2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[clarkeycats]

Mickleson +6 and just put another in the water on 12. Ouch.

[zipazoid]

I don't understand the penalty in the first place - I though when you hit the ball in the water you just had to keep the point where the ball entered the hazard between you and the hole..? Tiger could have gone 50 yards back if he wanted to...?

[eich41]

Originally Posted by clarkeycats

I think the rule that was added has left too much of a grey area. I agree that someone who signs the wrong scorecard should be DQ'd, but Tigers situation falls into the new rule. If that didn't exist then I think Tiger would have certainly been DQ'd.

Again I ask you since you haven't answered, what part of Tiger's rule infraction could not have been reasonably discovered prior to Tiger signing his scorecard?  That's the qualification for invoking rule 33-7.  He broke arguably the most basic rule in golf.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Augusta knows tiger not playing the weekend would cause a huge loss of revenue. This is why this decision was made. Anyone else. Gone

Augusta could care less about revenue.  But I agree Tiger is getting some special treatment here.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I don't understand the penalty in the first place - I though when you hit the ball in the water you just had to keep the point where the ball entered the hazard between you and the hole..? Tiger could have gone 50 yards back if he wanted to...?

Zip this has been discussed at length, the option you mention was not exercised.  If he had done this he would have dropped well left, the line the ball entered instead of replaying the shot.

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5 ); or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or
c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard , drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I don't understand the penalty in the first place - I though when you hit the ball in the water you just had to keep the point where the ball entered the hazard between you and the hole..? Tiger could have gone 50 yards back if he wanted to...?

He didn't play from that point.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I don't understand the penalty in the first place - I though when you hit the ball in the water you just had to keep the point where the ball entered the hazard between you and the hole..? Tiger could have gone 50 yards back if he wanted to...?

Me too.

[rehmwa]

CBS stinks. LIve coverage that's not on the internet would be the thing to do. Waiting until this afternoon is crappy

[laconic517]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Augusta could care less about revenue.  But I agree Tiger is getting some special treatment here.

I think they realized they would be screwing him over because they didnt do their due diligence when investigating the rule.

If they hadnt been notified about it until today I have a feeling they would have DQ'ed him.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Stretch

"I was investigated by the Cops/DA/Feds without my knowledge and thank goodness they wrongly decided they had nothing on me. Because when I did incriminate myself later by mistake, that still qualified me for country-club prison instead of pound-me-in-the-ass prison."

And no, this was not from personal experience, butt thanks for asking.

[RetroJFrancisco]

I hated tiger woods before, an arrogance full of his own self importance twat.. Now this? I wont be tuning into the masters tonight, the Rules that be in America have basically said.. "You have your own set of rules and we'll make some up for tiger when he does stuff wrong"

This is the most angry ive ever been about golf/the rules of it.

Should have been man enough to accept his DQ and I would have had some respect for the man.

And that chinese kid gets a shot pen for slow play, yeah right.. Ive seen ben crane play and I can tell you, he was much longer..They just threw their weight around cause he is an AM..

Rules for one rules for all I thought? Not anymore.. What a disgrace.

[jamo]

I don't understand the penalty in the first place - I though when you hit the ball in the water you just had to keep the point where the ball entered the hazard between you and the hole..? Tiger could have gone 50 yards back if he wanted to...?

[quote name="Ernest Jones" url="/t/65568/2013-masters-discussion-thread-update-with-possible-illegal-drop-from-tiger-post-343/780_30#post_831807"]Me too. [/quote] You can go backwards from where the ball last crossed the hazard line . His ball hit the flagstick and ricocheted about 30˚ left, so he could go backwards across the hazard from that point. He would have been in the grandstands way off to the side.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

The rule states:

26-1. Relief For Ball In Water Hazard

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that a ball struck toward a water hazard, but not found, is in thehazard, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

Because b provides "no limit  to how far behind",  can't you drop further back than the point in A as long as it is on the same line?  Tiger was really penalized because it was not on the same line, correct?

Yes.

[thanw]

The rules of golf are so complicated even tournament officials can't get it right. So basically if Tiger keeps his mouth shut no penalty. He opens his mouth and gets a 2 stroke penalty instead of being DQ'd for an incorrect scorecard like he should have been. If Tiger and the Masters officials don't even know the rules I'll be damned if I try to follow them.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Me too.

You have to keep on the same line that the ball entered the hazard.  So in this instance, the ball entered the hazard after hitting the flagstick and rolling back into the hazard on the far left side of the green.  Therefore Tiger had the option to play as far back as he wanted to, but it had to be on the line formed by the point the ball entered the hazard and the flagstick (which would have been on the far left side of hole, probably not even in play, not where his original ball lied on the right.

[HOT IRISH]

So TV coverage is completely irrelevant, but the whole imposition of the penalty was based on TV coverage of a post-round interview.  OK, then.

The whole premise of following the rules of the game is based on a player calling rules infringements on themselves & whether he realised it doing an interview or talking to his mother about it later is not relevant to the argument. The fact is he said he improved his position by dropping in the wrong place & then signed for the wrong score without correcting the mistake. That's a DQ in the rules of golf, TV is not relevant (or shouldn't have been) in this incident.

[jamo]

http://thesandtrap.com/chat

[thanw]

How flipping close does it have to be anyway? Is he supposed to take a drop right into his own divot?

[noSnowman]

Tiger is the PGA Golden boy.$$$$