 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

Plus, I don't think this would lessen the time at all.  For a full field and a morning and afternoon tee time, they would have to go to foursomes (72 players), unless they double up some holes with threesomes.  They are slow enough as it is with threesomes and twosomes using tee times, foursomes would be snail pace.  

You would have to limit the field to 72 golfers. If your shotgun start, then all of them start at 8:00 AM, even if it is a 6-hour round, it finished by 2pm. Overall, you are not going from 8:00 AM till 6:00 PM, and not flirting with darkness at certain courses at certain times of the year. 

I wouldn't mind 72 golfers for Thursday/Friday and cut it down to 36 golfers for Saturday and Sunday. Or even go 72,72,36,18. If you have a gradual cut, it could make each day have stakes. 

 

[DeadMan]

Honestly, there are some aspects of LIV that are positive:

• Say what you will about the competitive aspects of the shotgun start, but the point of it was to make it more viewer-friendly. All the action is on the course at once, and the viewing window gets trimmed down to 4 (ish) hours. And, supposedly, the TV product when it was on YouTube was pretty good. Hard to be worse than the PGA Tour, though.
• Bringing big-time tournaments to golf-starved areas is a good idea. The LIV event in Australia seemed like it was great for fans at that tournament. There are other countries that would be great for a big-time event - I'm thinking Japan, Korea, South Africa, probably Ireland, too. An actual worldwide tour could be a great thing. Even in the US, the PGA Tour is very concentrated in the southern part of the US. It would be good to have a big event in Seattle, for example. Or go to Chicago more frequently. 
• I think there could be something with a team golf set up. LIV definitely hasn't gotten this right yet, but there is probably a way to do it that makes it interesting.

These do not outweigh the obvious negatives, particularly LIV devouring professional golf right now. And LIV definitely hasn't gotten any of these bullets right. But there is definitely a way to make golf better for fans and viewers, and a model like LIV's is closer than the PGA Tour's.

Edited December 11, 2023 by DeadMan

[GolfLug]

3 hours ago, DeadMan said:

Honestly, there are some aspects of LIV that are positive:

• Say what you will about the competitive aspects of the shotgun start, but the point of it was to make it more viewer-friendly. All the action is on the course at once, and the viewing window gets trimmed down to 4 (ish) hours. And, supposedly, the TV product when it was on YouTube was pretty good. Hard to be worse than the PGA Tour, though.
• Bringing big-time tournaments to golf-starved areas is a good idea. The LIV event in Australia seemed like it was great for fans at that tournament. There are other countries that would be great for a big-time event - I'm thinking Japan, Korea, South Africa, probably Ireland, too. An actual worldwide tour could be a great thing. Even in the US, the PGA Tour is very concentrated in the southern part of the US. It would be good to have a big event in Seattle, for example. Or go to Chicago more frequently. 
• I think there could be something with a team golf set up. LIV definitely hasn't gotten this right yet, but there is probably a way to do it that makes it interesting.

These do not outweigh the obvious negatives, particularly LIV devouring professional golf right now. And LIV definitely hasn't gotten any of these bullets right. But there is definitely a way to make golf better for fans and viewers, and a model like LIV's is closer than the PGA Tour's.

I guess small positives, and maybe the PGAT adapts some for like th JD Classic or something, but doing that via LIV is throwing away the baby with the bathwater.  

Shotgun - It's fine for a limited courses where finishing on 18th wouldn't matter. Imagine bunch of players at TPC Sawgrass finishing at, well, not the 18th, and holes leading up to it.  

Big-time tournaments - Maybe you mean big-time players. I appreciate the idea of a world wide tour and need for outreach to more remote places but unless the handful of elite players play year around and all over the map, that's always going to be a challenge. 

Holistically, it's hard to shake off this feeling that LIV golf is simply glorified silly season type golf. If it becomes the main circus, then I would count myself out as a serious fan/viewer. No other sport has felt the need to this kind of makeover and they have their own similar laments.  

[colin007]

Really hoping Finau doesn't go

[mcanadiens]

5 hours ago, DeadMan said:

Honestly, there are some aspects of LIV that are positive:

Let's not forget that it gave an entire generation an opportunity to learn the definition of cleeks. 

[iacas]

8 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I thought the PGA tour could have done better for all golfers. Like cover expenses for travel or what not. Or, if you play in x-number of tournaments, then you get a base salary of like $250K per year. Like, if you play in 20 event. Below that, it decreases based on how many tournaments you play. 

@saevel25, you have some reading to do. 😉 

[turtleback]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:14 AM, StuM said:

Do not take the following personal.

You sound a lot like my father did when I was young.  Things were always "Better before" and currently things are "Stupid bad" and of course to me as a teenager/young adult everything seemed normal and I felt he was "Out of touch".  Now, I am saying things similar to you about how much better it was before and I can't believe how bad some things have become....and if I had kids I would suspect they would be thinking I am old and out of touch.  Change is inevitable and not always to our liking.

 

Cool story.  Except I'm not talking about everything, I'm talking about golf.

[Mike Hitman]

For me, the LIV golf team concept has no value or interest, as it currently stands. With all the available brain trust, I'm confused how they could not get this right.

My theory is they looked at other team events i.e. Ryder cup, NFL, etc. and wanted to tap into that success. However, this is where the mistake was made. It wasn't just a team concept that works. Ryder Cup is about your country. NFL is about your city. These personalize it for the fan! Four random guys calling themselves the Niblicks! Come on! Completely missed the essential feature of a team for the fan.

Someone pass this on to LIV golf and have them send me royalty checks.

[StuM]

2 hours ago, Mike Hitman said:

For me, the LIV golf team concept has no value or interest, as it currently stands. With all the available brain trust, I'm confused how they could not get this right.

My theory is they looked at other team events i.e. Ryder cup, NFL, etc. and wanted to tap into that success. However, this is where the mistake was made. It wasn't just a team concept that works. Ryder Cup is about your country. NFL is about your city. These personalize it for the fan! Four random guys calling themselves the Niblicks! Come on! Completely missed the essential feature of a team for the fan.

Someone pass this on to LIV golf and have them send me royalty checks.

Just noticed, joined in 2018’and this is your 1st post. I have nothing against lurking l, but Welcome to TST!

[Mike Hitman]

The team thing in golf also has the issue of separate matches, not like two teams playing simultaneously.  What about this, teams of three players, one team plays another on the same hole, worst ball competition! Geared for a train crash around any corner! Hat to me gets interesting. Your team still Geographical located, win loss record over a season, playoffs. LIV golf implement that and then double my royalty checks. 

Worst ball chosen by other team on each shot.

[StuM]

30 minutes ago, Mike Hitman said:

Worst ball chosen by other team on each shot

Sounds like a Reverse Scramble, I’ll pass

[jsgolfer]

So I have seen that they do have a way for players to get on LIV tour, but of course they are 3 guys I’ve never heard of. And again, who wants to watch the same players play every week. 

[GolfLug]

On 12/13/2023 at 12:10 AM, Mike Hitman said:

The team thing in golf also has the issue of separate matches, not like two teams playing simultaneously.  What about this, teams of three players, one team plays another on the same hole, worst ball competition! Geared for a train crash around any corner! Hat to me gets interesting. Your team still Geographical located, win loss record over a season, playoffs. LIV golf implement that and then double my royalty checks. 

Worst ball chosen by other team on each shot.

Yah, we do 'fun' shit like that during our hack buddies' trips.... for afternoon rounds.