What Constitutes Slow Play?

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

I don't want to get off topic and discuss that point, just what constitutes slow play for the game of golf. As far as the game of golf is concerned, it is usually insensitive people taking too much time to hit the ball. When I say insensitive, I mean not caring about other people's needs or desires for their enjoyment.

Enough of the passive aggressive swipes at “off topic” stuff. You’re not a moderator, and a single somewhat humorous six-word post from a long-time member doesn’t warrant an eleven-word prepositional phrase in response.

Just laugh, or ignore, and get back to the topic.

[Sandy Lie]

[iacas]

Should that say “slowly?” Or did they figure reading that extra syllable would further slow people down? 🙂

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

As far as the game of golf is concerned, it is usually insensitive people taking too much time to hit the ball.

There are the happy, unschooled idiots, too.  But they usually figure it out in a few rounds when balls are hit at them or words are hurled at them.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Should that say “slowly?” Or did they figure reading that extra syllable would further slow people down? 🙂

There was room for the word "damn"  before "slow" .

[Frank F]

19 hours ago, Billy Z said:

 

I like being out on the golf course as well, it's one of my favorite places to be, but it takes away from the enjoyment hitting the ball then waiting 10 minutes hit the ball again wait another 10 minutes after every shot. I don't like to be hurried as well because that can ruin enjoyment, but what is the worst is people taking needless amounts of time to play golf when it could be done more efficiently. All people have lives to live outside of the game and they don't want to spend 8 hours on a Saturday playing golf, or any other day as well. I will not subscribe to the idea that's slow play is appropriate because I enjoy being out on the golf course. Slow play ruins the enjoyment for the majority of golfers.

I guess it's probably just because I'm retired and live on a golf course. So, I confess that I'm probably spoiled now after playing munis and various other courses in the last 30 years (to include 3 years in Scotland). I don't work anymore, I look out my back window and see the 17th green, spend entirely too much money on golf, too much time thinking about golf and too much time practicing my game.

I don't have to drive 30-90 minutes anymore to the courses that I play, unload my clubs, worry about getting to the 19th hole in time for Happy Hour, driving home sober and worrying about my wife bitching at me for being away too long.

So I plead guilty for being insensitive here. Forgive me. 

[Double Mocha Man]

9 minutes ago, Frank F said:

I guess it's probably just because I'm retired and live on a golf course. So, I confess that I'm probably spoiled now after playing munis and various other courses in the last 30 years (to include 3 years in Scotland). I don't work anymore, I look out my back window and see the 17th green, spend entirely too much money on golf, too much time thinking about golf and too much time practicing my game.

I don't have to drive 30-90 minutes anymore to the courses that I play, unload my clubs, worry about getting to the 19th hole in time for Happy Hour, driving home sober and worrying about my wife bitching at me for being away too long.

So I plead guilty for being insensitive here. Forgive me. 

Nice setup.  Can you sneak out on the course at twilight to practice a few shots?  Cocktail in hand?

[Frank F]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Nice setup.  Can you sneak out on the course at twilight to practice a few shots?  Cocktail in hand?

Absolutely! It's expected here and not really considered being "sneaky". 

[Billy Z]

1 hour ago, Frank F said:

I guess it's probably just because I'm retired and live on a golf course. So, I confess that I'm probably spoiled now after playing munis and various other courses in the last 30 years (to include 3 years in Scotland). I don't work anymore, I look out my back window and see the 17th green, spend entirely too much money on golf, too much time thinking about golf and too much time practicing my game.

I don't have to drive 30-90 minutes anymore to the courses that I play, unload my clubs, worry about getting to the 19th hole in time for Happy Hour, driving home sober and worrying about my wife bitching at me for being away too long.

So I plead guilty for being insensitive here. Forgive me. 

It's all good. Today, Saturday, I played 18 at a local course in a 3some, 3:50 min. Only had to wait on the back nine a bit. I don't like to race through a round, but I don't like waiting very long. I am retired, retired at age 57, and usually play my golf during the week days which generally aren't as bad as the weekends. I don't mind 4:15 rounds, but when it gets past 4:30 hrs, ouch.

[Frank F]

17 hours ago, Billy Z said:

It's all good. Today, Saturday, I played 18 at a local course in a 3some, 3:50 min. Only had to wait on the back nine a bit. I don't like to race through a round, but I don't like waiting very long. I am retired, retired at age 57, and usually play my golf during the week days which generally aren't as bad as the weekends. I don't mind 4:15 rounds, but when it gets past 4:30 hrs, ouch.

So, here poses an interesting (to me anyway) insight. We all see to be focusing on "time", or at least the majority here are. You and I seem to have similar handicap indexes. So here's the question: In a round, what are your average fairways hit? How many greens in regulation do you hit? How many penalties do you accrue? What is your average putts per green?  (I'm not expecting an answer, just suggesting food for thought)

I ask because for someone of say, a handicap index of 5 or better I would imagine that for one stat, their GIR's are probably North of 70%. Sure, they may have fewer fairways hit but probably are better recovery players and their misses are making the first cut more than being lost balls, That same group probably has zero penalties and is putting at about 1.5 or less per green.

Why do I bring this up? Because the majority of weekend warriors (unless they are a rare exception) who complain constantly about pace of play are focusing on time and people lining up putts to an extent that they find unacceptable. And yet, they take mulligans, use the foot wedge to improve their lie, basically, I don't know what they play out there but, it isn't golf.

For me, I play better at a faster pace. I play my best golf with one partner of similar or better handicap or alone. But, in modern golf course management that is going to be a rarity especially on the weekends. Even here at my club, if I don't form a foursome from members, we'll pick up a partner or two from the public. That's what courses do to make money. And forcing us to push each other on the course is in line with that same business model. The course benefits from a sub four hour round 100% of the time. Because if the starter can launch foursomes off the tee boxes like sorties from an aircraft carrier in wartime they will do it. But, we don't necessarily benefit as much as they do and honestly, they don't care about your game as much as they do your money (which they already have).

Instead of "time" ("I play faster that you, therefore I am a better golfer" mentality), we could all do better to keep our ball in play and work on our GIR stats. Certainly myself included. 

Personally, I could do less with the chatty, distracting golfer who has to bitch about every shot he misses, who walks around the green talking to himself and others while people are trying to putt, who refuses to putt out after playing "hockey" or "shuffleboard" with his ball four times and then says "put me down for a double" on a par 4. The former actually frustrates and slows down a foursome more than people realize. 

We're all working on our game. I'm never satisfied with any score I record because at my level I have so much more work to do. I'm addicted.

But in the end, we're probably all talking less about time and more about etiquette. I just believe that for people who can't hit the green more than 30% of the time in 18 holes or who are averaging more that 2 putts per green, we really could focus more on our own game instead of what everyone else is doing or not doing. I find it laughable that people actually think that a 4.25 hour round on a Saturday at the local Muni is such a big deal.

I spent 32 years in service to my country and behind a badge. I could spend 5 hours on a golf course and think that I was in Heaven in comparison to what I have witnessed and been through in my life.

Maybe I'm wrong (I probably am). And it's all good all right because this is my life and that is yours. We don't have to think alike, we just need to remember to be patient and kind to one another on and off the golf course. Etiquette is the key in my opinion, from both sides of this discussion and from tee to green all the way up to the 19th hole.

 

[Double Mocha Man]

Good pace of play for me is being able to arrive at my ball, no waiting, take a small "feel it" practice swing, and strike the ball.  Whether that's a 3 hour round or a 5 hour round.  The only excuse for waiting is if the players in front of me are waiting on a par 5, and actually have the ability to reach the green in two.  Then they are forgiven.

[Billy Z]

 

1 hour ago, Frank F said:

So, here poses an interesting (to me anyway) insight. We all see to be focusing on "time", or at least the majority here are. You and I seem to have similar handicap indexes. So here's the question: In a round, what are your average fairways hit? How many greens in regulation do you hit? How many penalties do you accrue? What is your average putts per green?  (I'm not expecting an answer, just suggesting food for thought)

I ask because for someone of say, a handicap index of 5 or better I would imagine that for one stat, their GIR's are probably North of 70%. Sure, they may have fewer fairways hit but probably are better recovery players and their misses are making the first cut more than being lost balls, That same group probably has zero penalties and is putting at about 1.5 or less per green.

Why do I bring this up? Because the majority of weekend warriors (unless they are a rare exception) who complain constantly about pace of play are focusing on time and people lining up putts to an extent that they find unacceptable. And yet, they take mulligans, use the foot wedge to improve their lie, basically, I don't know what they play out there but, it isn't golf.

For me, I play better at a faster pace. I play my best golf with one partner of similar or better handicap or alone. But, in modern golf course management that is going to be a rarity especially on the weekends. Even here at my club, if I don't form a foursome from members, we'll pick up a partner or two from the public. That's what courses do to make money. And forcing us to push each other on the course is in line with that same business model. The course benefits from a sub four hour round 100% of the time. Because if the starter can launch foursomes off the tee boxes like sorties from an aircraft carrier in wartime they will do it. But, we don't necessarily benefit as much as they do and honestly, they don't care about your game as much as they do your money (which they already have).

Instead of "time" ("I play faster that you, therefore I am a better golfer" mentality), we could all do better to keep our ball in play and work on our GIR stats. Certainly myself included. 

Personally, I could do less with the chatty, distracting golfer who has to bitch about every shot he misses, who walks around the green talking to himself and others while people are trying to putt, who refuses to putt out after playing "hockey" or "shuffleboard" with his ball four times and then says "put me down for a double" on a par 4. The former actually frustrates and slows down a foursome more than people realize. 

We're all working on our game. I'm never satisfied with any score I record because at my level I have so much more work to do. I'm addicted.

But in the end, we're probably all talking less about time and more about etiquette. I just believe that for people who can't hit the green more than 30% of the time in 18 holes or who are averaging more that 2 putts per green, we really could focus more on our own game instead of what everyone else is doing or not doing. I find it laughable that people actually think that a 4.25 hour round on a Saturday at the local Muni is such a big deal.

I spent 32 years in service to my country and behind a badge. I could spend 5 hours on a golf course and think that I was in Heaven in comparison to what I have witnessed and been through in my life.

Maybe I'm wrong (I probably am). And it's all good all right because this is my life and that is yours. We don't have to think alike, we just need to remember to be patient and kind to one another on and off the golf course. Etiquette is the key in my opinion, from both sides of this discussion and from tee to green all the way up to the 19th hole.

 

Many good points you make, and I am now a bit more embarrassed inre of my GIR, lol. I included my yesterday's scorecard with the basic stats from that round. My GIR were suffering, but my saves around the green a decent. I have really been concentrating on those touch shots close in. Anyway, I think golf can be played at a decent pace even with higher cappers. My playing partners are in the range of mid 20 hc and we are usually always waiting on the groups in front of us. The card included was a round of about 3:50, and my friends probably shot around 100. 

[pusher]

Funny. Most everyone complains about slow play but no one will ever admit to being slow. So, who is causing slow play? 

 

[Darkfrog]

Played 18 today, first tee time of the morning (6:40am), and finished in just about 3 hours 50 minutes. Two players in carts, two walkers. We ended up about 1.5 holes ahead of the group behind us.

I think I was the lowest HC in the foursome, I'd estimate two of the guys were ~15, and one guy was probably ~25. Course rating from the white tees where we played is 69.2 (par 70), so not notably difficult. I observed during the round:

• We all were playing ready golf
• No one playing from tees longer/harder than their ability level
• No waiting around to see who had the honor at the tee
• No stopping at the turn to order breakfast/drinks
• No excessive pre-shot routines
• Not a significant amount of time spent looking for a lost balls
• No one reading putts from 10 different vantage points

We moved around the course at what felt like a good pace, and I thought the round would have been in the 3:30 range, but it was slower than that. I wonder if certain courses/golfers combinations just have a predestined PoP?

[boogielicious]

Talking of slow play, the WGC Match Play final is moving at a glacial pace.

[NM Golf]

On 3/25/2021 at 5:27 AM, iacas said:

Sub four hour rounds isn’t “hurrying.” Not even close. And for many the choice isn’t between a 3:30 round and a 4:15 round, it’s between a 3:45 round or not playing that day.

I play sub 4 hour rounds all the time, and I totally understand the need to get around the course in a hurry for those with time constraints. I play a ton of those rounds during the summer teeing off at 6:15 so I can be home before the kids even wake up.

All I am saying is I don't mind, and actually enjoy rounds more, when the pace is around 4 hours. It's just more fun for me. More time to talk, more make fun of all the shitty shots we have hit, etc. More "relaxed" pace. There's not a lot of waiting to hit shots involved in a 4 hour round at my course. It's more of a showing up on the tee box just as the people in front of you are getting out of the way. We have to realize different courses play at different speeds. There is another course I play here in town that 4 hours would be crawling.

BUT

To stay on topic slow play is:

• Not ready to hit when its your turn. 
• Waiting for your turn to start your routine (You can get your yardage and read your lie while others are doing the same just make sure you'e not in the way.)
• Reading putts from 4 different angles (It's not the US Open)
• Waiting for your turn to read your putt (if you are the last to putt you should have it read already)
• Worrying about honors on the tee box. (If you're first to the tee hit the damn thing.)
• Playing the wrong tees (You'll enjoy the course more from the correct yardage and so will the people behind you))

[David in FL]

21 hours ago, pusher said:

Funny. Most everyone complains about slow play but no one will ever admit to being slow. So, who is causing slow play? 

 

The reason that nobody admits to being slow, is because they don’t define the pace at which they play as slow.  They call it relaxed or some such...

[CarlSpackler]

Have we hit triple digits in the number of slow play threads yet? The person who starts it should get a special award.

[Billy Z]

45 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Have we hit triple digits in the number of slow play threads yet? The person who starts it should get a special award.

Probably because 'slow play' is still part of the game of golf, some may say a cancerous part of golf. I think the length of time an individual has to spend playing a round of golf, especially on a weekend, can reach upwards to 8hrs of their day. Imagine a family man , who works 50 hrs per week, leaving his family for 8 hrs on a weekend day. Some folks just give up playing because so much time is spent for a round. Although, I'm not sure 1 hr less would make that big of a difference. As long as there is slow play, there will be slow play threads.