Leaf Rules

[chspeed]

Found an old thread on this, but nothing recent.

When we play in late fall, many areas on the fairways and rough (not to mention the bunkers and woods) on the courses we play are inundated with leaves. These courses generally do a poor job of blowing leaves, and frankly don't give a s***.

To speed up play, and lower frustration, our foursome play a "leaf rule." in which any ball deemed by the collective as clearly findable under normal conditions (i.e. in the fairway or rough), gets a free drop.

My question is regarding posting these scores. How should they be posted? Should these rounds not post because you didn't play them according to the rules? Should you score the hole as if you didn't really finish it, and put the likely score if you played it properly? This would, IMO, inflate handicaps quite a bit in the fall.

 

[iacas]

They should not be posted as they are not played under the Rules of Golf.

At the very least you should take par+ handicap on holes where you use that for yourself.

[Zippo]

You’ve only got 3 minutes to find your ball so I recommend one of these for your push cart:

[DaveP043]

Here's a quote from Section 2.1b(ii) of the Handicapping Rules:

"Where a player follows the provisions set down in a Model Local Rule, even when the Committee in charge of the course has not adopted that Model Local Rule, the score may still be acceptable for handicap purposes"

There IS a Model Local Rule (F-14) which the Committee can utilize to categorize collections of Loose Impediments (i.e. leaves) as Ground Under Repair.  So using a "leaf Rule" could be considered as playing under a Local Rules which is not currently in effect.  So the score COULD be postable.  The final decision, as in many things, rests with the Handicap Committee at your course.  You should blindly assume you have the authority to make the decision on your own.

[Missouri Swede]

38 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

You should blindly assume you have the authority to make the decision on your own.

Better to seek forgiveness than to ask permission?

[DaveP043]

9 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

Better to seek forgiveness than to ask permission?

Too late to edit the original, i meant you should NOT assume you have the authority.  The MLR is meant to be applied in limited circumstances, in limited areas of the course.  For individual players, or groups of players, to make this decision on their own, and apply it everywhere, will lead to artificially low scores posted.  

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

There IS a Model Local Rule (F-14) which the Committee can utilize to categorize collections of Loose Impediments (i.e. leaves) as Ground Under Repair.  So using a "leaf Rule" could be considered as playing under a Local Rules which is not currently in effect.  So the score COULD be postable.  The final decision, as in many things, rests with the Handicap Committee at your course.  You should blindly assume you have the authority to make the decision on your own.

Yes, and as you know, leaves that just fell onto the course aren't piles or "collections" in that same sense.

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There's no leaf rule. It's just a lost ball.

Watch where it goes even more closely, I guess. 😉

[Carl3]

Today is the last day in my area of NY to post scores to GHIN. Leaves might be one reason why.

I just switched to a club with a lot more trees. The grounds crew is putting in a lot of hours collecting and disposing of the leaves, but there are still some areas just off a couple of fairways where you would be fortunate to find a ball.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Carl3

[chspeed]

 

16 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Here's a quote from Section 2.1b(ii) of the Handicapping Rules:

"Where a player follows the provisions set down in a Model Local Rule, even when the Committee in charge of the course has not adopted that Model Local Rule, the score may still be acceptable for handicap purposes"

There IS a Model Local Rule (F-14) which the Committee can utilize to categorize collections of Loose Impediments (i.e. leaves) as Ground Under Repair.  So using a "leaf Rule" could be considered as playing under a Local Rules which is not currently in effect.  So the score COULD be postable.  The final decision, as in many things, rests with the Handicap Committee at your course.  You should blindly assume you have the authority to make the decision on your own.

I found this, on golf.com, but it doesn't seem right because leaves are not mentioned as an abnormal course condition. Thoughts?

"But even if this local rule isn’t in place, you do have another option your situation could fall under that’s covered in Rule 16.1e, Relief for Ball Not Found but in or on Abnormal Course Condition. An Abnormal Course Condition is defined as either an animal hole, ground under repair, immovable obstruction or temporary water. So if your crushed drive happens to just miss the fairway and trickle into that pile of leaves — something the grounds crew would have raked for pending removal, for example — and if it is “known or virtually certain” your ball is somewhere in there even though you can’t find it (don’t cheat!), you can play it as ground under repair, not stroke and distance."

 

An important rule you MUST know when playing fall golf in the leaves

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Playing fall golf is great, but those pesky leaves can also mean finding your golf ball can be a struggle. Make sure to remember this rule.

 

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I found this, on golf.com, but it doesn't seem right because leaves are not mentioned as an abnormal course condition. Thoughts?

Leaves piled for removal (i.e. someone raked or blew the leaves into a big pile, or onto a tarp, or whatever) are ground under repair. Look at the definition for GUR, which includes:

Quote

• Grass cuttings, leaves and any other material piled for later removal. But:

  • Any natural materials that are piled for removal are also loose impediments, and

  • Any materials left on the course that are not intended to be removed are not ground under repair unless the Committee has defined them as such.

[chspeed]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Leaves piled for removal (i.e. someone raked or blew the leaves into a big pile, or onto a tarp, or whatever) are ground under repair. Look at the definition for GUR, which includes:

Ah OK. So then it becomes a matter of knowing which leaves are raked together or blown into a pile vs just fallen, which is pretty easy to tell.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, chspeed said:

Ah OK. So then it becomes a matter of knowing which leaves are raked together or blown into a pile vs just fallen, which is pretty easy to tell.

Generally, yeah. Plus piles tend to not stay for very long, because they'll blow away, so if leaves are piled for removal, they're generally removed pretty quickly.

Also, leaves blown into a "pile" toward the edge of the woods off the golf course aren't piled for removal — they were just blown there so they're out of the rough/fairway.

[billchao]

You’re covered by 7.4 if you accidentally move the ball while searching for it though, so if you’re certain the ball is in a specific area, you can get a little aggressive searching for it.

[DrvFrShow]

not an issue right now... we're in a river of rain. But back in October I was playing a course a few years back and hit my tee shot dead center of the fairway. Like the entire foursome saw it land. We were virtually certain it was in the fairway about 210 yds out. It was breezy and leaves were blowing. We couldn't find the ball. Then we found the ball. People went to their balls. I went back to the cart to get the club I was going to hit and lo and behold some leaves blew over and covered the ball again and we lost it. I dropped another ball in the general vicinity and played on. Virtually Certain. Leaf rule.

[chspeed]

22 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

not an issue right now... we're in a river of rain. But back in October I was playing a course a few years back and hit my tee shot dead center of the fairway. Like the entire foursome saw it land. We were virtually certain it was in the fairway about 210 yds out. It was breezy and leaves were blowing. We couldn't find the ball. Then we found the ball. People went to their balls. I went back to the cart to get the club I was going to hit and lo and behold some leaves blew over and covered the ball again and we lost it. I dropped another ball in the general vicinity and played on. Virtually Certain. Leaf rule.

I'm with you. I'd rather not post my score than deal with such insanity.

[bkuehn1952]

On 11/4/2022 at 7:51 PM, DrvFrShow said:

... It was breezy and leaves were blowing. We couldn't find the ball. Then we found the ball. People went to their balls. I went back to the cart to get the club I was going to hit and lo and behold some leaves blew over and covered the ball again and we lost it ...

I drop my hat near my ball when it is in a difficult position. I hate searching for my ball twice. It is so easy to walk away to get a club and then not find the darn ball again. I have seen other players forced to take a lost ball penalty when they could not find their ball a second time.

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

I drop my hat near my ball when it is in a difficult position. I hate searching for my ball twice. It is so easy to walk away to get a club and then not find the darn ball again. I have seen other players forced to take a lost ball penalty when they could not find their ball a second time.

I do this all the time.

If I didn't I'd lose my mind. Searching for a ball twice and/or taking a penalty for it sucks.