Jason Day's antics...

[newtogolf]

The difference is you're not competing, you're job is to write code.  I doubt your manager puts you head to head against a co-worker to develop an algorithm the fastest, where the winner gets to keep their job for the next week and loser goes home until the next application needs to be developed.   Yes bad behavior is bad behavior but if you can't see there's a difference between competing in a sport and writing code as part of your job then you're the one missing the point.

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Ok, then tell me: What exactly *is* the difference between playing golf at a professional level, vs writing software or doing anything else us mere mortals do in order to feed our families, that makes it ok for the professional golfer to fly off the handle but not ok for anyone else? .

I'll say it one more time: Bad behavior is bad behavior regardless of the excuses made for it.

[saevel25]

These guys job is golf, i think we can allow some leeway with how they act. I have no problems with showing emotion. If you get upset by that while watching, you let yourself get upset, if your that upset then don't watch golf.

[sacm3bill]

My only reason for jumping in to this thread was to refute the logic someone used when they said, "It's their job and they care about it" as an excuse for pro golfers getting upset. I responded by saying that if that was a valid reason, then ANYONE with a job they care about should be allowed to get upset. Obviously that's not the case, but apparently some people with poor reading comprehension took that to mean I don't see the difference between professional sports and developing software.

On the contrary, my point is that there *is* a difference, an unfortunate one in fact, where when paid athletes lose their temper and slam a club (and let me remind those of you saying that's not a big deal, that clubs have bounced into the gallery on some occasions), it's called "having drive and passion" or "just part of their youthful personality". Well, IMO that's just teaching kids that instead of handling adversity with grace, it's ok to lose their control or their temper, as long as the stakes are high enough. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a large section of society feels that way, or that I was unable to change any of your views on it.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

My only reason for jumping in to this thread was to refute the logic someone used when they said, "It's their job and they care about it" as an excuse for pro golfers getting upset.

Okay, it's fair to point out that it is more complicated than it simply being their job that they care about (which sounds like what you're getting at).  The live competition and thousands-to-million dollars that ride on any particular swing have more to do with it.

Brandon

[Texas solo]

This topic again?   We all have opinions on what we like/dislike in a player and have a right to those opinions. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

IMHO....there's NO PLACE for bad behavior.  I began watching the PGA last year when I picked the game up again, so all the PGA pros were new to me. No more Jack, Arnie, and Co.

I quickly saw some behavior that annoyed me, and I don't like several of today's players because of it. Last year I saw Sergio throw a club into the trees, he's on my shit list. I saw Vijay throw a club in the fairway, he's on my shit list. I saw Cabrerra throw a club over toward where his caddie was standing (throw, not toss) If I were his caddie, I would have left it there. He's on my shit list.

The backward hat thing with Fowler annoys me because it's disrespectful. What's next, wearing his pants so low that he shows his boxers?

I saw Jon Vegas arrive at the first tee at the Texas Valero Open with three women loaded in the cart. One on each leg and one on the back. Is the PGA going for the "rock star" image?

OK, call me an old fuddy duddy snob, or whatever, but that's my opinion.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

OFF topic:

As for the $$ part, well..I don't feel too awful sorry for $$ causing pressure, cuz basically, they ALL make more than the common working man,with not nearly as much effort. yes, practicing for 8 hours isn't my idea of a fun day, but it's better than being in a coal mine.... or a poultry processing plant... or Crab fisherman..or a ditch digger. For the time invested, they get MUCH better returns monetarily. Case in point: DJ Trahan has earned over 10 Mil in winnings on tour( Yahoo sports webpage) over the years ...thats' alot more $$ than  most farmer/timberman/fisherman/Auto worker/Doctor/Lawyer/WasteManagement worker/nurse/railroader/younameit earn with YEARS of training/experience....only pro sports pays that well( generalism). and sooner or later, that too will decline, as peoples' disposable incomes continue to shrink. it's happening already... look at NFL /Nascar/MLB/MLS.. all have seen significant declines in attendances and sponsors, ... that will spread to other Pro sports as well, unless the economy does an about face. aren't there PGA events that are being threatened by lack of sponsorship?? did I hear that correctly from a TV announcer,last week I believe ???     wouldn't/shouldn't surprise anyone if it's true....

The part you don't get or account for is the risk.  For every Fowler or DJ Trahan, there are 300+ guys who make $21k a year for ten years and end up with no career, when they could have done something else.  The reason those guys are paid so highly is the fact that not many who try to do that succeed.  On the other hand, someone who works in a coal mine or a poultry processing plant or a crab fisherman has a much better chance to "make it" and get one of those jobs.  And you say "only pro sports pays that well...", but if you average over all who try to do pro sports they pay horribly.  Pro sports pay well if you are one of the best in the world.  But guess what?  golf actually makes you very little compared to the best lawyer, or best doctor, or best almost anything, including craftsmen.  You can't just look at the top 300 golfers and compare it to the average of ALL in another profession.  Either compare top 300 to top 300 (in which case, I bet golf, as an occupation, is quite low on the list at ~$8m) or compare entire profession to entire profession.  You can't compare elite golfers to average lawyers or factory workers.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Texas solo

This topic again?   We all have opinions on what we like/dislike in a player and have a right to those opinions. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

IMHO....there's NO PLACE for bad behavior.  I began watching the PGA last year when I picked the game up again, so all the PGA pros were new to me. No more Jack, Arnie, and Co.

I quickly saw some behavior that annoyed me, and I don't like several of today's players because of it. Last year I saw Sergio throw a club into the trees, he's on my shit list. I saw Vijay throw a club in the fairway, he's on my shit list. I saw Cabrerra throw a club over toward where his caddie was standing (throw, not toss) If I were his caddie, I would have left it there. He's on my shit list.

The backward hat thing with Fowler annoys me because it's disrespectful. What's next, wearing his pants so low that he shows his boxers?

I saw Jon Vegas arrive at the first tee at the Texas Valero Open with three women loaded in the cart. One on each leg and one on the back. Is the PGA going for the "rock star" image?

OK, call me an old fuddy duddy snob, or whatever, but that's my opinion.

Well, I'm glad you don't run the PGA.

Brandon

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Ok, then tell me: What exactly *is* the difference between playing golf at a professional level, vs writing software or doing anything else us mere mortals do in order to feed our families, that makes it ok for the professional golfer to fly off the handle but not ok for anyone else? Is it because more money is at stake? If so then I'll remind you, as others have pointed out, that most professional golfers (and certainly Jason Day) are guaranteed to have a roof over their heads and food on their table regardless of how they hit their last shot. Having to worry about that gives the common man *more* license for bad behavior, not less.

I'll say it one more time: Bad behavior is bad behavior regardless of the excuses made for it.

The difference is that in competitive sports you have to be one of the best .0001% at your sport to make a living at it and there are thousands of guys breathing down your neck to replace you.  Writing code?  Not so much.

[Paradox]

I would just want to punch Jason Day in the face for how long he takes to hit a shot!

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by turtleback

... and there are thousands of guys breathing down your neck to replace you.  Writing code?  Not so much.

Ever heard of India?

[osgoodisgood]

Originally Posted by Paradox

I would just want to punch Jason Day in the face for how long he takes to hit a shot!

I couldn't agree more!

What's going on with him? He looks like he's channeling JB Holmes!

(I'm going to walk up and hit it. no I'm not, I'll have another look from back here, now I'll hit it, no actually I need another look, now this time I'll hit it, nope just one more looksee, now hit, no wait I have another swing thought to get through, now................HIT THE F*&%KING THING!!!!!!!!)

[WilsonWedgeMan]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

The part you don't get or account for is the risk.  For every Fowler or DJ Trahan, there are 300+ guys who make $21k a year for ten years and end up with no career, when they could have done something else.  The reason those guys are paid so highly is the fact that not many who try to do that succeed.  On the other hand, someone who works in a coal mine or a poultry processing plant or a crab fisherman has a much better chance to "make it" and get one of those jobs.  And you say "only pro sports pays that well...", but if you average over all who try to do pro sports they pay horribly.  Pro sports pay well if you are one of the best in the world.  But guess what?  golf actually makes you very little compared to the best lawyer, or best doctor, or best almost anything, including craftsmen.  You can't just look at the top 300 golfers and compare it to the average of ALL in another profession.  Either compare top 300 to top 300 (in which case, I bet golf, as an occupation, is quite low on the list at ~$8m) or compare entire profession to entire profession.  You can't compare elite golfers to average lawyers or factory workers.

risk? what risk? most have college degrees to fall back on...and I SERIOUSLY doubt that you'll find many 21K/yr golfers on Tour.... and obviously you haven't been to the coalfields,my friend..."make it"...well, that depends upon what you define that as....they make about $50/60k if thev've been there awhile, and thats' not NEARLY enough to get most folks 2 miles underground...I know some Lawyers may make big bucks, as well as CEOs, but I'm betting the average salary for ALL pro sports is well above the Nation average on income..welll above. look at last Sat race, where Carl Edwards won a cool Mill for 1 race...in fact, races were paying so well, that a few were settling for last places and parking their expensive cars after only a few laps...and it's still happening because of the $$$$$$$$....how many car salesman would do THAT !!!!

[Yukari]

Sorry, I haven't had a time to read to entire posts.  But weren't some people pissed at Tiger for throwing tantrums after a bad shot and a lot of people jumped on his back saying how bad it is for him to do that?

So why are many people defending Jason Day?

Just my 2 cents...

[Shorty]

Quote:

So why are many people defending Jason Day?

Because he didn't do anything.

[ElWagonne]

Originally Posted by WilsonWedgeMan

risk? what risk? most have college degrees to fall back on...and I SERIOUSLY doubt that you'll find many 21K/yr golfers on Tour.... and obviously you haven't been to the coalfields,my friend..."make it"...well, that depends upon what you define that as....they make about $50/60k if thev've been there awhile, and thats' not NEARLY enough to get most folks 2 miles underground...I know some Lawyers may make big bucks, as well as CEOs, but I'm betting the average salary for ALL pro sports is well above the Nation average on income..welll above. look at last Sat race, where Carl Edwards won a cool Mill for 1 race...in fact, races were paying so well, that a few were settling for last places and parking their expensive cars after only a few laps...and it's still happening because of the $$$$$$$$....how many car salesman would do THAT !!!!

There is some risk in being a pro golfer.  Unlike other pros' (i.e. MLB, NBA, NFL), most except for the very best pro golfers have to pay for their own travel expenses, which cuts into their winnings.  Also, state taxes have to be paid for each event, regardless of the state the golfer calls home (hence why so many golfers call TX and FL home).  I'd still switch jobs with them (pro golfer vs. software developer), but there is some risk involved there

[bplewis24]

It doesn't matter that these guys could make a good living if they gave up golf today.  Making a good living still doesn't numb the sting of losing millions in a tournament because you hit a poor 3wood that landed in the water hazard.  It may be going overboard to act as apologists for some pros' behavior, but it's impractical to expect them to not get upset over a horrible shot because at that moment they should be thinking about their investment opportunities.  That completely ignores the level of focus it takes to perform at their level.

Brandon

[B-Con]

More people vent their anger than is probably realized, everyone just uses the tools they have at the moment. I also work as a software developer and I've seen people bang their mouse on the desk, repeatedly stab a key on their computer, etc, to take out a moment of frustration when the code they just compiled didn't work properly, or something. A lot of people take out their anger, it's just that they use the tools of their trade to do so. It's all about the mental release, so in their mind it's about how they use those tools that lets out the frustration. Golfer just use their clubs, which are their tools. Also, developers tend to be introverts and quieter people. Their version of letting out anger is usually much more subdued than other people. In other professions, sadly, it would be more common for an angry person to pound a fist on a desk or yell at a subordinate. I hear that in higher levels of management, tempers can be all over the place. So, I don't think golfers get a free pass, I think it's just more obvious with them than others because we see every minute of their measured job. I bet no one gets to see their boss perform at all times, we would probably think less of their ability to handle pressure if we could. And maybe golfers do in fact do a little more expression than the average profession but it's probably not much. They feel what we feel, but when they act on it, due to the difference in job and personality, it looks more dramatic. That said, I don't believe that anger venting is a good thing to do or a good image to project. That would mainly be aggressive actions, like throwing clubs or yelling profanity, for example. But I don't see passive reactions as a problem. For example, I don't see any harm in a player dropping a club out of frustration. It's like letting out a long, deep sigh. Who hasn't done the equivalent of dropping a club? Maybe you messed up, then minimized a window, closed your eyes, and thought for a minute. The golfer just dropped his club, watched his ball, shook his head, then started walking as he thought about his shot. That's hardly a tantrum. Maybe some people think that looks unprofessional, but passive reactions are fairly subjective, you have to give people room to react to things in their own quiet, controlled way. Dropping a club is hardly outgoing or out of control. Of the dozens of clubs I've seen dropped, they're usually done in a very controlled, relatively gently way considering they were traveling at 90+ MPH just a split second before. Also, many players are action-oriented and at least somewhat extroverted. They know they're being watched, and when they mess up in front of people they want to make it clear to those same people what they thought of their performance. What appears to be anger-driven may have a more benign motivation: simple communication. It doesn't change what they did, but it may shift some of the motivations at work. What appeared to be a display of anger may just be an extrovert communicating disappointment. Sure we know he's disappointed, but he feels better if he tells us, and no one's sticking a microphone in his face at the moment. So in general, I think we can safely expect better of players to not cuss and throw clubs -- when they do they're behaving poorly. But I'll allow someone to act passively within themselves any day. I didn't see Jason Day on Sunday. But if he dropped a few clubs, then so be it. He has the right to quietly exhibit some frustration and communicate his displeasure with his performance. If he's being aggressively angry or being a jerk to his caddy, then he's behaving poorly and, as an adult, we would hope we could expect better out of him. If he's keeping it within himself, I don't think we should police how he handles the frustrations of his job. After all, the subtleties of how he [i]appears[/i] to handle is job [i]isn't[/i] his job. (BTW, another Sacramento-ite here. A lot of friends went to Sac State. :-) )

[greenshit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by B of H

This is their job and they care therefore they get pissed...simple as that.

My job is to sit behind a keyboard and write code. My job is often frustrating and I often get pissed, but it's not ok for me to act out by swearing, punching my monitor, or violently throwing my Starbucks Vivanno Smoothie to the ground. I've never understood why we give sports figures a pass just because they get paid to play.

And if you did do this, I'm ok with that.