The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by 1puttit

I'm not sure why there is so much prejudice against S&T; but it definitely exists. It is probably because S&T; challenges a lot of what is traditionally taught so it puts mainstream instructors on the defensive. Most people have this black/white style of thinking - if S&T; teaches that you don't need to shift your weight back then teachers who do favor a big weight shift automatically feel that S&T; is saying they're teaching the swing wrong. And nobody like to be wrong. Maybe its because they say the grip and stance aren't fundamentals? Maybe because they've said (in the Charlie Rose interview) "What if we told you everything you've been taught about the fundamentals of golf is wrong" (or words to that affect)? Or maybe because the "system" was marketed through Medicus and was therefore seen as a money grab infomercial and not a serious swing method?

For whatever reason, there are a lot of people out there that don't like S&T.; What I find humorous is golf announcers commenting on golf swings like Tiger, Hunter Mahan, Rose, etc.. that are all basically S&T; swings. The sad part is Andy and Mike are probably never going to get the credit they deserve. For me it is not worth the hassle of arguing with uneducated people about the merits of S&T.;  I just tell people I;m working on a center pivot swing which is what S&T; is.

The whole debate kind of reminds me of the Atkins low carb diet. When it first came out there was all this uproar about how bad it is for you and how it was going to cause heart disease, etc... Now most of the leading diets (Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, Nutrisystem) are moving away from low fat diets and incorporating low carb principles. They talk about Glycemic index but it is really low carb.

I think a lot of people are skeptical about the weight shift part.  If you look at similar athletic moves in other sports (throwing a ball in baseball or football, a baseball swing, etc) theres a shift and then you tell them in S&T; that there isnt a shift to the back foot, I can see them being skeptical.

It is what it is, if S&T; works for some people, thats cool.

[saevel25]

There is a weight shift, its to the left leg. Look at pitching a baseball. The are basically in a stationary position. They don't sway backwards first, there whole motion is towards the plate. Look at football, they are standing upright, and the whole motion is towards the spot they want to throw the ball. In S&T; the motion is towards the target. Its not that radical of an idea, the radical idea came from all these false notions that you need to get your weight to the back foot. Everyone has been brainwashed into thinking something that doesn't work well. I am not saying it can't be done, there's probably a few pro's who get there weight more to the back foot than others. But its not the same thing that has been taught to amatuers for years..

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I think a lot of people are skeptical about the weight shift part.  If you look at similar athletic moves in other sports (throwing a ball in baseball or football, a baseball swing, etc) theres a shift and then you tell them in S&T; that there isnt a shift to the back foot, I can see them being skeptical.

It is what it is, if S&T; works for some people, thats cool.

You haven't been paying close attention.

• Weight != Pressure.
• Baseball hitters routinely hit the ball with their weight 50/50. Golfers rarely do (impact in both). I've posted pictures.
• A pitcher doesn't shift his weight. He's pretty much centered, then pushes forward. Pretty similar to what the S&T; guys want you to do.

Originally Posted by saevel25

There is a weight shift, its to the left leg. Look at pitching a baseball. The are basically in a stationary position. They don't sway backwards first, there whole motion is towards the plate. Look at football, they are standing upright, and the whole motion is towards the spot they want to throw the ball. In S&T; the motion is towards the target. Its not that radical of an idea, the radical idea came from all these false notions that you need to get your weight to the back foot. Everyone has been brainwashed into thinking something that doesn't work well. I am not saying it can't be done, there's probably a few pro's who get there weight more to the back foot than others. But its not the same thing that has been taught to amatuers for years..

Good stuff.

[Th3R00st3r]

Originally Posted by jamo

I don't blame him, sounds like his current swing was awesome!

Yeah, I would have said "It appears like your instructor knows what he's talking about,He has you stiking the ball consistantly.  I would bet he just wants you to keep coming back.."

JK, I wouldn't say that, but I'd be thinking it.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I think a lot of people are skeptical about the weight shift part.  If you look at similar athletic moves in other sports (throwing a ball in baseball or football, a baseball swing, etc) theres a shift and then you tell them in S&T; that there isnt a shift to the back foot, I can see them being skeptical.

It is what it is, if S&T; works for some people, thats cool.

Not really.  Throwing a football or a baseball requires weight to be centered, and then move forward to the leading leg.  Pretty much every athletic activity requires weight to be centered in order to create power and accuracy.  Getting weight on the leading leg at the beginning simplifies the process for the typical amateur that gets his weight on the trailing leg, and never gets it forward.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bwdial

Not really.  Throwing a football or a baseball requires weight to be centered, and then move forward to the leading leg.  Pretty much every athletic activity requires weight to be centered in order to create power and accuracy.  Getting weight on the leading leg at the beginning simplifies the process for the typical amateur that gets his weight on the trailing leg, and never gets it forward.

And to be clear, in S&T;, the weight should really only be about 55/45 to A4. Any more than that is too much, though to many it will feel as if it's 80/20 forward or something.

50/50 from A1 to A4, 80-90% forward by A7. There's the "weight shift."

[outlaw1984]

Are they're any S&T; instructors in Ky or Wva???

[miami8miami]

Since satck and tilt is an inline pattern, how many yards of a push and subsequent draw is the stock shot? Say a 6 iron? Driver?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by miami8miami

Since satck and tilt is an inline pattern, how many yards of a push and subsequent draw is the stock shot? Say a 6 iron? Driver?

No way to say. Ball position, AoA, etc. can all change that.

[pumaAttack]

Ha this is funny, I was doing S/T without even knowing it for the past  few years... I have since gotten rid of it because I was never able to hit consitent shots and my drives were awful.

[keeps21]

Hi all

I'm interested in finding out more about the Stack & Tilt golf swing.

Is there anywhere on the internet that goes into it in more detail than on the S&T; site, few videos I've found on youtube?

Obviously, buying the book DVD / would be the best way, but I want to find out as much as possible beforehand about the S&T; swing.

Thanks in advance.

[The_Pharaoh]

Start here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/30537/the-stack-and-tilt-golf-swing

[mvmac]

Yes, please make sure to use the search functions, thanks

[nevets88]

There are lots of SnT videos on YouTube, you just gotta know where to look.

[BallStriker]

i'm not necessarily stack and tilk, but i will relay a few parts of the overall package -- as i see it -- works, in the S and T world....and please note that this is coming from a left hand dominate right handed player....for what it's worth...

1.  key number 1 is keeping your chest over the ball....

2.  key number 2 is remembering how you maintain good balance following rule no. 1....

3,  key to answering no. 2 is knowing that you lift with the right hand to the top of the slot and then let go through the shot....

And the real key is maintaining those rules in reverse order...LOL...it works!

[BallStriker]

and oh by the way if you didn't know......

flat left wrist..........always and easy...

[keeps21]

I'm looking to switch to S&T;, as it makes sense to me and my main miss with a 'traditional' swing is to hit fat. I just have a (hopefully) quick question.

With the stock S&T; shot being a push draw, will my driver cause me problems? It's a Cleveland HiBore XLS Monster Draw 12°. It's got a closed face to promote draw (though the new ball flight rules actually mean it promotes a pull) and obviously, if I'm drawing the ball, I don't want to be pulling it too.

Also, I've read that S&T; creates a high push draw... will the 12° loft cause me to hit it too high?

Thanks.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by keeps21

I'm looking to switch to S&T;, as it makes sense to me and my main miss with a 'traditional' swing is to hit fat. I just have a (hopefully) quick question.

With the stock S&T; shot being a push draw, will my driver cause me problems? It's a Cleveland HiBore XLS Monster Draw 12°. It's got a closed face to promote draw (though the new ball flight rules actually mean it promotes a pull) and obviously, if I'm drawing the ball, I don't want to be pulling it too.

Also, I've read that S&T; creates a high push draw... will the 12° loft cause me to hit it too high?

Thanks.

I don't know about your closed face - but some people requires assistance getting the club to square up with a 460cc club. So it depends on whether you are squaring up that closed face.

As to the 12 degrees, it depends on your shaft - I use an Adams 9088UL 12.5 with a Fuji Blur 55 and it is mid kick - I use S&T; and ball flight does not get too high. But if you have a low kick shaft, when you get to an S&T; swing, and it will take time, then you may not need the low kick shaft.

You'll need to make certain adjustments with the driver to get it high - see two golf evolution videos available on you tube - one deals with driver adjustments with the S&T; swing, the other with getting flight up - the throw the boulder video. They are helpful and required viewing.