Long Putters and Belly Putters Taking Over

[bigoak]

I am a gluer and have only sold belly putters this summer.  Only anchor the putter on short putts.  Use a split grip for longer putts.  I have tried the broom stick putters and cannot get the hang of this style of putting,  The belly putter has been much better for distance control in my customers,  The only time to anchor the belly putter is when close to the hole but typically this is not necessary because it's a gimme tap in.  I don't know why the distance control is better but it just works and it is alot better on the bad backs.  Bending over with a short putter is a backache maker.  Putting two handed without anchoring for more putts works.  I am a streaky putter with a traditional putter but am more consistent with the belly and just cannot use the broomstick lengths at all.

[mikelegacy]

Since you share the opinion, could you please elaborate on how they are "hurting" the game of golf?

Long putters are QUICKLY improving poor putters games on the tour. What would normally have taken months of practice can now be improved upon in a couple rounds. I don't see why the putter is any different from any club in the sense that you don't see players on tour with drivers that have heads that are double sized so they can hit the ball easier or something crazy like that. There are strict guidelines on the size of a driver head and hell even the GROOVES of the irons are being restricted these days. I know that the mental image of that driver is just ridiculous haha, but my point is that all clubs in a players bag should generally be the same, save for some of the technology that goes into them. In a racing sport, there are STRICT guidelines that say that almost all the cars have to be essentially the same. This promotes competition and practicing and honing your skills. I feel that SOME tour pros are just going to the long putter because it's easier to use, instead of just practicing up their game with the putter they have. I didn't mean hurting the game in terms of the game being so different it doesn't feel like golf anymore, I'm just saying I feel that it is devaluing competition and promoting laziness. Long putters are almost like a cheat. Once you take a could days to learn to use them, you can get a perfect stroke at a WAY higher rate of that of a normal putter. At a local course I asked if I could rent a long putter since they had one and I did that a few times to see how it felt, and I was amazed at how easy it was. I didn't feel like I was doing my game any justice by doing that. I want to improve due to practice, not a club that essentially gives me a perfect putting stroke every time. It's just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. If you don't agree, and want to fight with me about it, you might as well not respond.

[carpediem4300]

if as alot of people on here claim that the belly/long putters promote an almost perfect, consistent putting stroke due to the nature of how they are used, then the only thing the users have to worry about are alignment,break,distance control,

whereas normal putter users have to also worry about the correct stroke, as a normal putter can take many paths to and from the ball,

so would that not deem the longer putters to have an advantage over regular putters?

[lumpuckeroo]

Originally Posted by iacas

I don't think that's the only sensible reason.

How about this: it's not the way golf is to be played.

My issue with it's not the way golf is to be played, then we would still be using hickory shafts and feathery balls.  All other equipment has changed, now we are seeing more changes with the putters.  I really don't see where anchoring the long putter to your body is different than some of the unique putter grips that we have seen.  Anchoring the shaft against your left forearm seems to be as much against the way golf is to be played as the long putter.

I still can't help but believe that all of these "fixes" are just desperate attempts to be a good putter, and good putters won't use long putters, good putters will always choose the more conventional route.  I still think it will be some time before we know if the long putter will change the face of the game.

[ghalfaire]

I'm not sure how to feel about the longer putters. They do seem to have revitalized some players games.  But so did draw bias drivers and such.  But I do agree that the long putters change the way the game is played by permitting one to "anchor" one end of the club while making a swing.  Having said that I'm not sure the long putter offers a significant advantage to all players, but time will tell.  As I said on another long putter thread they should not be allowed to determine a club length for purposed of relief under the rules.

[The Tin Man]

Going back to hickory and feathers isn't  practical. But, we can ban cavity back irons from the tour.

Note: I'm all for taking things that make the game easier from the hands of those who are supposed to be the best. The general public can and should keep their cavity backs and long putters.  (Everybody I have met using a long stick, really needs too and I'm not for denying them the right to play............but a PRO!  No mercy. If they can't play to a higher standard get a real job.)

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

As I said on another long putter thread they should not be allowed to determine a club length for purposed of relief under the rules.

That I certainly agree with.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by lumpuckeroo

My issue with it's not the way golf is to be played, then we would still be using hickory shafts and feathery balls. All other equipment has changed, now we are seeing more changes with the putters.

That's different. My objection is to HOW the clubs are used, not the material makeup of the clubs. The hickory clubs are still "swung" - the long putter I would argue is used in a different manner that, to me, seems at odds with "how golf is played."

My objection is to "how golf is played" not "with what golf is played."

Originally Posted by lumpuckeroo

I really don't see where anchoring the long putter to your body is different than some of the unique putter grips that we have seen.  Anchoring the shaft against your left forearm seems to be as much against the way golf is to be played as the long putter.

If the grip is only 11" long, you can't really anchor it to your left forearm either.

[walk18]

Ban them, for all the reasons stated earlier. And as a side note, they look ridiculous.

[newtogolf]

I found it interesting that Harvey Penick addressed long putters in his Little Red Book back in 1992.  He stated he didn't like them and thought they should be banned by making a rule that both hands must be touching each other throughout the swing.

[allin]

I don't think that's the only sensible reason.

How about this: it's not the way golf is to be played.

If you developed the yips and you could putt as poorly/as well as the 150th ranked putter on the PGA Tour by turning your putter around and hitting it with the flat part of the grip, should that be allowed (it's not, but go with the hypothetical)?* You'd still be a sucky putter, but it'd be an advantage to you. Adam Scott or whomever wouldn't be using the putter if they didn't feel it was an advantage to them.

Rather, the belly putter fundamentally changes the game. I'm of the opinion that anchoring something to your body fundamentally changes the way the game is played. And that's why I support banning them. I think it doesn't jive with the fact that the golf ball should be "struck" and the general unsaid "way" we play golf - by holding onto clubs with our hands together, standing to the side of the ball, and swinging the club. It requires a level of skill that "anchor this part to your body, stay still, and pull back the handle" doesn't, in my opinion.

I think we are seeing that it's an "advantage." So even if that's your definition, there's reason to ban them, too. But it depends on how you define "advantage." Adam Scott's not the best putter in the world, but he's improved, and if you gave him a regular putter, he'd probably get worse again.

So no, I don't think "an advantage" necessarily has to be the only reason.

Examples are difficult to come up with because so many things that would change the way the game is played are already illegal - like, say, setting the putter down behind the ball and "pushing" it into the hole.

Chippers didn't really offer an advantage - but they fundamentally changed the game by having a club with two purposes. What if the loft of each side was different? Plus one club with two faces could be used to get out from behind trees in a way that a player with "normal" equipment couldn't. You might say that's an advantage, but I never saw a good player with a two-faced chipper, so "proving" the advantage would be difficult.

I agree, but I do think the decision is past being reversed at this time. Originally the long putter was adopted by players with bad backs who could not practice for a reasonable length of time with standard putters. The advantages for players with the yips and other perceived advantages came later. In the end the rules are what is agreed on, if purity was the real criteria the modern sand wedge, golf carts, oversized putting grips, golf shoes with balance aids, all could be criticized. I would like the maximum length and use of clubs when being granted relief issue clarified. Since some of these putters are longer than my driver I feel this is an issue.

[sean_miller]

I'm all for the long putter. I'm a tall player and find the children's putters offered at most shops (< 34") hard on the back. As far as the anchoring things goes. I have no opinion (i.e. I don't care).

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I'm all for the long putter. I'm a tall player and find the children's putters offered at most shops (< 34") hard on the back. As far as the anchoring things goes. I have no opinion (i.e. I don't care).

This is a good point.

My 35 inch putter puts pressure on my lower back. I have tpo read the putt, address and putt quickly, otherwise I lose concentration on the putt because I am thinking about the feeling of someone drilling into my lower spine.

I probably wouldn't use one solely because it would be a pin in the ass with it sticking out of my stand bag, but it would probably be nicer on the back

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

This is a good point.

My 35 inch putter puts pressure on my lower back. I have tpo read the putt, address and putt quickly, otherwise I lose concentration on the putt because I am thinking about the feeling of someone drilling into my lower spine.

I probably wouldn't use one solely because it would be a pin in the ass with it sticking out of my stand bag, but it would probably be nicer on the back

That may be a reason for an individual to switch to a long putter, but not a reason for justifying them under the Rules. After all, nestling my club under the ball and scooping it out of a bunker is easier on my sore wrist (my wrist is fine, just go with this) than hitting it the way others do, so I'm just going to do that. Or this driver with a CoR of 0.96 is easier on my back because I don't have to swing as hard, so I'll just use that.

It may be misleading given how often I post on long putters, because I don't really care that much and I don't think we'll ever see a ban on them, but I do lean towards one side and will state that side when given the chance.

[sean_miller]

If users of the belly putter are allowed to scoop the ball then they certainly should be banned.  Personally I just want a putter that sets up like a 2-iron at address.

Originally Posted by iacas

That may be a reason for an individual to switch to a long putter, but not a reason for justifying them under the Rules. After all, nestling my club under the ball and scooping it out of a bunker is easier on my sore wrist (my wrist is fine, just go with this) than hitting it the way others do, so I'm just going to do that. Or this driver with a CoR of 0.96 is easier on my back because I don't have to swing as hard, so I'll just use that.

It may be misleading given how often I post on long putters, because I don't really care that much and I don't think we'll ever see a ban on them, but I do lean towards one side and will state that side when given the chance.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

If users of the belly putter are allowed to scoop the ball then they certainly should be banned.

Yeah. That's not what I said.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by iacas

That may be a reason for an individual to switch to a long putter, but not a reason for justifying them under the Rules. After all, nestling my club under the ball and scooping it out of a bunker is easier on my sore wrist (my wrist is fine, just go with this) than hitting it the way others do, so I'm just going to do that. Or this driver with a CoR of 0.96 is easier on my back because I don't have to swing as hard, so I'll just use that.

It may be misleading given how often I post on long putters, because I don't really care that much and I don't think we'll ever see a ban on them, but I do lean towards one side and will state that side when given the chance.

True, but placing a club and scooping a ball out of sand is an extreme example compared to a belly putter

Either way, I don't really have an opinion on the matter, because it doesn't bother me enough.

[sean_miller]

Not exactly, but yes you did suggest a club used to scoop the ball out of the sand was akin to a belly putter.

Originally Posted by iacas

Yeah. That's not what I said.