Bryson Wins. Is That Bad?

[Vinsk]

10 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

THIS

Seriously, if I have to hear one more golf commentator bitch about the modern golf ball.... Quit your f-ing whining. 

Especially when BD wasn’t even the longest hitter out there..AND Zach Johnson made a good showing and he’s hardly a big hitter.

[Double Mocha Man]

5 hours ago, HoganApexFan said:

Really wish they would only cover him when he's actually ready to step in and hit the shot...the same goes for everyone on the green who takes forever to line up a putt!  

Disagree.  My favorite part of televised golf is watching the players line up their putts from both sides, re-read their little books, mark and remark and unmark their ball.  Oh, I also like watching a guy go to his bag to pull out a bottle of water.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Double Mocha Man

[Golfingdad]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Disagree.  My favorite part of televised golf is watching the players line up their putts from both sides, re-read their little books, mark and remark and unmark their ball.  Oh, I also like watching a guy go to his bag to pull out a bottle of water.

You forgot that part where they had a camera 5' in front of them showing them walk off the tee towards the fairway while drinking said bottle of water.  All I can think of when they do that is how freaking awkward that must seem for the players.  Obviously they get used to it after awhile, but man it's weird.  They're just walking - why do we need to watch that for several seconds at a time? If they don't want to show us the other golfers, then at least just show more scenery or something.

[campbellj21]

3 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Especially when BD wasn’t even the longest hitter out there..AND Zach Johnson made a good showing and he’s hardly a big hitter.

I was just getting ready to point this out.  This U.S. Open just proved what so many people already know, there is more than one way to get it done when it comes to the game of golf.  Zach averages 282 off the tee and finished in the top ten in a U.S. Open at the age of 44.  There is still plenty of room in the game of golf for "shorter" hitters.

[klineka]

4 minutes ago, campbellj21 said:

I was just getting ready to point this out.  This U.S. Open just proved what so many people already know, there is more than one way to get it done when it comes to the game of golf.  Zach averages 282 off the tee and finished in the top ten in a U.S. Open at the age of 44. 

The only reason Zach Johnson finished anywhere decent this week was because he putted his ass off (Which has quite a bit to do with luck and isn't sustainable on a week to week basis). He gained 9.6 strokes putting over the 4 rounds, which is almost half as many total strokes as he gained in 54 measured rounds last year (19.9 total strokes gained putting)

He lost over a stroke total off the tee to the field, and lost over 6 strokes to Bryson off the tee. 

Johnson also only gained .5 strokes approach to the field over 4 rounds compared to Bryson who gained 7.5 over the 4 rounds.

Think about that for a second, Zach Johnson had what was most likely one of the best putting tournaments of his life, was better than the field average in approaching the green, and STILL lost by 12 shots...

15 minutes ago, campbellj21 said:

There is still plenty of room in the game of golf for "shorter" hitters.

Some weeks on some courses, sure. But not as a whole across all golfers on all courses over the entire season. The data simply just doesn't support your claim.

This was posted on the Superspeedgolf instagram page back in June

 

[campbellj21]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

The only reason Zach Johnson finished anywhere decent this week was because he putted his ass off (Which has quite a bit to do with luck and isn't sustainable on a week to week basis). He gained 9.6 strokes putting over the 4 rounds, which is almost half as many total strokes as he gained in 54 measured rounds last year (19.9 total strokes gained putting)

He lost over a stroke total off the tee to the field, and lost over 6 strokes to Bryson off the tee. 

Johnson also only gained .5 strokes approach to the field over 4 rounds compared to Bryson who gained 7.5 over the 4 rounds.

Think about that for a second, Zach Johnson had what was most likely one of the best putting tournaments of his life, was better than the field average in approaching the green, and STILL lost by 12 shots...

Some weeks on some courses, sure. But not as a whole across all golfers on all courses over the entire season. The data simply just doesn't support your claim.

This was posted on the Superspeedgolf instagram page back in June

 

The claim I made was that there is still plenty of room in the game for "shorter" hitters.  The fact that Zach Johnson at 44 years old is still playing on the tour and making money supports my claim.  I did not claim that you could be a leading money winner and dominate the game if you are a "shorter" hitter.  

[nevets88]

 

[klineka]

6 minutes ago, campbellj21 said:

The claim I made was that there is still plenty of room in the game for "shorter" hitters.  The fact that Zach Johnson at 44 years old is still playing on the tour and making money supports my claim.  I did not claim that you could be a leading money winner and dominate the game if you are a "shorter" hitter.  

Just because one player had an out of his mind putting week and got a top 10 in a major doesn't support your claim about there being "plenty of room". It simply doesnt hold true when looking at larger samples of data.

There isn't "plenty of room" for shorter hitters. Last season the top 10 players in driving distance combined to win more than the bottom 40 players in driving distance combined.

[colin007]

Stupid face? Check.

Stupid hat? Check.

Slow player? Check.

Of course he's bad for the game, what else needs to be determined? Close this thread. 🙂

[campbellj21]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

Just because one player had an out of his mind putting week and got a top 10 in a major doesn't support your claim about there being "plenty of room". It simply doesnt hold true when looking at larger samples of data.

There isn't "plenty of room" for shorter hitters. Last season the top 10 players in driving distance combined to win more than the bottom 40 players in driving distance combined.

You're just arguing semantics now, we could argue all day over who's definition of "plenty of room" should be applied.  My point is, there will always be people who perform below average in distance who still find a way to stick on the tour and even find a way to have decent careers.  Will Zach Johnson be considered an all time great, no, but did he find a way even with his limited distance to have a long career that is nothing to be ashamed of, yes.  I mean, he won The Open just five years ago.  Summing him up as "one player who had an out of his mind putting week" is pretty weak in my opinion, he's obviously had a career that has been much more than that.  

[Vinsk]

29 minutes ago, klineka said:

Just because one player had an out of his mind putting week and got a top 10 in a major doesn't support your claim about there being "plenty of room". It simply doesnt hold true when looking at larger samples of data.

There isn't "plenty of room" for shorter hitters. Last season the top 10 players in driving distance combined to win more than the bottom 40 players in driving distance combined.

The ZJ point I agree isn’t really supportive...but the way Azinger and others were slobbing over BD being so amazing due to his distance was exaggerated to me being that BD was only 6th in distance.

[Piz]

As the old Japanese saying goes:  the sticking up nail gets hammered in.  

[ScouseJohnny]

10 hours ago, ncates00 said:

Remember, Bryson hits it really high...He also hit very few fairways, so there won't be much roll.  In my view, they're not creating a myth at all.  

If skying it and missing the fairway in the process is an achievement, I feel my talents are going unrecognized.

[Double Mocha Man]

5 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

If skying it and missing the fairway in the process is an achievement, I feel my talents are going unrecognized.

Funny.  Mr. DeChambeau's drive probably goes higher than your skyed shot and 4 times longer.

[ScouseJohnny]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Funny.  Mr. DeChambeau's drive probably goes higher than your skyed shot and 4 times longer.

Well one would hope, given he's a top PGA Tour golfer, major winner, and an athlete in peak condition, as opposed to a middle-aged academic playing the local goat tracks as time away from teaching (online) class permits.

Edited September 21, 2020 by ScouseJohnny

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

Well one would hope, given he's a top PGA Tour golfer, major winner, and an athlete in peak condition, as opposed to a middle-aged academic playing the local goat tracks as time away from teaching (online) class permits.

Don't underestimate yourself.  You both might be good at science.  Or eating steaks.  Just ribbing you...

[iacas]

1 hour ago, campbellj21 said:

The claim I made was that there is still plenty of room in the game for "shorter" hitters.  The fact that Zach Johnson at 44 years old is still playing on the tour and making money supports my claim.  I did not claim that you could be a leading money winner and dominate the game if you are a "shorter" hitter.  

There is a decreasing amount of room, and there's not much left. I disagree with you; for almost all normal definitions of "plenty," there isn't "plenty" of room for short hitters.

49 minutes ago, campbellj21 said:

You're just arguing semantics now… My point is, there will always be people who perform below average in distance who still find a way to stick on the tour and even find a way to have decent careers.

"Below average" in 10 years might be someone who hits it 305. There's always going to be people "below average." Probably around 50% of the players will be "below average."

Funny you want to argue that others are talking about semantics, and then you use a word like "average."

How about "short" hitters? That's easier to agree to a definition, probably, and no, I don't think "short" hitters will do all that well in the coming years. They have less room each and every year.

[ncates00]

43 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

If skying it and missing the fairway in the process is an achievement, I feel my talents are going unrecognized.

Who said anything about skying the ball?  I said he hits it high.  There's a difference.  Sure, he missed fairways.  He won though, right? I'd say his strategy worked out pretty well for him.  Additionally, he hits it pretty straight to swing that fast.  Hitting the fairways he did hit is an achievement unto itself.  As to your talents, I cannot speak as I don't know you. 

An "academic" should be able to engage in a slightly more nuanced discussion than that which you have offered here.