The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[krupa]

8 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Very true. I also left out an innate love of the game. You gotta love it because banging out all those balls can get old quick.

That's what I don't understand when I see that Ericsson was all excited about Dan's attempt.  His (Ericsson's) paper on deliberate practice even mentioned that:

Quote

From many interviews with international-level performers in several domains, Bloom (1985b) found that these individuals start out as children by engaging in playful activities in the domain. After some period of playful and enjoyable experience they reveal "talent" or promise. At this point parents typically suggest the start of instruction by a teacher and limited amounts of deliberate practice. The parents support their children in acquiring regular habits of practice and teach their children about the instrumental value of deliberate practice by noticing improvements in performance. With increased experience and deliberate practice, individuals' performance in the domain reflects an inseparable combination of practice and innate talent. We rely on Bloom's (198 5b) characterization of the period of preparation in three phases, which are illustrated in Figure 1.

 

[nevets88]

1 minute ago, JetFan1983 said:

Yea you either have a kid who loves it or you don't, but a clever parent IMO can convince some children on the fence about the game that it truly is worth it. Most parents are too stupid for that though.

Gotta start young tho. As the body grows and develops, it has to grow around the absurdity that is the golf swing. Take for example those crazy Kayan women who add metal rings to their necks in order to elongate them over time:

IMO, something similar occurs to the human body when golf is introduced and constantly nurtured during childhood. The body grows and adapts to it in ways someone who picks the game up at 35 will never, ever have. 

Critical. Critical towards learning because no one can grind at the range like a child's body can too. And as we know, being able to get up and play every day without pain is a critical component to improving. Starting young opens so many doors... and what about junior golf and all that? Learning how to compete against kids in your age group is another massive advantage. Junior golf, high school golf college golf? Good lucky picking this shit up at 30 and being able to hang with the thousands who have gone through those gauntlets and come out of them with a truckload of trophies behind them. 

Totally agree with you. My interest though is more not how to go pro at a late age, but how to get people taking up the game late playing at a higher level, like me of course and a lot of folks here. Not asking the impossible right? I'm just wondering if this is a puzzle to be cracked and can be cracked. It's crazy to ask someone older to go on tour, but how about the schlepp who wants to get the most out of his/her ability?

[JetFan1983]

Dan's a ****ing moron. And there is no clearer evidence in regards to how stupid Dan is than in his concluding statements. "I just don't know what to write."

Really? You're THAT obtuse, dude? You know exactly what to write, but you can't bring yourself to do it.

Oh, the conclusion isn't some lame ass participation trophy but rather a bulging disc in your back that you're gonna have for life? It's those thirty pounds you clearly put on over the last few years because you can't exercise or be active like you used to because of what golf did to your lower spine? It's that you didn't even have a snowballs chance in hell? And now you can't publish that stupid ass book you were going to publish with you on the cover wearing a turtleneck looking like a genius who was gonna tell anyone willing to buy your book that everyone's dreams are attainable?

What. A. Dick. 

I realize that was harsh what I just said, but hey, he won't conclude it, so I guess that means it's up to "reader's interpretation" what the ending means lol. 

 

3 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Totally agree with you. My interest though is more not how to go pro at a late age, but how to get people taking up the game late playing at a higher level, like me of course and a lot of folks here. Not asking the impossible right? I'm just wondering if this is a puzzle to be cracked and can be cracked. It's crazy to ask someone older to go on tour, but how about the schlepp who wants to get the most out of his/her ability?

In that case you NEED the following:

1) Strength and durability: You need to just never get injured. You're already behind the 8-ball with time, and you cannot afford to not be playing and practicing six days a week. This is not negotiable. 

2) Genetic talent: You need to reach a realization about how to swing a golf club on the downswing sooner rather than later. That crap where you "can't shallow the downswing EVER?" Yea, you need to be able to bust through that phase in months, not years. Larry Nelson picked up golf at 21 and won three majors in the 1980s. YE Yang started playing golf at 19, but was a body builder at the time. There ARE anomalies that exist in this game.

They certainly exist, but you really need the physical tools in order to do it. You need strength, durability and a natural born ability to figure out how to hit a golf ball faster than the average person. If you start as a child, I think a wider range of people can pick up the game and one day master it. But once you reach adulthood, that genetic pool dries significantly, and only those left who can learn it are the truly talented ones who didn't have an adult in their life to introduce it to them as kids. And if they got the game as kids? Yang would probably have 2-3 more majors than he does now IMO. But I could be wrong on that. 

[nevets88]

I agree. Observer's paradox among other things.

[mchepp]

On 8/18/2017 at 8:42 AM, JetFan1983 said:

Dan's a ****ing moron. And there is no clearer evidence in regards to how stupid Dan is than in his concluding statements. "I just don't know what to write."

Really? You're THAT obtuse, dude? You know exactly what to write, but you can't bring yourself to do it.

Oh, the conclusion isn't some lame ass participation trophy but rather a bulging disc in your back that you're gonna have for life? It's those thirty pounds you clearly put on over the last few years because you can't exercise or be active like you used to because of what golf did to your lower spine? It's that you didn't even have a snowballs chance in hell? And now you can't publish that stupid ass book you were going to publish with you on the cover wearing a turtleneck looking like a genius who was gonna tell anyone willing to buy your book that everyone's dreams are attainable?

What. A. Dick. 

I realize that was harsh what I just said, but hey, he won't conclude it, so I guess that means it's up to "reader's interpretation" what the ending means lol. 

I know I've said this a lot in this thread and the articles but Dan is not like most people in this regard.

For starters his passion for golf is not even in the same solar system as yours. While I think he likes the game and the friendships it forms, I don't think he has spent anywhere near the amount of time practicing and obsessing as you or any of us who frequent this forum. I have spoken to golfers who play 1/10 as much as he did when he was at his peak and they have more passion for the game than he does.

This lack of passion is why he went the route he did. I think I better understand his passion now, it was the academic part. He got a high from speaking to professors and watching them listen to him. My bet is prior to this a professor at a university wouldn't have given him the time of day. He got to travel around telling everyone about the Plan. Golf was simply a vehicle. This, in my opinion, is what has driven everyone here mad. I think it gets viewed as a lack of respect for the game that we are all so passionate about. In many ways it is. This cannot be said enough, Dan does not love golf. I doubt he could become a professional because the minute it got hard he would have quit.

I think once I accepted that he really didn't care about golf I took the approach of substituting golf for throwing darts in every blog post or article where it said golf that was written. It helps. It takes my passion out of it.

By not caring about golf like we do, I can see how he doesn't care about a conclusion. Because he didn't finish he cannot be seen by the academics as anything but an abandoned experiment. The part he was passionate about is gone. So there is no conclusion. And as I said long ago, there never will be. 

[Runnin]

On 4/25/2011 at 5:53 AM, Lofty Lefty said:

 

I just hope he has a REALLY good chiropractor/physio.

This comment was dead on.

[GolfLug]

On 8/18/2017 at 11:42 AM, JetFan1983 said:

Dan's a ****ing moron. And there is no clearer evidence in regards to how stupid Dan is than in his concluding statements. "I just don't know what to write."

Really? You're THAT obtuse, dude? You know exactly what to write, but you can't bring yourself to do it.

Oh, the conclusion isn't some lame ass participation trophy but rather a bulging disc in your back that you're gonna have for life? It's those thirty pounds you clearly put on over the last few years because you can't exercise or be active like you used to because of what golf did to your lower spine? It's that you didn't even have a snowballs chance in hell? And now you can't publish that stupid ass book you were going to publish with you on the cover wearing a turtleneck looking like a genius who was gonna tell anyone willing to buy your book that everyone's dreams are attainable?

What. A. Dick. 

I realize that was harsh what I just said, but hey, he won't conclude it, so I guess that means it's up to "reader's interpretation" what the ending means lol. 

 

In that case you NEED the following:

1) Strength and durability: You need to just never get injured. You're already behind the 8-ball with time, and you cannot afford to not be playing and practicing six days a week. This is not negotiable. 

2) Genetic talent: You need to reach a realization about how to swing a golf club on the downswing sooner rather than later. That crap where you "can't shallow the downswing EVER?" Yea, you need to be able to bust through that phase in months, not years. Larry Nelson picked up golf at 21 and won three majors in the 1980s. YE Yang started playing golf at 19, but was a body builder at the time. There ARE anomalies that exist in this game.

They certainly exist, but you really need the physical tools in order to do it. You need strength, durability and a natural born ability to figure out how to hit a golf ball faster than the average person. If you start as a child, I think a wider range of people can pick up the game and one day master it. But once you reach adulthood, that genetic pool dries significantly, and only those left who can learn it are the truly talented ones who didn't have an adult in their life to introduce it to them as kids. And if they got the game as kids? Yang would probably have 2-3 more majors than he does now IMO. But I could be wrong on that. 

lol! Great post..

2 hours ago, mchepp said:

By not caring about golf like we do, I can see how he doesn't care about a conclusion. Because he didn't finish he cannot be seen by the academics as anything but an abandoned experiment. The part he was passionate about is gone. So there is no conclusion. And as I said long ago, there never will be. 

But that WAS the experiment right? That you can take anything without any innate talent, passion (or even respect, which I am not sure I agree - he picked golf because he knew how difficult it is) towards the subject matter and substitute ALL of it with a sincere 10,000 hours for a comparable achievement. In that sense there is conclusion. He didn't get there. 

But he DID get to a 6 at some point, IIRC (assuming it was honest). I say that is 90th percentile or better. That's pretty good for someone with no passion for the madness of this game or any other head starts afforded to most other 6s. 

Yet, there is no denying that in the end the mystery or mystique of Golf's X factor continues to prevail supreme. 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by GolfLug

[iacas]

4 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I agree. Observer's paradox among other things.

Nick's gone about achieving his own goals in a totally dumb way. He listens to a ton of people, and sticks with one thing from one instructor for only a short period of time.

[nevets88]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nick's gone about achieving his own goals in a totally dumb way. He listens to a ton of people, and sticks with one thing from one instructor for only a short period of time.

Like that YouTube guy, Be Better Golf I think.

[nevets88]

Hey, a post to his blog.

http://thedanplan.com/bouncing-back-a-return-to-australia/

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Hey, a post to his blog.

http://thedanplan.com/bouncing-back-a-return-to-australia/

Long overdue I'd say. 

[RandallT]

Wow, a post!

He mentions a return to SBS Insight. I found this YouTube clip:

 

Here's the video from the show's site, but I don't think I can watch it from the US. All I can find is that clip above. http://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/tvepisode/bouncing-back

 

[bones75]

It's a disappointing end (w/ or w/o "closure"), but I've got no hate for Dan. Yea, even w/ the same final outcome he could have handled things better to the people following him. But really it never cost me anything and I was entertained when he was still at it (regardless of any issues w/ his approach to the project and/or how he portrayed it). He also made it easy to follow his story... I remember checking out his stats page every few months, and it was kinda fun to just see it.

I'd prob still give it a google if I heard he was trying for the Senior tour in the future.

[Lihu]

6 hours ago, bones75 said:

I'd prob still give it a google if I heard he was trying for the Senior tour in the future.

At least all that short game emphasis he gave the game won't go to waste against the worlds best short game players. That is, if he has the long game to compete at all.

Like you I don't really have any hate for Dan at this point. His swing in the latest video looks pretty decent too. Hope he can still continue to play. . .

[bones75]

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

His swing in the latest video looks pretty decent too. Hope he can still continue to play. . .

I'm just curious, cuz I'm not very good at identifying such things.  Was there a general consensus of what was wrong w/ Dan's swing previously?  I thought his hip whip looked painful, but honestly so do many of the young ballers I see on the course.

[Lihu]

Just now, bones75 said:

I'm just curious, cuz I'm not very good at identifying such things.  Was there a general consensus of what was wrong w/ Dan's swing previously?  I thought his hip whip looked painful, but honestly so do many of the young ballers I see on the course.

The general consensus was that it wasn't nearly fast enough to compete. Of course, I might be a little biased.

106 mph is not even fast enough to compete in the Champions Tour. That's the official "average", but Dan was 36 with that SS.

[bones75]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The general consensus was that it wasn't nearly fast enough to compete. Of course, I might be a little biased.

106 mph is not even fast enough to compete in the Champions Tour. That's the official "average", but Dan was 36 with that SS.

I see.  I thought people were saying there was a glaring problem with his form, but never figured out exactly what it was.

[Lihu]

Just now, bones75 said:

I see.  I thought people were saying there was a glaring problem with his form, but never figured out exactly what it was.

For a guy who picked up golf in his 30s with about 6000 hours of practice and play, he plays really well. Just not well enough to think of competing even in club competitions much less the pros.