LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Darkfrog]

43 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Credit to Greg, Phil etc for resolve in and willingness to fight for something better in the face of such opposition.

I don't believe Greg or Phil had anything to do with the deal Jay Monahan made with the PIF.

[jxdama]

2 hours ago, Killa said:

Exactly. I mean the USA does like a gazillion billion dollars of trade with SA, especially weapons and nobody bats an eye. But everyone is "disgusted" by the money when they pay for golf 🤣

 

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

[saevel25]

17 minutes ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

that is a twisted point of view.

[Beastie]

Do Monahan, and Pelly have the authority on their respective tours to make this deal. Do the players have to ratify it? 

22 minutes ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

Rory and JT both stuck with the PGA tour and turned down huge amounts of money. Neither pled poverty. Rory very publicly turned down hundreds of millions of dollars because he didn’t agree with Liv golf’s morals and structure. He went out to bat for the PGA tour management and they have shafted him in a most underhand way. 

[TourSpoon]

Norman gets a W for his realization of a world tour that he has been pushing for 30 years. Going forward, he is not the solution (divider not uniter) by any means so now he gets to fade away (pun intended). 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

The PIF can increase their investment stake. Outside organizations and even the PGA/Euro Tours cannot do the same without approval from the PIF due to the first right of refusal. They’re a sponsor, yes, but one that explicitly reserves all rights to expand their financial stake and block other investors in the arrangement as it’s been laid out so far to the public.

I don't think you know what the terms are. To me sponsor is not the same as owner. I've had sponsors here at TST with the first right of refusal… they don't "increase their investment stake" by choosing to spend more or decrease it by spending less: they're not owners.

More specifics are needed.

Separately, PGA TOUR Inc. will remain in place as a 501(c)(6) tax exempt organization and retains administrative oversight of events for those assets contributed by the PGA TOUR, including the sanctioning of events, the administration of the competition and rules, as well as all other “inside the ropes” responsibilities, with Jay Monahan as Commissioner and Ed Herlihy as PGA TOUR Policy Board Chairman. PIF’s Governor Yasir Al-Rumayyan will join the PGA TOUR Policy Board. The DP World Tour and LIV Golf will retain similar administrative oversight of events on their respective Tours.

The Board of Directors of the new commercial entity will include Al-Rumayyan as Chairman and Monahan as Chief Executive Officer; the new entity’s Board will also include an Executive Committee comprising Al-Rumayyan, Monahan, Herlihy and PGA TOUR Policy Board member Jimmy Dunne. The full Board will be announced at a later date, and it is anticipated that all three founding members will have representation.

49 minutes ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable.

No, it isn't. Have you ever made a good point here that's not easily refuted by a halfway intelligent ten-year-old?

49 minutes ago, jxdama said:

And crying for the  "poor" pga  players

I don't see anyone doing that.

And they're PGA Tour players. The next people that get that wrong will be given a 20-point warning or something.

[WillieT]

Reading the discussion I am reminded of the conversations a good friend and I used to have regarding perspective.  He would set a glass in between us and ask the question “Can you see the entire glass?”  The obvious answer is no, as we cannot see in 360.  He would go on to say, that is why multiple views are necessary to get the entire view.  PGA, LIV, Euro/DP tours have their views of the same glass - professional golf.  We can only guess what each’s view really is. Our views are limited at best.  

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

It's a crippling stab in the back dude. WTH. 

Regardless of reason, whether this was a way out of a legal rabbit hole or maybe they had dirt on Monahan or pure greed or whatever, the pivot is stunning. 

The statements from the 'leadership' about how this is for the greater good feels like salt rubbed into wounds. 

Welp, let's see what unfolds. I think Monahan is a loser that we suspect he is and there is not a meticulous master plan. Just a half ass cobbled up bluster of bullet points 

One thing I'm not getting is how this can happen in vacuum without a vote from the players. From reports they are just as shocked as the common fan.

Wow.

[iacas]

 

[ChetlovesMer]

22 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

It's a crippling stab in the back dude. WTH. 

Regardless of reason, whether this was a way out of a legal rabbit hole or maybe they had dirt on Monahan or pure greed or whatever, the pivot is stunning. 

The statements from the 'leadership' about how this is for the greater good feels like salt rubbed into wounds. 

Welp, let's see what unfolds. I think Monahan is a loser that we suspect he is and there is not a meticulous master plan. Just a half ass cobbled up bluster of bullet points 

One thing I'm not getting is how this can happen in vacuum without a vote from the players. From reports they are just as shocked as the common fan.

Wow.

I do feel like the PGA Tour Players were stabbed in the back. 

For the ones who stuck by the tour, several turned down huge lumps of money. 

I'm waiting to see what unfolds. But when I first heard the news I felt like this has to be click-bait. 

[Rick Graham]

Great News, for all of golf get all the best players playing against each other, feel good for Greg Norman

[MSDOGS1976]

Dark day for the PGAT. I look forward to hearing from Tiger, Rory and the other big names that stuck with the tour and turned down LIV's money. 

[turtleback]

10 hours ago, eich41 said:

Literally GC right now "I just don't know why Monahan has done a 180 seemingly overnight?"

 

Hello, because it was NEVER his stance, it was just the only angle he had to attack a rival golf league so he took the stance and mandated the media minions to push it.  It's easy to do a complete 180 when you were really already facing the other direction....

Monahan pledged that he would be completely transparent, in his first presser as Tour Commissioner, and now I'm hearing that this has been the works for 7 weeks without any players knowing about.  I don't see how he survives.

Edited June 7, 2023 by turtleback

[turtleback]

6 hours ago, WillieT said:

Reading the discussion I am reminded of the conversations a good friend and I used to have regarding perspective.  He would set a glass in between us and ask the question “Can you see the entire glass?”  The obvious answer is no, as we cannot see in 360.  He would go on to say, that is why multiple views are necessary to get the entire view.  PGA, LIV, Euro/DP tours have their views of the same glass - professional golf.  We can only guess what each’s view really is. Our views are limited at best.  

For me, the only view that matter is mine.  

Unless Monahan and the DP tour guy actually have the authority to make this deal on their own say so, and it requires any kind of ratification by the players, I could see this whole thing blowing up.  And leaving an even bigger mess.  And, of course, there definitely will be be lawsuits.

[Moxley]

7 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I do feel like the PGA Tour Players were stabbed in the back. 

For the ones who stuck by the tour, several turned down huge lumps of money. 

I'm waiting to see what unfolds. But when I first heard the news I felt like this has to be click-bait. 

 

Stabbed in the back is one way of putting it, but I'd say played is more accurate , as this covers the entire episode.  From what I can see, the PGA Tour have played their members and their fans from the get-go to boost their leverage, and it's been the most successful plank to their strategy. This was always a commercial dispute between the Saudis and the other guys who were happy to take Saudi money but still wanted to run the show. Rather like FIFA/UEFA, they managed to convince people that it was some sort of moral fight between good and evil. I think a lot of people, good people perhaps like yourself, bought into this, and thought this was an important moral choice they could make to make the world better - I don't really agree with this for reasons I've posted before on this thread, but I share your sentiment for these folks, as wanting to make the world a better place is clearly a good motivation. 

 

5 hours ago, MSDOGS1976 said:

Dark day for the PGAT. I look forward to hearing from Tiger, Rory and the other big names that stuck with the tour and turned down LIV's money. 

 

However, some people, including those players, I suspect knew exactly what was going here and chose to make the stand they did for purposes of grandstanding. I do not feel sorry for Rory - he has had his payment in full, and will only benefit from his decision to bolster his reputation by dragging the sport through the mud for two years. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Moxley said:

I do not feel sorry for Rory - he has had his payment in full, and will only benefit from his decision to bolster his reputation by dragging the sport through the mud for two years. 

Rory did not “drag the sport through the mud for two years.”

That doesn’t even make sense.

[Moxley]

I'm devastated by that, but OK, I'll elaborate.

Rory contributed significantly to the bitter dispute that has engulfed golf for the past two years. He chose to help Monahan create and deepen the divide in Golf that was necessary for the PGAT to be able to hold out for better terms - without that, the dispute could have been over in 3 months or less. He did this, I suspect, as an opportunistic way to boost his own brand, evidence of which I can see here on this forum. As I say, he's had his payment in full.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Rory contributed significantly to the bitter dispute that has engulfed golf for the past two years.

Ha ha ha ha. Yeah, okay.

2 minutes ago, Moxley said:

He chose to help Monahan create and deepen the divide in Golf that was necessary for the PGAT to be able to hold out for better terms - without that, the dispute could have been over in 3 months or less. He did this, I suspect, as an opportunistic way to boost his own brand, evidence of which I can see here on this forum. As I say, he's had his payment in full.

Rory could have gotten $400M or something to go to LIV golf. He held out — and spoke his mind about LIV and the Saudi backers — and absolutely did not get "his payment."

Rory was repeatedly asked and interviewed. He answered honestly and with integrity while exhibiting more of a moral compass than many of those who were bought by the Saudi government. The person who chooses not to align himself with the bad element is not the one "dragging the sport through the mud." The person pointing out the hypocrisy is not the one doing the bad thing — the people doing the bad thing are the ones doing the dragging.

Congrats. You've made one of the dumbest non-swing-theory posts in TST history. :P