General COVID-19 Topic

[Yukari]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Moderna's COVID-19 Vaccine Heads to FDA for Emergency Use Authorization

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Moderna announced that it plans to submit its request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for an Emergency Use Authorization for its COVID-19...

 

Has there been a super-spreader type event that was held outside?

White House announcement for the next Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett.

Trump intro of nominee may have been ‘super-spreader’ event

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There is some speculation that the White House Rose Garden event honoring the president's Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett may...

 

[Double Mocha Man]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Moderna's COVID-19 Vaccine Heads to FDA for Emergency Use Authorization

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Moderna announced that it plans to submit its request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for an Emergency Use...

 

Has there been a super-spreader type event that was held outside?

If the air is still, stagnant, it doesn't matter if the event is indoors or outdoors.  I'd be interested in knowing the wind speed at this Troy, Ohio event.  I don't see anyone in the crowd tossing grass into the air.  Though it really doesn't matter... not too many people properly distancing from one another.  Good luck folks.

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If the air is still, stagnant, it doesn't matter if the event is indoors or outdoors.  I'd be interested in knowing the wind speed at this Troy, Ohio event.  I don't see anyone in the crowd tossing grass into the air.  Though it really doesn't matter... not too many people properly distancing from one another.  Good luck folks.

There is always a bit of breeze. Also air is not being reused and circulated inside a small area. Outside is generally safer. Though that is negated with so many people right next to each other. 

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If the air is still, stagnant, it doesn't matter if the event is indoors or outdoors.

Yeah, that's just not true.

And even if it were, I'm not talking about the Troy event, but just general outdoor events and activities, whether they be Turkey Trots with social distancing between runners or people watching the state finals of a football game from 5 seats away from the nearest other people.

Transmission rates are going to be lower, and I think much lower, outdoors than indoors.

Time to bone up on "Brownian Motion"?

[mcanadiens]

39 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If the air is still, stagnant, it doesn't matter if the event is indoors or outdoors.  I'd be interested in knowing the wind speed at this Troy, Ohio event.  I don't see anyone in the crowd tossing grass into the air.  Though it really doesn't matter... not too many people properly distancing from one another.  Good luck folks.

I don't remember it being particular windy that night. Covid doesn't keep me shut in the house, but crowds like that are insane indoors or outdoors. 

Definitely think I need to step up my social distancing if we got that much poor judgement around town.

[Double Mocha Man]

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, that's just not true.

And even if it were, I'm not talking about the Troy event, but just general outdoor events and activities, whether they be Turkey Trots with social distancing between runners or people watching the state finals of a football game from 5 seats away from the nearest other people.

Transmission rates are going to be lower, and I think much lower, outdoors than indoors.

Time to bone up on "Brownian Motion"?

Erik... you're a scientist.  Stagnant air is stagnant air, indoors or outdoors.  If the wind speed is zero you won't find me sitting near you, even at 6 feet.  Though 10 feet is my preferred distance.  (Disclaimer:  More often than not you won't find stagnant air outside, especially this time of year, so, in general it is always better to be outside, but there are exceptions.)

17 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

I don't remember it being particular windy that night. Covid doesn't keep me shut in the house, but crowds like that are insane indoors or outdoors. 

Definitely think I need to step up my social distancing if we got that much poor judgement around town.

Do what you need to do for the next 4-6 months.  Stay healthy.  Stay safe.  I want to be reading your posts for a long time to come.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Erik... you're a scientist.

I know a lot of science. Have a degree or two in science. Yes.

That’s why I said what I said above. But I don't call myself "a scientist." I understand science, apply science, but I don't work or spend a lot of my time doing what most would call "science."

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Stagnant air is stagnant air, indoors or outdoors. 

Not true.

The volume matters.

Imagine a still day (not that they ever really exist), and someone smoking. Would you rather be inside with them in a room or outside if you had to pick? Would you rather be inside a small room or a big one if you had to pick?

There's a sort of inverse square thing to this, too, that doesn't really work indoors because things can reflect back to you, but which does hold outdoors.

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If the wind speed is zero you won't find me sitting near you, even at 6 feet.  Though 10 feet is my preferred distance.

You’re the one putting numbers on this.

Let’s backtrack. I asked if there was any data on super spreader events insured versus outdoors.

That’s it.

Is being outside safer? Yes, absolutely. Even on those incredibly rare times when it's "stagnant."

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Imagine a still day (not that they ever really exist), and someone smoking. Would you rather be inside with them in a room or outside if you had to pick? Would you rather be inside a small room or a big one if you had to pick?

I think of it as two containers. Imagine dropping a blown out match into a small jar with a stopper. Then imagine dropping a small match onto a plate inside a home. The amount of smoke inside the bottle will greatly take over the volume of the bottle compared to that of a house. Luckily the earth has a huge atmosphere compared to a home. 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I think of it as two containers. Imagine dropping a blown out match into a small jar with a stopper. Then imagine dropping a small match onto a plate inside a home. The amount of smoke inside the bottle will greatly take over the volume of the bottle compared to that of a house. Luckily the earth has a huge atmosphere compared to a home. 

Yes, it's preposterous to think that, even on a "stagnant" day, that being inside is the same as being outside.

I've not claimed that one is "completely safe" and the other is not. I'm only asking for information, data, about super-spreader events and their environments.

You can get COVID-19 being 30 feet away from someone for 90 minutes… indoors. I don't think the odds of you getting it being 30 feet away from someone for 90 minutes outdoors is very high at all, stagnant or not.

[Double Mocha Man]

If it's a choice between outside stagnant air vs. inside air with ventilation that moves the air out of the room I'll take the latter (as long as I'm not sitting in a position where the air is drawn past me).  Everything else being equal.

 

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If it's a choice between outside stagnant air vs. inside air with ventilation that moves the air out of the room I'll take the latter (as long as I'm not sitting in a position where the air is drawn past me).  Everything else being equal.

 

How many places have that? I heard businesses had to retrofit their systems to install filters an UV lights to help with not having virus circulated air go through their systems. A lot of places just re-circulate the same air. 

Everything else is not equal. 100'x100' room is not the same as being outside. That is just absurd. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

How many places have that? I heard businesses had to retrofit their systems to install filters an UV lights to help with not having virus circulated air go through their systems. A lot of places just re-circulate the same air. 

Everything else is not equal. 100'x100' room is not the same as being outside. That is just absurd. 

During these times I would never occupy an indoor public space where the air was recirculated.  A 100' X 100' space with "dead", totally non-moving, purely stagnant air is the same thing whether it's indoors, outdoors or on the moon.  Perhaps I'm setting up a situation that doesn't actually exist in reality.  Just hypothesizing.  With some devil's advocate thrown in.

[iacas]

41 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If it's a choice between outside stagnant air vs. inside air with ventilation that moves the air out of the room I'll take the latter (as long as I'm not sitting in a position where the air is drawn past me).  Everything else being equal.

Yeah, c'mon man, that's just dumb. Hell, some of the earlier outbreaks were caused by ventilation, which would move the air from one table past a bunch of other tables before getting to the vent.

38 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

How many places have that? I heard businesses had to retrofit their systems to install filters an UV lights to help with not having virus circulated air go through their systems. A lot of places just re-circulate the same air. 

Everything else is not equal. 100'x100' room is not the same as being outside. That is just absurd. 

Yup.

32 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

A 100' X 100' space with "dead", totally non-moving, purely stagnant air is the same thing whether it's indoors, outdoors or on the moon.

No it isn't. And what are you doing that you and some infected person aren't "moving" the air around. You're standing perfectly still? Even your breaths aren't causing any sort of movement of the air? You're not moving from place to place?

And the air is always moving. I said "Brownian movement" before. Look it up or something.

There's no such thing as a "100' x 100' space outdoors.

[djake]

On 11/26/2020 at 10:41 AM, Ole Duffer said:

Well, one of us probably feels better now.

Sorry your guy lost . . . that hurts for awhile.

Happy Thanksgiving.

😷

Since we're running all around, topic-wise, anyone else sense a Steelers/Chiefs showdown?

If the Chiefs played the first 58 minutes like they play the last 2, no one could touch them.

This season may well come down to who can play and who can't.

Who says "My guy lost"?  

I don't get upset over Presidential elections and feel as I stated, this is a States Rights issue and it is up to the Governors' of each State to set what should or should not be done regarding COVID. 

Any President - REGARDLESS of political party - is 1,000,000% outside of their Constitutional Right to force any type of power over the people.  It will get struck down in the Supreme Court and THAT would DRASTICALLY limit Congress in moving new laws or each State's Governor to set and enforce any regulations.  

You need to understand the Constitution or at least understand The Power of The People in getting the Constitution upheld.

The President does not have the authority to place a National Interstate Travel Ban on US Citizens and the President does not have the authority to place a National Mask Mandate on US Citizens.  

I hope you had a great Thanksgiving, I traveled to another state by plane, ate in a restaurant, played golf, went to a Wedding and had an exhausting Thanksgiving weekend. 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

During these times I would never occupy an indoor public space where the air was recirculated.

Just curious, but I want to know how you can tell what kind of HVAC system a building has so as to avoid such spaces?

Lots of people don’t even know how the HVAC system works in the building they’ve been working in for over 20 years.

[djake]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

During these times I would never occupy an indoor public space where the air was recirculated.  A 100' X 100' space with "dead", totally non-moving, purely stagnant air is the same thing whether it's indoors, outdoors or on the moon.  Perhaps I'm setting up a situation that doesn't actually exist in reality.  Just hypothesizing.  With some devil's advocate thrown in.

Then you shouldn't go into a hospital.  They recirculate air and pretty much always have been, same with airplanes.  But I trust their air filtration systems.

I am not worried about being on an airplane or in a hospital and have been since March 11th, those were NYC then and I have been multiple hospitals in So Cal as well.

I mask up and wash my hands constantly but then again since I have been working in hospitals all over the country for years I always watch touch points and wash non stop.  

There are a lot more scary bugs you can catch in a hospital then COVID.  That doesn't mean I have a cavalier attitude towards COVID, I respect this virus and I tell people before I see them when and where I have been so they can tell me if we should stay apart or not.  I am very clear that I respect their decision either way.  

I spent most of the summer away from my 82 year old Mother and my 80 year old in-laws.  Just because of travel for work.

[Double Mocha Man]

17 minutes ago, billchao said:

Just curious, but I want to know how you can tell what kind of HVAC system a building has so as to avoid such spaces?

Lots of people don’t even know how the HVAC system works in the building they’ve been working in for over 20 years.

I ask.  Though I rarely go into indoor public spaces these days. And if I ask the employee rarely knows about the air system.  They just look at me funny.

[Ole Duffer]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

Moderna's COVID-19 Vaccine Heads to FDA for Emergency Use Authorization

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Moderna announced that it plans to submit its request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for an Emergency Use Authorization for its COVID-19 vaccine, mRNA-1273.

 

Has there been a super-spreader type event that was held outside?

Has there been a super-spreader type event that was held outside?

I'm assuming that's tongue-in-cheek, that no one really questions whether those have occurred.

But, anyway . . .

Of course there's been a lot of outside Super Spreader events, like the Harley Rally in Spearfish, football games, college parties, weddings and social gatherings, Mega-Church events, protests, the Memorial Day and 4th of July pool parties at Lake of the Ozarks, and, God forbid I say it, Trump rallies. The South Dakota events and the LOTO pool parties spread it widely throughout the Midwest.

And lets not forget that event on the South Lawn introducing Amy Coney Barrett . . . and other White House events.

Feel free to add to the list.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Ole Duffer