Rory McIlroy Topic (Was "Overrated")

[Herkimer]

If I could have one current pro's swing, it would be Rory's. 

[pganapathy]

For me, Rory is one of the few golfers I can see winning multiple majors from here.  Could he end his career with double digit majors, maybe.  But I do believe of all the current golfers, he is the most likely to make it.  It all depends on him wanting it though

[ChetlovesMer]

I have to confess to being a Rory fan. I like the guy. I root for the guy. I give him a pass sometimes when he says something that if Sergio said it I'd bury him for it. I guess you could call me a Rory Apologist. 

[boogielicious]

13 hours ago, Herkimer said:

If I could have one current pro's swing, it would be Rory's. 

It is a thing of beauty.

[Vinsk]

42 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I have to confess to being a Rory fan. I like the guy. I root for the guy. I give him a pass sometimes when he says something that if Sergio said it I'd bury him for it. I guess you could call me a Rory Apologist. 

I do too. The only time he really irked me was when he said, ‘....Rugby....it’s American football without the pads.’ Yeah no. Not even close. 

[klineka]

3 hours ago, pganapathy said:

For me, Rory is one of the few golfers I can see winning multiple majors from here.  Could he end his career with double digit majors, maybe.  But I do believe of all the current golfers, he is the most likely to make it.  It all depends on him wanting it though

That's a stupid comment IMO. Every single player on tour wants to win every single tournament they enter. They all "want it"

For all we know, Rory might "want it" more than anyone else on tour right now, but that doesn't automatically mean it's going to happen.

[Vinsk]

17 minutes ago, klineka said:

That's a stupid comment IMO. Every single player on tour wants to win every single tournament they enter. They all "want it"

For all we know, Rory might "want it" more than anyone else on tour right now, but that doesn't automatically mean it's going to happen.

I think you’re taking it too literal. There’s a level to the ‘wanting’ that can play a role in how successful a player, or anybody really, will be. And it’s on both ends of the spectrum. Being worth millions and having fame, being a household name in golf some may start a family and lose that desire. They’ll play and enjoy it but they’re not seeking out counselors, coaches and firing up the TrackMan for hours a day.

Then you’ve got the bottom level guy who makes a living on tour, has other interests and doesn’t have that fire but golf pays the bills. It’s like instructors too. Look what Erik puts into golf. Then there’s my former instructor who’s young but lazy and unmotivated. He complains of wanting his center to grow but does nothing to promote it. 

You’re right about wanting not guaranteeing success. But Rory truly wanting to catch Tiger is certainly going to help him more than a ‘if it happens it happens’ attitude. Just my opinion of course. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Vinsk

[rehmwa]

51 minutes ago, klineka said:

That's a stupid comment IMO. Every single player on tour wants to win every single tournament they enter. They all "want it"

I've watch a couple NIT games while waiting for the 'real' basketball tournament to start.  The announcers are playing the "whichever team wants it more" card over and over and over and over again.  please

(Of course, I have a bias against sports announcers in general - take my comments on the topic with that in mind)

For golf it's a weird concept - depends on how each player's dedication and passion drives him.  For some, 'wanting' it real bad might drive them to productively train and focus.  Perhaps for others, "wanting it" might be a source of stress and glitching and choking.  They might be better just doing the work and relaxing and letting the wins come.  I've seen both.  "Wanting it" to me is likely a random variable that's too dependent on the individual to mean anything in terms of being successful or not.

Edited March 21, 2019 by rehmwa

[pganapathy]

3 hours ago, klineka said:

That's a stupid comment IMO. Every single player on tour wants to win every single tournament they enter. They all "want it"

For all we know, Rory might "want it" more than anyone else on tour right now, but that doesn't automatically mean it's going to happen.

My bad, I should have said 'how much he wants it'.  The difference between Tiger and the others, was his mental fortitude and drive to win.  He had so much more of it than the competition.  The same can be said of Rory, when he first started.  He was driven to win.  It seems to be less so now.  Call it maturing, call it mellowing, I don't know, but he doesn't show that passion as much as in the past

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

The difference between Tiger and the others, was his mental fortitude and drive to win.

No, the difference is that Tiger was that much f***ing better than just about everyone else.

Nearly everyone playing wants to win and has the drive to do so.

[pganapathy]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, the difference is that Tiger was that much f***ing better than just about everyone else.

Nearly everyone playing wants to win and has the drive to do so.

I don't think he was that much better physically than say Ernie or Phil or various others in his time.  He has 14 majors while they have 4.  He has 80 tour wins.  They are nowhere close.  The differentiating factor has to be mental.  He made better decisions.  He reacted better under pressure.  At that level of the game, golf is so much more mental than physical.  Simple example, Jon Rahm at the Players could have punched out on 11 and hit the green in 3.  At most would have been a par.  No need to go for the hero shot and bend it like 30 yards or whatever.

[rehmwa]

32 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

he doesn't show that passion as much as in the past

Skill <> passion, never will

you're inferring that passion gives them something significant.  If you want to make that argument, you need to directly tie that passion into a train of connections that end at a measurable improvement of skill over the entire rest of the professional golfing world

We're not comparing some high school kid that's passionate enough to take lessons and show up to practice vs some kid that just shows up on meet days.  We're comparing the best of commited pros vs the entire rest of the field of committed pros.

1 minute ago, pganapathy said:

  At that level of the game, golf is so much more mental than physical.

oh boy, here we go

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I don't think he was that much better physically than say Ernie or Phil or various others in his time.

He was.

8 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

The differentiating factor has to be mental.

It's physical.

8 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

The differentiating factor has to be mental.  He made better decisions.  He reacted better under pressure.

Nope, he hit better shots than them.

8 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

At that level of the game, golf is so much more mental than physical.

Wrong again.

---

We're not getting into this again here @pganapathy. You're flat out wrong. There are a ton of other mental game topics where you can discuss this and, ideally, see how wrong you are.

The "mental game" at that level is a thin separator. It doesn't mean literally zero, but it's still very much physical that dominates - and not just by 55% or something - the game.

Had Rahm hit a better shot, you'd be praising his determination and focus… when really, the mental effort that went into the shot would have been exactly the same.

Anyway, not on topic here. Plenty of other mental game topics. Start here:

 

[pganapathy]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

He was.

It's physical.

Nope, he hit better shots than them.

Wrong again.

---

 

I don't intend this post to get into the whole discussion again, but my point is simple.  It is not like Ernie or Phil couldn't play all the shots that Tiger could, they just couldn't do it as regularly, and as well under pressure.  I say this is a mental game, because I can hit the same shot brilliantly once and then badly the next time, especially when I over-think it and worry about the result.  Maybe it is just me 😥

[boogielicious]

36 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I don't intend this post to get into the whole discussion again, but my point is simple.  It is not like Ernie or Phil couldn't play all the shots that Tiger could, they just couldn't do it as regularly, and as well under pressure.  I say this is a mental game, because I can hit the same shot brilliantly once and then badly the next time, especially when I over-think it and worry about the result.  Maybe it is just me 😥

Tiger didn’t hit those great shots with his attitude, he hit them with his physical ability. He could hit them more often because he was better physically. He had better hand eye coordination, hit the sweet spot on his irons and woods with more accuracy. He could hit shots high and low, left and right. He was just flat out better than them.

By your logic, Usain Bolt won his gold medals because he wanted it more and had more mental toughness. But the truth is, he was just faster.

It is just you.

[Buckeyebowman]

My Mom didn't like Tiger Woods because she thought announcers excessively fawned over him. She didn't like anyone who got that treatment. We were watching TV at her house and had the golf tourney on. They played a clip of Tiger, I believe in  a playoff, hitting his tee shot on a par 3 where he just flat killed the ball! I had seen the clip before and told my Mom, "Watch this! Look at this swing!"

It was so athletic, graceful, powerful, and impressive! I told her, "That's why guys are slobbering all over him! He's a new kind of golfer. He's going to change the game!"

[Herkimer]

I do believe that some golfers "want it" more than others simply by putting more hours and effort into becoming great.  From what I've read about Hogan, I'd have to say that he wanted it more than others.  I'd say the same thing about Bryson.  And, of course, Tiger.  This is true in all fields, not just golf, and to me it's as plain as day.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Herkimer said:

This is true in all fields, not just golf, and to me it's as plain as day.

And yet:

• You don’t know how much Rory “wants” it versus Bryson, or their practice regimens.
• Rory won. Bryson didn’t.