Biggest Swing Keys in Your Opinion?

[Nick_wahl_]

Alright, so in your opinion, what are the best swing thoughts / feelings for each phase of the swing that you feel actually engage the correct muscles and encourage good sequencing. One for the backswing, downswing, and follow through. 

I think that there are 100s of ways to think about a particular desired move but that only a few will engage the proper body parts to actually improve a golf swing rather than give a false appearance of improvement. 
 

Ive been working on my swing for 10 years and went through 1000s of swing feels. I was always able to make my swing “look” better but never work better.  It wasn’t until I got the right feel that engaged the right muscles that everything changed and started to feel way easier. 
For me it was all about my backswing and ensuring that my body coiled correctly and shoulders rotated steep enough. From there my downswing takes care of it self. I felt like my left shoulder works very low by thinking keep my left shoulder OFF of my chin. This made me turn way steeper and coil better. Swing speed jumped 8mph with driver and accuracy is WAY better. 
So I’m curious what are some keys that you found that changed your game for the better? 

.

 

 

[boogielicious]

For me it was finally understanding the 5 Simple Keys, then using video and good instruction, develop feels that matched good mechanics.

Video is a huge component to that for me. What I think I feel and reality are often different. So video helps me dial this in. I also used mirrors a lot. 

Feels are very individual. Good mechanics to match are key.

[CarlSpackler]

21 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

For me it was finally understanding the 5 Simple Keys, then using video and good instruction, develop feels that matched good mechanics.
 

Video is a huge component to that for me. What I think I feel and reality are often different. So video helps me dial this in. I also used mirrors a lot. 
 

Feels are very individual. Good mechanics to match are key.

^^^ This ^^^
I would add that grip, stance, and posture build a foundation to it. 

[saevel25]

6 hours ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

Alright, so in your opinion, what are the best swing thoughts / feelings for each phase of the swing that you feel actually engage the correct muscles and encourage good sequencing. One for the backswing, downswing, and follow through. 

The ones that work best for you. which means you need some self investigation on which swing feels work best.

Also, sometimes swing feels can be counter intuitive, but then still work.

For me, I’m doing nothing I did two years ago now because my swing changed to the point I didn’t need the swing feels I had to play golf well. 

[colin007]

Literally? Swing hard in case I hit it.

[Slim_Pivot]

4 hours ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

Alright, so in your opinion, what are the best swing thoughts / feelings for each phase of the swing that you feel actually engage the correct muscles and encourage good sequencing. One for the backswing, downswing, and follow through. 

I’ll give it a go!

Disclaimer. A lot of these are feelings. I don’t want to type “feels as if...” every line. It would be hard to read.

Backswing.

• In the takeaway, shifting into my trail hip. 
• As the backswing continues. The un-weighting of my lead foot. I’m not picking it up off the ground. But as it unweights, transition becomes dynamic.
• Obviously the steep shoulder turn. Lead side feels crunched when I turn steep enough.

Downswing

• As mentioned above, the planting into my lead foot. My weight goes into my lead side
• bowing my wrist to square the face

Impact / follow through 

• the stretching of my lead side. To me it feels more up, my body moves around pretty good.

[NJpatbee]

If I don't overdo the backswing my chances of a good swing increase greatly.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

Alright, so in your opinion, what are the best swing thoughts / feelings for each phase of the swing that you feel actually engage the correct muscles and encourage good sequencing. One for the backswing, downswing, and follow through.

Everyone's going to have their own list, of course, and they should. And, even if someone is working on the same thing day to day or week to week, the feel may change in that time, too, while still producing the same mechanics.

6 hours ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

I think that there are 100s of ways to think about a particular desired move but that only a few will engage the proper body parts to actually improve a golf swing rather than give a false appearance of improvement.

There are not 100s of ways to feel everything in the golf swing. Sometimes there aren't ten. And sometimes, to produce the exact same change in someone, the "feels" are the opposite from one student to the next; I've had it happen.

If you're up for a challenge, please give me only 20 feels that correct a golfer whose wrists sag at the end of the backswing, not because of poor sequencing, over-running arms, or any other problems, but simply because they think they're supposed to get a small angle between their lead arm and their shaft so they just hinge/fold/whatever their wrists like crazy.

If you make it to ten (with legitimate feels that address only that issue), I'll be surprised. Remember, the wrists aren't doing that for any other reason - they're just sagging on their own, because the guy thinks that's what they should do.

6 hours ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

I was always able to make my swing “look” better but never work better.

You're the one saying it "looked" better, though. I rejected your example in the other discussion as a swing that would "look" better.

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FWIW, people with "member swing" topics will often post and share their own swing feels or thoughts or drills in their respective topics. If you want a bigger list, read through some of them.

[Double Mocha Man]

3 hours ago, boogielicious said:

For me it was finally understanding the 5 Simple Keys, then using video and good instruction, develop feels that matched good mechanics.

Video is a huge component to that for me. What I think I feel and reality are often different. So video helps me dial this in. I also used mirrors a lot. 

Feels are very individual. Good mechanics to match are key.

"I also used mirrors a lot. "

Use any smoke to go with those mirrors?

2 hours ago, Slim_Pivot said:

I’ll give it a go!

Disclaimer. A lot of these are feelings. I don’t want to type “feels as if...” every line. It would be hard to read.

Backswing.

• In the takeaway, shifting into my trail hip. 
• As the backswing continues. The un-weighting of my lead foot. I’m not picking it up off the ground. But as it unweights, transition becomes dynamic.
• Obviously the steep shoulder turn. Lead side feels crunched when I turn steep enough.

Downswing

• As mentioned above, the planting into my lead foot. My weight goes into my lead side
• bowing my wrist to square the face

Impact / follow through 

• the stretching of my lead side. To me it feels more up, my body moves around pretty good.

You think of all that in under 1.5 seconds?!  Or is your swing 22 seconds long, which is the time it took me to read that?

[Slim_Pivot]

51 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

You think of all that in under 1.5 seconds?!  Or is your swing 22 seconds long, which is the time it took me to read that?

He asked for the info at all points in the swing, not what I’m doing now.

I gave him the feels from when I work on each part.

[billchao]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

You think of all that in under 1.5 seconds?!

Don’t you?

If you can’t, you might want to get your processor upgraded 😜

[Double Mocha Man]

16 minutes ago, billchao said:

Don’t you?

If you can’t, you might want to get your processor upgraded 😜

Funny!  😆  Not sure if it would help, I'm out of memory.  And there's a virus lurking about.

[Nick_wahl_]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:41 AM, saevel25 said:

The ones that work best for you. which means you need some self investigation on which swing feels work best.

Yes absolutely. 

On 4/4/2020 at 5:41 AM, saevel25 said:

Also, sometimes swing feels can be counter intuitive, but then still work.

For me, I’m doing nothing I did two years ago now because my swing changed to the point I didn’t need the swing feels I had to play golf well. 

That sounds like progress 👍🏼

[Nick_wahl_]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

Everyone's going to have their own list, of course, and they should. And, even if someone is working on the same thing day to day or week to week, the feel may change in that time, too, while still producing the same mechanics.

I agree. If I have a feel that works for me I typically start over doing it after a while and have to have a slight variation in it. 

Quote

There are not 100s of ways to feel everything in the golf swing. Sometimes there aren't ten. And sometimes, to produce the exact same change in someone, the "feels" are the opposite from one student to the next; I've had it happen.

It was more of a hyperbole. 

Quote

If you're up for a challenge, please give me only 20 feels that correct a golfer whose wrists sag at the end of the backswing, not because of poor sequencing, over-running arms, or any other problems, but simply because they think they're supposed to get a small angle between their lead arm and their shaft so they just hinge/fold/whatever their wrists like crazy.

Again, it was a hyperbole to emphasize how lost a golfer can get in  how many Variations in swing thoughts they come up with to try and fix a flaw. 
I would say for this that you can employ a direct emphasis by simply thinking about not hinging or indirect thoughts. I think the best Thought would be to feel like your trail palm is putting some pressure your lead hand throughout the backswing. Keeps swing very wide and limits their ability to hinge. 

Quote

If you make it to ten (with legitimate feels that address only that issue), I'll be surprised. Remember, the wrists aren't doing that for any other reason - they're just sagging on their own, because the guy thinks that's what they should do.

You're the one saying it "looked" better, though. I rejected your example in the other discussion as a swing that would "look" better.

I’m realizing I need to be way more specific on TPT so my fault. An example of when I say “looked” better but doesn’t make it better in my own swing is this. I used to get the club flat and laid off a good bit at the top. When I looked at my own swing all I would see is that and every instructor would tell me to get it more upright on the backswing etc... So I did that by focusing on being more upright. What we all missed was that that problem derived because my shoulder turn was way too flat. So what I ended up with is a flat shoulder turn and a steep  club plane because I was forcing the steep path but never went to the root cause of the flat shoulders. 
Therefore, although to the untrained eye my backswing would have looked pretty good, it wasn’t. 

I can tell your extremely knowledgeable so I’d like to ask you what some of the best ways are to achieve a steeper shoulder plane to the top of the swing? 
 

Quote

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FWIW, people with "member swing" topics will often post and share their own swing feels or thoughts or drills in their respective topics. If you want a bigger list, read through some of them.

Thanks. I’ve been reading through a ton of content on the site. I Definitely enjoy it. 
 

[billchao]

34 minutes ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

An example of when I say “looked” better but doesn’t make it better in my own swing is this. I used to get the club flat and laid off a good bit at the top. When I looked at my own swing all I would see is that and every instructor would tell me to get it more upright on the backswing etc... So I did that by focusing on being more upright. What we all missed was that that problem derived because my shoulder turn was way too flat. So what I ended up with is a flat shoulder turn and a steep  club plane because I was forcing the steep path but never went to the root cause of the flat shoulders. 

I'll make the argument that a flat shoulder turn with a laid off club at the top doesn't "look" better. If you and your instructor missed it, it suggests that you guys were looking at the wrong things to begin with.

You can absolutely use flawed body movements and still get the club on plane, and even play good golf doing it. They're still compensations. Some people are better at performing them consistently than others.

41 minutes ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

I can tell your extremely knowledgeable so I’d like to ask you what some of the best ways are to achieve a steeper shoulder plane to the top of the swing? 

This was Day 2 in our COVID-19 Practice Plan Challenge:

 

[Nick_wahl_]

9 minutes ago, billchao said:

I'll make the argument that a flat shoulder turn with a laid off club at the top doesn't "look" better. If you and your instructor missed it, it suggests that you guys were looking at the wrong things to begin with.

I think you misread what I said. I went from having a flat shoulder turn and a laid off club to a flat shoulder turn and the club on plane. The club being on plane looked better but Still had the flat shoulder turn which was the cause in the first place. 

9 minutes ago, billchao said:

You can absolutely use flawed body movements and still get the club on plane, and even play good golf doing it. They're still compensations. Some people are better at performing them consistently than others.

This was Day 2 in our COVID-19 Practice Plan Challenge:

 

Thank you! 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

It was more of a hyperbole.

Okay. Maybe let's not do that though.

1 hour ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

I would say for this that you can employ a direct emphasis by simply thinking about not hinging or indirect thoughts. I think the best Thought would be to feel like your trail palm is putting some pressure your lead hand throughout the backswing. Keeps swing very wide and limits their ability to hinge.

Right, so one or two, not hundreds. Let's just save the massive exaggerations.

1 hour ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

I’m realizing I need to be way more specific on TPT so my fault. An example of when I say “looked” better but doesn’t make it better in my own swing is this. I used to get the club flat and laid off a good bit at the top. When I looked at my own swing all I would see is that and every instructor would tell me to get it more upright on the backswing etc... So I did that by focusing on being more upright. What we all missed was that that problem derived because my shoulder turn was way too flat.

Then you guys missed it. It doesn't mean the swing "looked better."

1 hour ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

I can tell your extremely knowledgeable so I’d like to ask you what some of the best ways are to achieve a steeper shoulder plane to the top of the swing?

Big fans of keeping things on topic here, so… I'll only say that there are a few feels that tend to work, but as always, it's pretty dependent on the player.

Plus, as mentioned, Day 2 shows a few ways. 😉

[billchao]

10 minutes ago, Nick_wahl_ said:

I think you misread what I said. I went from having a flat shoulder turn and a laid off club to a flat shoulder turn and the club on plane. The club being on plane looked better but Still had the flat shoulder turn which was the cause in the first place.

Sorry, I responded quickly and didn’t fully articulate what I meant.

Going from a flat turn and laid off to a flat turn with a different arm angle to get the club on plane doesn’t look better, it just looks different. It doesn’t address the underlying issue, as you pointed out.

“Looking better,” IMO, would be the club getting on plane because the shoulder tilt was correct. It’s not just about getting the club on plane. Function matters.