Playing From the Wrong (Too Long) Tees?

[Double Mocha Man]

7 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

I liken them to the people in grocery stores who block an entire isle with their cart while looking for something - just complete lack of awareness to certain behaviors.

Don't forget the person in line right in front of you at the grocery store.  They spend 5 minutes going through their purse looking for change so they can have exact change.  Oftentimes it's a whole bunch of pennies, which they have to count twice.  Similar to the golfer who is not ready with tees or ball markers... so you have to wait while they rummage through different pockets in their golf bag.

[mcanadiens]

I get to do a little sample of this very thing this weekend with a quota game.

Over the years I've probably played this particular course (Community Hills, Dayton, OH) a dozen times and its always been from the white tees at 5,877. For the quota game, however, I'll have to play from the blues at 6,304. I know that still sounds short, but the course isn't particularly easy for someone at my level.

Since yupping myself into this, I've been trying to picture the holes and the types of shots I'll need. 

@Bonvivant, what sort of differential have you experienced between white and blue or do you just always play blue anyway?

[rvanculin]

@iacas, that was a very long refute when we are 99% agreeing. I'm merely say there are very rare situations where you really should move up a tee. Ballyhack, for me, from the Big Lick tees, was that situation. There was literally a hole where I had a 4-iron that should have been a 9-iron, but I couldn't get my drive to the downslope in the fairway. That's getting into minutia, though.

Also, I once played with a father and son who were both bogey golfers, and let their egos talk them into playing the 7,000 yard tees on a course we'd never seen. It was a huge mistake. 

 

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, rvanculin said:

@iacas, that was a very long refute

You don't know me very well if you think that's a "long" one. The pictures made it "longer" for sure, but it wasn't much typing. Also, I type quickly.

13 minutes ago, rvanculin said:

I'm merely say there are very rare situations where you really should move up a tee.

I said the same thing. The situation you described was less than a half-shot different, and it stands out because it was rare.

13 minutes ago, rvanculin said:

Also, I once played with a father and son who were both bogey golfers, and let their egos talk them into playing the 7,000 yard tees on a course we'd never seen. It was a huge mistake. 

Sure, and again:

15 hours ago, iacas said:

And for every one of those types of "examples" someone can provide a counter-example. One-off examples — from either side — are pretty pointless IMO in this type of context.

And… that's all pretty beside the point — that stuff is factual, it's math… it shouldn't have gone beyond one post. My main contention is that most people play the proper tees for them most of the time. People playing "the tips" when they have no business doing so is a much smaller problem now than it was in the 80s and 90s when golf had this sort of macho "I want a course to beat me up" type of thing going on.

[Bonvivant]

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

 

@Bonvivant, what sort of differential have you experienced between white and blue or do you just always play blue anyway?

Typically I play the white tees on hills and alternate between white and blue on dales. I have been shooting rounds between 87-97 from the whites on hills as of late. I don't expect to break 90 from the blues, but I think that low 90s is achievable and plan on breaking 100 for sure. I'd say its probably a 3-5 shot swing between white and blues for me, but some of that is because I don't know the distances as well for the par 3s, especially since some of the tees are tiered (5 and 11 in particular). There are plenty of holes where I have to hit 4-5 iron in after drive from the whites, and the difference of the blues may put me into the hybrid/wood range, but honestly from 170-240 yards I expect to be in the hole in 4 strokes anyway so there isn't much of a difference on how I feel about those two positions. I think that the game on Saturday will be tough for me, but fun. If I get my points I will be surprised.

A small edit*

The holes where the tees hurt me the most are ones that have a tree line on the right side that widens once you get to 180-200 yards from the whites. From the blues, the tree lines are always in play for a shot that misses right. Off the top of my head, 6 (the uphill par 5) and 15 (downhill par 4) are the biggest culprits for this, and to a lesser extent hole 13. If my shot gets or starts farther right than normal, I'm in danger of a lost ball situation, which is 2 strokes)

Edited May 20, 2020 by Bonvivant

[mcanadiens]

23 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

From the blues, the tree lines are always in play for a shot that misses right.

That's a classic Hills problem that I have from the whites with my lack of distance. ...  I've been messing around with some set-up stuff to take the big miss to the right out of play. It still isn't going far, but I've been keeping more drives on the property anyway. 

Guess it will be a test. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by mcanadiens

[cooke119]

On 5/18/2020 at 7:47 PM, billchao said:

Somebody told me about a league they’re playing in that limits tees by age, too. Didn’t make any sense to me. I know 20 year old guys who play off 19 that can’t drive the ball 220 and they have to play from the longer tees, but the 65 year old 5 handicap plays from the shorter ones.

Believe me, in my league we do not have any 5 handicappers, (LOL). Most can barely drive the ball 200 yards and usually into the trees or the rough. We're all old retired guys and gals but we're there to have fun but at the same time don't want to hold anyone else up so we play it forward. We also play a best ball scramble, again not to hold anyone else up. A lot of beer is consumed along with one guy who actually smokes pot while we play, (and he is still one of the better players).

We each kick in $10 each round, there are like 50 people playing, a little of the money goes to first, second place and closes to the pin on the par three. The balance of the money goes to a homeless shelter.

Like it said we're there for the fun and companionship. We play courses all over Long Island, NY because we want to support all the local clubs as well. We spend a lot of money at the 19th hole.

[Double Mocha Man]

33 minutes ago, cooke119 said:

Believe me, in my league we do not have any 5 handicappers, (LOL). Most can barely drive the ball 200 yards and usually into the trees or the rough. We're all old retired guys and gals but we're there to have fun but at the same time don't want to hold anyone else up so we play it forward. We also play a best ball scramble, again not to hold anyone else up. A lot of beer is consumed along with one guy who actually smokes pot while we play, (and he is still one of the better players).

We each kick in $10 each round, there are like 50 people playing, a little of the money goes to first, second place and closes to the pin on the par three. The balance of the money goes to a homeless shelter.

Like it said we're there for the fun and companionship. We play courses all over Long Island, NY because we want to support all the local clubs as well. We spend a lot of money at the 19th hole.

Hope you guys all take a bus or Uber home...

[JGus]

Ok, series question about the 'right' tee box to play from, as I said in an earlier post I don't usually look at the yardage to determine where to play from.  Based on the Driver Carry Distance Formula chart that @iacas posted, I'll place myself in the Purple category based on the driver distance (225 carry), but comparing other club distances in the chart I can cross over into the Red category, but not based on driver carry distance.

So based on the Purple category and the notes, I should be playing around 6276 yards.

My course just added the Gold tees (tips) to the course, which have been on the scorecard a few years now, but have now finally made it to the course itself.

Gold (6751), Blue (6416), and White (6123).

I usually play either Blue or White depending on who I am playing with, but mostly have played White in the past.  So looking at it from the driving holes, here's the breakout of driver vs fairway woods from the tee:

White:  Driver - 5; 3 Wood - 5; 5 Wood - 4;  Par 5's, all reachable

Blue:  Driver - 8-9; 3 Wood - 4-6; 5 Wood - 2-4;  Par 5's, maybe 2 are reachable with solid drives and 2nd shots.

I played the Blue's yesterday and shot an 84, and played the Whites on Saturday and shot a 79.  So maybe it just comes down to if I want to challenge myself more from the Blue's or take it a little easier on the White's?

[phan52]

We were playing Lahinch about 7-8 years ago. We were about third in line to play. A group was on the tee and the tips tee box was right in the middle of the first tee and the one everyone should play was a little forward. The group on the tee went to the tips tee box and the first two players hit horrendous shots. The starter walked onto the tee and instructed the players to go to the forward tee and to play that tee box throughout the round or they would be asked to leave the course. They still held up everyone anyway and the rangers made them skip a hole at one point.

Edited May 22, 2020 by phan52

[Pretzel]

Now that my golf game has declined some from lack of practice I'm probably playing at a level between a 5 and a 10 handicap nowadays (10 at the start of the season, down to a 5 by the end). By measure of handicap I'm probably playing the wrong tees according to many.

That said, I do this because I play tees based on a suitable course length for my driving distance. According to GAME Golf my typical drive is 308 yards, and based on the USGA and PGA's Tee it Forward chart I should be playing tees with an overall length between 7,150-7,400 yards. That translates to the tips for most courses, and on the one course I "regularly" play that's longer (TPC Colorado) I still play the tips because it's fun to compare my game to the pros I watched while scoring at the Korn Ferry Tour event there. Playing longer tees, even though I score worse, gives me a better experience on the course. My tee shots end up in the designed area, and the intended challenges of the golf course are still in play.

I also play in a golf league through my work that uses tees with a yardage of 6,308 yards and the golf itself isn't as fun because I'm playing tees that were designed for someone who hits the ball substantially shorter than I do. My longest approach shot on any par 4, barring an exceptionally poor tee shot, is a sand wedge. The longest par 3 is a pitching wedge. The longest second shot on a par 5 with a decent tee shot is still only a 6 iron, and the short par 5's play longer than the long par 5's because I can easily cut the doglegs on the longer holes. There are two par 4's where I have to club down on the tee to avoid waiting for the green to clear, and four more par 4's where I have hit the green with my tee shot at least once in the past 5 years. Playing courses that are too short is still nice because you're golfing, but it takes a lot of the challenge and fun out of it.

Ultimately I think the Tee it Forward campaign has a good set of recommendations for the length of course a player should play, based only on driving distance. Handicap shouldn't matter so long as you know the distance of your typical drive, since that's what determines if a course feels long or short in the first place. The main issue is just the fact that most golfers believe they hit the ball further than they actually do.

[ChetlovesMer]

3 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

By measure of handicap I'm probably playing the wrong tees according to many.

I've never worried about what tee others play from. As long as they keep pace, it doesn't matter to me. 

4 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Playing courses that are too short is still nice because you're golfing, but it takes a lot of the challenge and fun out of it.

I would say this depends on the design of the course, but as a rule you are correct.

5 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

 The main issue is just the fact that most golfers believe they hit the ball further than they actually do.

Are there any threads on this forum that cover this topic? ….. JK

[DaveP043]

18 minutes ago, phan52 said:

We were playing Lahinch about 7-8 years ago. We were about third in line to play. A group was on the tee and the tips tee box was right in the middle of the first tee and the one everyone should play was a little forward. The group on the tee went to the tips tee box and the first two players hit horrendous shots. The starter walked onto the tee and instructed the players to go to the forward tee and to play that tee box throughout the round or they would be asked to leave the course. They still held up everyone anyway and the rangers made them skip a hole at one point.

My experience in both Scotland and Ireland was that almost all visitors were directed to play from a specific set of tees, regardless of skill level.  In most cases that I can remember, there wasn't a huge distance between the available tees.  One friend who strongly prefers to play forward tees was told in no uncertain terms that he was not permitted to move to a forward set, he had to play off of the normal men's tees.

I'll say that my personal experience is that most people, when playing near home, tend to play tees that are reasonably appropriate.  Some of those same people, when playing the "bucket list" courses, tend to play further back than they really should.  They're trying to get the "pro experience".  This is particularly true at a course like Pinehurst #2, where there don't appear to be any real severe hazards, no forced carries, not many squeezed fairways.  In my mind, the pro experience is playing the same type of shot to the green that a pro plays.  If I hit my driver 50 yards shorter, and my irons 30 yards shorter, than means I should be playing tees on a par-4 that's 80 yards forward from the tournament tees.  But let them play where they like, as long as they play at a reasonable pace.

[ChetlovesMer]

6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 But let them play where they like, as long as they play at a reasonable pace.

I agree with this.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, phan52 said:

We were playing Lahinch about 7-8 years ago. We were about third in line to play. A group was on the tee and the tips tee box was right in the middle of the first tee and the one everyone should play was a little forward. The group on the tee went to the tips tee box and the first two players hit horrendous shots. The starter walked onto the tee and instructed the players to go to the forward tee and to play that tee box throughout the round or they would be asked to leave the course. They still held up everyone anyway and the rangers made them skip a hole at one point.

How embarrassing for them!  I like the idea of the starter asking to see your GHIN handicap card if he sees you strutting toward the very back tees.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Pretzel said:

By measure of handicap I'm probably playing the wrong tees according to many.

Using a handicap index to determine tees is kinda dumb. It's about how far you hit the ball, primarily, IMO. (I haven't workshopped that much, so I might walk back "primarily," but for now I'm going with it.)

[John80 plus]

I wonder if club head speed could be a determining factor tee box selection?  I'm 80 and starting to play again.  My club head speed in low 70s.

[Roblar]

My home course is a short par-70 that is just over 6000 from the tips. I don't drive the ball that far, and by the end of the round, I've usually needed to use almost every club except my 4-iron.  That seems good to me.

 

When I go to a new course, especially the first time, I try to play just over 6000yds (a bit longer if it is a par-72 course).  That's what I'm used to.