Your Perfect Course

[bkuehn1952]

We have heard from @snapfade about his layout.  If anyone would like to try their hand at describing their perfect course, have at it.  Every detail is not needed but the better the description, the better the rest of us can appreciate your ideas.  For my effort I tried to be realistic but there are no rules.

Here is my idea:

Ownership: I'd like an equity club where the players own the course.  No family memberships; if one wants their family to participate, everyone buys in.  The buy-in would be reasonable, hopefully something like $10,000 or less.  200 members, $2,000,000 might get us a course during a recession.  The course would also be open to the public, on a limited basis.  We don't want exclusivity to be an issue.  Every member would be expected to participate in the maintenance and running of the club.  No absentee owner/members.  If you don't play and participate in the running of the club, you resign.  Membership is open to any person who loves to play golf and hang out with other golfers.  The Board of Director slots (15) rotates among the membership with 2 Board members changing annually.  Major changes would be by vote of the membership.

The Layout: One 18 hole course because we can't afford to have more.  Ideally it would be like "The Loop" and we could reverse it but I suspect the cost would be an issue.  There would be a set of tees at 7,000+ yards but only members with indexes under an agreed amount (5.0??) and with the ability to play that distance would be allowed on the tips.  We would try to have a variety of tees and rated combinations to allow some variety the course set-up. The club would be located in SE Michigan (naturally) on rolling terrain with a nice mix of woodlands and grassland - a "parkland style".  While we would love to be on the shores of Lake Michigan or the Pacific, that would be too costly (and it would be a heck of a drive for me).  Definitely need some water (ponds, streams).  Sand bunkers would have to be a bit limited because of the cost.

The Facility: A simple clubhouse with a small bar selling cans of pop and beer. One may BYOB hard liquor or wine but we won't sell it.  Bagged snacks and a popcorn popper.  No food as we don't want to assume those costs. If we have an event, maybe invite a food truck or two to cater to the members.  No beverage carts as our members are serious about playing.  If you want a drink or two on the course, that is fine but you are going to carry it with you or get it at the turn.  No swimming pool, no tennis courts, no ballroom.  No equipment sales.  We would have a room fitted out for club repair with a  launch monitor.  Members would be free to use it and hopefully we could schedule a professional club fitter to stop by now and again.  There would be a grass range, practice green and practice bunker/chipping area.  Any members who are "range rats" would generally be assigned the practice area maintenance.

Other:  Walking would be encouraged but with a physician's note, members would be able to use our single rider carts.  We would have a list of people willing to caddie and members would arrange that on an as needed basis.  Trolleys permitted.  We would have several Club tournaments.  All would be flighted, some at scratch and others handicapped.  The Club Championship would involve every member (flighted) and be Match Play.  When a player became too old to play, they would be welcome to continue as "clubhouse staff" or starter. 

[dennyjones]

1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

We have heard from @snapfade about his layout.  If anyone would like to try their hand at describing their perfect course, have at it.  Every detail is not needed but the better the description, the better the rest of us can appreciate your ideas.  For my effort I tried to be realistic but there are no rules.

Here is my idea:

Ownership: I'd like an equity club where the players own the course.  No family memberships; if one wants their family to participate, everyone buys in.  The buy-in would be reasonable, hopefully something like $10,000 or less.  200 members, $2,000,000 might get us a course during a recession.  The course would also be open to the public, on a limited basis.  We don't want exclusivity to be an issue.  Every member would be expected to participate in the maintenance and running of the club.  No absentee owner/members.  If you don't play and participate in the running of the club, you resign.  Membership is open to any person who loves to play golf and hang out with other golfers.  The Board of Director slots (15) rotates among the membership with 2 Board members changing annually.  Major changes would be by vote of the membership.

The Layout: One 18 hole course because we can't afford to have more.  Ideally it would be like "The Loop" and we could reverse it but I suspect the cost would be an issue.  There would be a set of tees at 7,000+ yards but only members with indexes under an agreed amount (5.0??) and with the ability to play that distance would be allowed on the tips.  We would try to have a variety of tees and rated combinations to allow some variety the course set-up. The club would be located in SE Michigan (naturally) on rolling terrain with a nice mix of woodlands and grassland - a "parkland style".  While we would love to be on the shores of Lake Michigan or the Pacific, that would be too costly (and it would be a heck of a drive for me).  Definitely need some water (ponds, streams).  Sand bunkers would have to be a bit limited because of the cost.

The Facility: A simple clubhouse with a small bar selling cans of pop and beer. One may BYOB hard liquor or wine but we won't sell it.  Bagged snacks and a popcorn popper.  No food as we don't want to assume those costs. If we have an event, maybe invite a food truck or two to cater to the members.  No beverage carts as our members are serious about playing.  If you want a drink or two on the course, that is fine but you are going to carry it with you or get it at the turn.  No swimming pool, no tennis courts, no ballroom.  No equipment sales.  We would have a room fitted out for club repair with a  launch monitor.  Members would be free to use it and hopefully we could schedule a professional club fitter to stop by now and again.  There would be a grass range, practice green and practice bunker/chipping area.  Any members who are "range rats" would generally be assigned the practice area maintenance.

Other:  Walking would be encouraged but with a physician's note, members would be able to use our single rider carts.  We would have a list of people willing to caddie and members would arrange that on an as needed basis.  Trolleys permitted.  We would have several Club tournaments.  All would be flighted, some at scratch and others handicapped.  The Club Championship would involve every member (flighted) and be Match Play.  When a player became too old to play, they would be welcome to continue as "clubhouse staff" or starter. 

I like your idea except for the expected to participate in maintenance.   I realize it's a cost saving idea but time (when not quarantined) is limited and I'd rather play than work.   I've done my share of work, that's why I retired.

Your concepts are well thought out.  Very cool.

 

[bkuehn1952]

19 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

I like your idea except for the expected to participate in maintenance.   I realize it's a cost saving idea but time (when not quarantined) is limited and I'd rather play than work.  

Yes, that could be an issue.  I was not planning to have everyone working every day.  More like Denny tends bar one afternoon a week, or Brian cuts the back nine greens one morning every week.  200 / 7 = 28 members available a day.  14 in the morning and 14 in the afternoon.  As part of our dues, we would have some professionals (e.g. Course Greenkeeper).  Dues would be determined by the net expense divided by the membership.  Would this work?   Probably not but it could be interesting to try.

[HJJ003]

Ill focus a bit more on the course for mine: 

Land: To me, a truly great Course is most often on a great piece of land. For me, in order for me to see it is as "perfect" it would need to be sand based soil, micro undulations rippling throughout the course (with a few macro undulations for good measure), and some great scenery (mountains, ocean, or something)

Holes: Variety is the spice of life. Total Par isn't as important to me, but I guess a fairly normal par 72 would be fine. I think the Par 4 holes are really what give any good course its backbone, and I would need everything from a Driver-Hybrid type of hole down to a really good risk reward drivable par 4. I prefer my holes to be more strategic than penal, but sometimes you have to hit a golf shot at the right time so perhaps one golf hole or so per 9 that is truly penal golf architecture. Par 3's are key to having a great course. In my perfect course I would have one that requires a hybrid or so off the tee, two mid iron type holes that favor different shot shapes, and one really good short par 3 where missing the green requires some astoundingly good short game skills to save Par. A golf course can really go wrong with its Par 5's (especially for the average Joe) so I would keep all of these holes pretty strategic. I would prefer at least one to be a three shot hole for generally everyone that would play it, and two that are reachable for the long hitters if they take on some more risk off the tee or maybe even on the second shot after a good drive. I would make one truly reachable for everyone, but make sure it does give everyone some risk to consider (Im thinking Great Hazard Template..)

Greens: I am a sucker for a great set of greens. I prefer my "perfect" set of greens to be very undulating but kept at reasonable green speeds for the slopes. I prefer shaved edges around the greens to challenge the better players more and to repel shots. This will mean the average player will often be able to use putter from well off the green. Greens would reward well played shots from the correct angles, but also be a fairly large in size on average to give a safe area of the green to target when the flag is tucked. 

Hazards: I would keep these more minimal than we see in a lot of modern golf course architecture, and I think I would prefer to rely more on bunkers than water hazards (unless natural). The hazards generally need to be playable, but definitely something a players wants to avoid if they want to score well. I do think a few hazards (especially on the ore accessible holes) would need need to be a bit more penal and really give the good players something to consider. 

Routing: This kind of falls in line with holes section above, but I would want the variety of golf holes spread out throughout the round, and for some reason would like a "Pete Dye Finish" (Risk-Reward Par 5, Short but Penal Par 3, and very strong challenging par 4). My perfect course would be routed in such a way to ensure that the best views are taken advantage of, and the wind is encountered from all directions. The course would be generally walking only (with special permission as necessary for carts)and therefore the green to tee transitions would be smooth, and the asks in between quite pleasant. Not really a "routing" feature per se, but I would prefer to have tee offerings ranging from 6800 max to just below 5000. 

Organization: Semi-private club. I like the model. 4-5 days a week where only member and their guests can play, and 2-3 days a week where if planned in advance a visitor can schedule a tee time. 

So now the only question I have is...who wants to put up the money for me to realize my dream? 🙂 

[dagolfer18]

My perfect course would be a really nice, affordable, private club. As the founders of my club, me and my immediate family would be the first members.

MEMBERSHIP: The initial membership fee wouldn’t be too bad, probably around $5,000, then a monthly fee of $175/month, in order to make it affordable for everybody. If anybody joining is family or friends to us, they would get a 10% discount on all fees, including merchandise and food/drink from the snack bar. A membership purchase immediately allows the new member access to all club events and features.

FACILITIES: My dream club would have a tennis court and a nice, spacious, two-story clubhouse. The tennis court would be open all year. The upper floor of the clubhouse would be reserved for dining and social events, while the lower floor is for golf carts, the pro shop and an indoor swimming pool, which would be free to use for all members.

GOLF: My dad and I would work together to design the two courses that will be on our property. The first would be an 18-hole par-70 championship course, where all tournaments are played. There will be five tee boxes: black, blue, white, green, and red. Only those who have a handicap of 3 or less would have access to the championship tees, which will be about 7000 yards. The other would be a nine-hole, par-30 executive course. On that course, no par-3 will exceed 150 yards, and no par-4 will exceed 320. Only a single tee box here. The green speeds will run at about 11 for the championship course (I love fast greens), and probably 8 for the executive layout.

TOURNAMENTS: My club will host probably one tournament a month. Most would be open to everybody, but I would give one to just low cappers, and one to high cappers. But my main tournament would be my Club Championships. Four flights based on handicap. Two rounds of qualifying, top 16 make it into matchplay. One day for each round. The final match will be thirty-six holes in the same day. Riding carts will be optional during this event. Optional but, due to how many consecutive days of play, highly recommended.
 

So there you have it, my dream club.

Edited March 26, 2020 by dagolfer18

[Bonvivant]

No carts, 3:30 rounds strictly enforced. Pretty much thats it. 

[phillyk]

I would be owner and GM. We would have a head pro governing the 18 hole championship course, banquet manager which can host up to 250 and chef for the restaurant. The course would actually be Eaglemont, which has, really, now permanently shut down. Plan is to win the powerball and purchase it. I’d be making quite a few changes to layout, but Its scenery is unparalleled. 

Course would be semi-private. $1500 a year gains you access to Tuesday, Wednesday, and Sundays with guest fees. You also get to play the other days. Guests pay normal rate those days though. Public can only play the other days. 

Restaurant will have a nice sports bar on one side and lounge on the other. Both relaxed atmospheres and pub/grill food. Next to lounge is a space for two full simulators  

Golf course, riding is highly encouraged. If you walk, you have one chance only to make it around in 4.5hrs. If you fail, you must ride. (There are a lot of hills and long-ish distance between holes). There will be two snack shacks, holes 7&13. There will be monthly tournaments, leagues, member contests.

For the Banquets, we will have a big well groomed wedding lawn, facing the mountains. Inside has the full double story high ceiling and chandeliers.

Most important to this plan is the relationship with the customer. As GM, I would have posted office hours and be available for customers to talk to. Suggestions, comments, concerns, anything would be welcome and answered. 

[Double Mocha Man]

12 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I would be owner and GM. We would have a head pro governing the 18 hole championship course, banquet manager which can host up to 250 and chef for the restaurant. The course would actually be Eaglemont, which has, really, now permanently shut down. Plan is to win the powerball and purchase it. I’d be making quite a few changes to layout, but Its scenery is unparalleled. 

Course would be semi-private. $1500 a year gains you access to Tuesday, Wednesday, and Sundays with guest fees. You also get to play the other days. Guests pay normal rate those days though. Public can only play the other days. 

Restaurant will have a nice sports bar on one side and lounge on the other. Both relaxed atmospheres and pub/grill food. Next to lounge is a space for two full simulators  

Golf course, riding is highly encouraged. If you walk, you have one chance only to make it around in 4.5hrs. If you fail, you must ride. (There are a lot of hills and long-ish distance between holes). There will be two snack shacks, holes 7&13. There will be monthly tournaments, leagues, member contests.

For the Banquets, we will have a big well groomed wedding lawn, facing the mountains. Inside has the full double story high ceiling and chandeliers.

Most important to this plan is the relationship with the customer. As GM, I would have posted office hours and be available for customers to talk to. Suggestions, comments, concerns, anything would be welcome and answered. 

Phil... hope you win the Powerball...

[Double Mocha Man]

Okay, I'd go with a semi-private club, with some topography, but not too much.  Walkable.  Trees, ponds, creeks, a few ocean holes.  Hosts a U.S. Open every decade or so.

The range and other practice facilities (available trackman units) within short distance of the locker room.

The clubhouse is old school architecture with a veranda overlooking the 18th green and 1st tee.  Inside it's somewhat quaint with a comfortable feeling.  The proshop and restaurant take up 1/3 of the space.  The bar/lounge occupies 2/3 of the space.  Priorities man!  Bar has pool tables (come on up David of FL) a tasty bar menu and a separate cigar lounge.

Everybody knows everybody, conviviality all around.  Tom Watson, Rickie Fowler and Justin Thomas hang out there on occasion.  Oh, and Tommy Fleetwood makes an appearance, too.  Everyone knows everyone by their first name.  Mr. Watson says, "How's it going James?  Were you successful at flattening your plane?"

Like Bandon Dunes and Chambers Bay, there are no power carts.  Walking only, unless you have a note from Vinsk.

Long winding drive up to clubhouse, putting Augusta National to shame.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Double Mocha Man

[PJCdude]

As I sit here in NYC trying to avoid all other people (non-family) it's nice to have something to imagine.

 

LOCATION: OK, I'm thinking big here...I'm taking over Governor's Island:

 

For those unaware, Governor's Island is a little island in NY harbor in between Manhattan, Brooklyn, Staten Island and NJ. This pic is pretty consistent with a map view (top=north). I did a quick thumb test and its slightly bigger than most neighboring golf courses on google maps.Any buildings will be demolished. Sorry guys.

FEES: This will be a Public Course! It will be pricey. At least 150 for 18 plus the ferry ride. However, to appeal to the common man, there will be a daily lottery (think broadway show tix) for 4 4somes at 20 bucks a person.

LAYOUT: Clubhouse will be on the North End. I want to make sure water is in play for slicers AND hookers so the 1st tee and the 10th tee will both be in the middle of the island facing south. As players make their way back north, the front nine on the west side will have water left and the back nine on the east side will have water right.

DESIGN: Being in the middle of the water, this will be very linksy. Not a ton of elevation but plenty of bunkers and meandering fairway widths to make it interesting. medium fast greens (10ish?), thick rough and a few collection areas to really test people's wedge play. It's not going to be super long since there will be plenty of challenges already so the Tips will be 6800. Regulation will be 6200 and front will be 5600. Par 72.

Par 4's will have a wide variety of lengths. At least one will be driveable with little challenge (270 from middle with just one greenside bunker), other will be only 300 from the middle but with a huge burranca bunker 225-250 from the tee so lay up is the play. Also a few that are around 400 from the middle.

Will definitely do a little digging to make mounds that separate each fairway. If we're a success, I'll put in floodlights and be the late night NYC golfing hot spot.

Par 3's will have one that is hybrid/fairway wood range inland , two that are middle irons (one inland, one on coast) and one that's 100 yds from all 3 tees on the windiest part of the property.

Par 5's will have similar theme as par 3's. One that is ultra long inland, think 580 from middle/600 from back. A shorter, reachable one inland about 460 from middle and two right around 500 on each coast.

 

[Buckeyebowman]

bk, I like your ideas a whole lot more than snapfade's! 

[snapfade]

12 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

bk, I like your ideas a whole lot more than snapfade's! 

I was just getting ready to offer you a complimentary membership.

[boogielicious]

14 hours ago, PJCdude said:

Par 3's will have one that is hybrid/fairway wood range inland , two that are middle irons (one inland, one on coast) and one that's 100 yds from all 3 tees on the windiest part of the property.

Have the short par 3 set up so the Statue of Liberty is framed over the green from the tee. And make it so if you go long, there’s trouble.

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay I'll take a shot at this. When I become King of the World. I'll have a golf course of my own. 

Ownership: Okay, that's me. 

The Layout: 

1. The set up will be (6) par 3's, (6) par 4's and (6) par 5's. Instead of the traditional (4) par 3's, (10) par 4's and (4) par 5's. …… Why? Because I like par 3's and par 5's. 
2. At least one of the par 3's, par 4's and par 5's will feature an island green. At least one more of each will feature a peninsula green. … Why? Because I like Island greens and peninsula greens.
3. The course will feature lots of elevation changes. The island green par 3 tee shot (110 to 155 yards depending which tee you play) will be struck from a plateau well above the level of the green. I think that's cool, plus if you should be lucky enough to hit a hole in one, you'll be able to see it from up there. 
4. It's not going to be a particularly long course. Maybe the longest tees are around 6800 yards. There will be a lot of water. Many fairways have water down the left or the right. 
5. I want a course where good shots are rewarded. If you are hitting it straight, I want you to be able to score well. Poor shots find the water.
6. Greens are not overly undulated. They are large and very fast. But fair. No goofy mini-golf style greens where if you miss the hole by a fraction it rolls all the way off the green and now you're chipping. 
7. The course will also be known for having "The best bunkers in the state". Bunkers should be fun, not frustrating because of their condition. Plus if you are a bad bunker player, I don't want to give you any excuses. 
8. Okay, here's the big challenge for whomever has to actually design this course for me. I want all those elevation changes. I want the big relatively flat, fast greens. I want all that water and island greens and peninsulas. I want all of that and yet..... The course has to be walkable. 

The Facility:

1. Food and drinks are available. I like bar food; Fish and chips, Great nacho plates, Wings and Rings, that kind of thing. 
2. The course also has a great practice area. Many folks will come just for the practice area. At least 2 practice greens, a chipping, pitching and sand practice green, a range with multiple distance targets which are clearly marked. 
3. You gotta have a outdoor pavilion with a large barbeque area. The outdoor pavilion should have a view of the 10th tee box and the 18th green. 
4. The course needs to have multiple beverage carts. 
5. None of our carts will be 2-person carts. We will encourage walking, but we'll also have Fynn Cycles available and single person carts for those who need them. Obviously, if you take a Fynn Cycle then no booze for you. 

Tournaments: 

1. My course will host multiple tournaments. The tournaments will be in multiple formats. One of my favorites is 2-person Ryder Cup format and/or Couples Ryder Cup format. 
2. My course will also host multiple high-school and junior tournaments. 
3. Since I'm King of the World in this scenario. Once a year my course will host a special high-school 2 person mixed gender (boy and girl) Ryder Cup tournament each year in which the winning pair receives full scholarships to the college of their choice. 

 

       

Edited March 27, 2020 by ChetlovesMer

[snapfade]

In the real world my perfect golf course would be a co-op. So you buy into it with a one time payment, then pay a fee when you play. At the end of the year everyone would get a check back from the profit off the club. Kind of like how REI does it. ( Google REI if you don't know what that is)  LEED's certified clubhouse, environmentally friendly fertilizers and pesticides if possible. I'd hire a the best greens keeper money could by and not promote the assistant course mechanic for the job. Walking would be encouraged, since the course is ocean side, you should enjoy the view. Carts would be electric with solar panels to keep them charged. The club house would have the basics, along with some logo'd items. Not sure if clubs would be sold. There would be a small place to enjoy a drink after the round but a full restaurant probably not. You come here to play golf, not play cards. No tennis courts, no pool, it's not Bushwood. Volunteers would work as marshals, driving range attendant and starter. Since it is a co-op, you are part owner of the course and one a-hole decision maker can't ruin it for everyone. There will be a GM, and a staff, but it's a course owned by and for the members. Overhead will be kept to a minimum since there is no restaurant and county club amenities, along with the use of solar power, and reclaimed water for the course and all the eco friendly stuff that I don't know too much about but will find the right person that does. As far as the course itself. Links style since it's ocean side, wind will be a factor, a few palm trees here and there, several sets of tees of course, and I would like it set up as a thinking mans golf course. A course where you have to use every club in the bag. Challenging, with several options on each hole with a lost of risk versus rewards options. But most of all it will be a club where you will feel welcome, treated as if they have known you for years. No A-holes, no attitudes, no one is going to judge you because you have a giant staff bag and dressed in Adidas head to toe and carry a 27.5 handicap. Or you wear suspenders with your golf shorts with your white socks pulled up to your knees. Who cares, we are here to play golf, not show off the latest fashion.We are all friends here. A golf course designed by, owned by, and ran by golfers. And I'll get the guy who does the artwork for Iron Maiden to make the club logo.

 

[Double Mocha Man]

50 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Have the short par 3 set up so the Statue of Liberty is framed over the green from the tee. And make it so if you go long, there’s trouble.

And have the Liberty Butual guy from the TV commercial be your starter.

[ChetlovesMer]

Oh, I forgot one thing about my course. Some of you may be wondering if I'd allow white belts on the course. As I am currently president of "The No White Belts for Men over 30 Society". (Btw - 30 is both an age and a waist size.)

Yes, of course I will allow white belts on my course. Having said that, however, if you are a male over 30 (either years old or waist size), I get to ridicule you when I see you in the club house. Of course, I also encourage you to ridicule me back because the chance is fair to better than average that I'll be wearing cargo shorts at the time. 

[CarlSpackler]

13 minutes ago, snapfade said:

I didn't know that Eddie played golf.

Just now, ChetlovesMer said:

Oh, I forgot one thing about my course. Some of you may be wondering if I'd allow white belts on the course. As I am currently president of "The No White Belts for Men over 30 Society". (Btw - 30 is both an age and a waist size.)

Yes, of course I will allow white belts on my course. Having said that, however, if you are a male over 30 (either years old or waist size), I get to ridicule you when I see you in the club house. Of course, I also encourage you to ridicule me back because the chance is fair to better than average that I'll be wearing cargo shorts at the time. 

White belts are less disturbing that no belts.