2013 Barclay's Championship Discussion Thread

[iacas]

Originally Posted by phan52

I know he is far more dramatic than I am when hurting. Now, THAT'S a FACT.

I'm pretty darn close to restricting you from the thread for your continued silliness.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by phan52

I know he is far more dramatic than I am when hurting. Now, THAT'S a FACT.

[Zeph]

This entire discussion is stupid. Nobody but Tiger knows what kind of pain he was or is in. Trying to argue that he wasn't in pain and faked it is just completely useless. Same goes with comparing pain of other players. You can't even measure pain. Even if some people grimace more than others, so what? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Don't forget that the cameras are on Tiger the entire time, so they pick up everything.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm pretty darn close to restricting you from the thread for your continued silliness.

What is silly about it? Excuse me for having an opinion. I don't believe Tiger was a hurt as everybody is making it out to be. And his body language has had the intended effect on the collective masses, particularly the media.

You want to see silly? Restrict me for having an opinion. Sheesh.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by phan52

What is silly about it? Excuse me for having an opinion. I don't believe Tiger was a hurt as everybody is making it out to be. And his body language has had the intended effect on the collective masses, particularly the media.

You want to see silly? Restrict me for having an opinion. Sheesh.

YES. OPINION. Stop using the word fact.

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by phan52

I don't believe Tiger was a hurt as everybody is making it out to be. And his body language has had the intended effect on the collective masses, particularly the media.

now THAT is a better comment.  Underline is my emphasis

Tiger didn't do anything other than work through the round and not complain too much.  A reaction to pain, going to his knees, isn't a big deal.  Or going to his knees on a bad shot (or a great putt, etc) is just him doing his thing - and many other players too for that matter.  It's a big "so what".

BUT, the MEDIA is the one that played it up, not the player.  If you go down that route, I do think the media overplays everything just to try and create nonsensical drama - that really adds nothing.

I don't think his body language had any intent from Tiger - he's just golfing.  Now the media, that's another story.

(the players performances were great drama.  Sometimes, I wish the commentators would just go silent)

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

I don't believe Tiger was a hurt as everybody is making it out to be. And his body language has had the intended effect on the collective masses, particularly the media.

Originally Posted by rehmwa

now THAT is a better comment.  Underline is my emphasis

Tiger didn't do anything other than work through the round and not complain too much.  A reaction to pain, going to his knees, isn't a big deal.  Or going to his knees on a bad shot (or a great putt, etc) is just him doing his thing - and many other players too for that matter.  It's a big "so what".

BUT, the MEDIA is the one that played it up, not the player.  If you go down that route, I do think the media overplays everything just to try and create nonsensical drama - that really adds nothing.

I don't think his body language had any intent from Tiger - he's just golfing.  Now the media, that's another story.

(the players performances were great drama.  Sometimes, I wish the commentators would just go silent)

Exactly. It is my opinion that, while it probably hurt when he hit the shot (because I am not arguing that he wasn't in some pain), the dropping to the knees was more a reaction to the horrendous ball flight. It was obviously a delayed reaction. But it's not ALL the media as you profess. The slow and pained rise to his feet just accentuated it. Drama. He's good at it.

[RandallT]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

...Sometimes, I wish the commentators would just go silent...

During the Barclay's tournament, I'd often have the Golf Channel's coverage of the European Tour event at Gleneagles on in the background, as we were hanging around in the morning, getting ready to do whatever we were up to that day. My college age daughter at first objected to how boring the coverage was, but then by the end of day 2 or 3 of listening to it while she did whatever she does on her computer, she said, "Oh my god, those guys are so soothing."  She actually enjoyed having their golf coverage on in the background, because it was relaxing! She was disappointed the tournament ended, and even more so, because she flies back to the University of Maine today :-)

While I had the Barclay's on, she thought the coverage was more grating and "hyped up."

I agree with her actually. The European tour announcers can just lull you into a nice relaxed feel. Was better than the music we typically have on.

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by phan52

Drama. He's good at it.

Bull - I think he really doesn't care one bit about the audience at all.

[RonTheSavage]

Bingo!!!!

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by phan52

What is silly about it? Excuse me for having an opinion. I don't believe Tiger was a hurt as everybody is making it out to be. And his body language has had the intended effect on the collective masses, particularly the media.

Actually, you're one of the few that's making it out to be anything or believing you know to what level he was hurt.  Most other people don't claim to know how much he was or wasn't hurting.

And how the hell do you know what his body language was intending to do?  How do you know there was any intent behind it at all?  It's just more of the same crap.  If somebody else winces from pain, no sinister intentions.  Most likely it's simply an involuntary reaction.  But Tiger?  Must be something to it.  Maybe he's sending a message to Elin that he wants her back?  Maybe it's some cryptic message that he secretly longs for the instruction of Butch Harmon again?  Must speculate!

Maybe the guy who won the US Open on a broken leg while sometimes exhibiting pain is now a drama queen who always overplays injuries.  I remember during that round people believed he was overplaying his injuries as well.  Whatever.  Who cares?  If that's what you want to believe, go for it.  Accept it, and get over it, for Christ's sake.

[grubby98]

I work in the medical field and all pain is subjective.  It is what the person says it is.  Each person reacts differently based on many different factors.  One big issue with back pain is it can easily come and go in seconds and be tight for longer periods.  But its Tiger, and he has a camera on him every second he is on the course during a tournament.  So nothing is missed at all for his entire day.

[boil3rmak3r]

Exactly. It is my opinion that, while it probably hurt when he hit the shot (because I am not arguing that he wasn't in some pain), the dropping to the knees was more a reaction to the horrendous ball flight. It was obviously a delayed reaction. But it's not ALL the media as you profess. The slow and pained rise to his feet just accentuated it. Drama. He's good at it.

I have no clue why I'm even posting this, as most seem to be convinced that you are an idiot for thinking Tiger was being a bit of a drama queen. But, I guess I'll open myself up to the same scrutiny... My father and I were watching that shot where Tiger went to his knees and immediately just rolled our eyes... In looking at the video later, Tiger made a full and complete follow-thru, watched the ball travel a ways, and then went to his knees. I am of the OPINION that this was him wanting everyone to know that his horrendous shot was a result of his injury. It's interesting that the back spasm seemed to kick in well after he hit his shot. If the violent swing triggered the back spasm, I would have expected an immediate falling to the knees... Of course, spasms can hit at any time, so i suspect others will simply say that the spasm probably hit him once the follow-thru was completed, and that's why he showed no discomfort until he was seeing where the ball was going to end up. That's their OPINION, though. I do believe Tiger had back issues. Could he have gone to his knees simply because of the pain? Sure. To all you naysayers, isn't it also possible that he hammed it up a bit simply because of the terrible shot? If you answer no to this question, then you are doing the same thing that Phan had done, saying that your opinion is fact...

[theworldengine]

During the Barclay's tournament, I'd often have the Golf Channel's coverage of the European Tour event at Gleneagles on in the background, as we were hanging around in the morning, getting ready to do whatever we were up to that day. My college age daughter at first objected to how boring the coverage was, but then by the end of day 2 or 3 of listening to it while she did whatever she does on her computer, she said, "Oh my god, those guys are so soothing."  She actually enjoyed having their golf coverage on in the background, because it was relaxing! She was disappointed the tournament ended, and even more so, because she flies back to the University of Maine today :-) While I had the Barclay's on, she thought the coverage was more grating and "hyped up."   I agree with her actually. The European tour announcers can just lull you into a nice relaxed feel. Was better than the music we typically have on.

Pics?

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I have no clue why I'm even posting this, as most seem to be convinced that you are an idiot for thinking Tiger was being a bit of a drama queen. But, I guess I'll open myself up to the same scrutiny...

My father and I were watching that shot where Tiger went to his knees and immediately just rolled our eyes... In looking at the video later, Tiger made a full and complete follow-thru, watched the ball travel a ways, and then went to his knees. I am of the OPINION that this was him wanting everyone to know that his horrendous shot was a result of his injury. It's interesting that the back spasm seemed to kick in well after he hit his shot. If the violent swing triggered the back spasm, I would have expected an immediate falling to the knees... Of course, spasms can hit at any time, so i suspect others will simply say that the spasm probably hit him once the follow-thru was completed, and that's why he showed no discomfort until he was seeing where the ball was going to end up. That's their OPINION, though.

I do believe Tiger had back issues. Could he have gone to his knees simply because of the pain? Sure. To all you naysayers, isn't it also possible that he hammed it up a bit simply because of the terrible shot? If you answer no to this question, then you are doing the same thing that Phan had done, saying that your opinion is fact...

I don't believe anyone stated that Tiger couldn't have been exaggerating, we were pointing out that Phan had no way of knowing that he was faking. We simply pointed out that back pain can/will drop people to their knees and can/does come unexpectedly. Nobody besides Phan was trying to make a 100% definitive statement about the "realness" of the pain Tiger felt at that moment.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I have no clue why I'm even posting this, as most seem to be convinced that you are an idiot for thinking Tiger was being a bit of a drama queen. But, I guess I'll open myself up to the same scrutiny...

My father and I were watching that shot where Tiger went to his knees and immediately just rolled our eyes... In looking at the video later, Tiger made a full and complete follow-thru, watched the ball travel a ways, and then went to his knees. I am of the OPINION that this was him wanting everyone to know that his horrendous shot was a result of his injury. It's interesting that the back spasm seemed to kick in well after he hit his shot. If the violent swing triggered the back spasm, I would have expected an immediate falling to the knees... Of course, spasms can hit at any time, so i suspect others will simply say that the spasm probably hit him once the follow-thru was completed, and that's why he showed no discomfort until he was seeing where the ball was going to end up. That's their OPINION, though.

I do believe Tiger had back issues. Could he have gone to his knees simply because of the pain? Sure. To all you naysayers, isn't it also possible that he hammed it up a bit simply because of the terrible shot? If you answer no to this question, then you are doing the same thing that Phan had done, saying that your opinion is fact...

No, he's an idiot (your word, not mine) for INSISTING that his opinion was a fact.  The post you quoted, in and of itself, is fine, but he stated repeatedly - prior to being called out - that his opinion was "fact."  (It's also not the first time he's done that so I have a bit of a quick trigger in response to him)

Nobody else has said that they KNOW exactly what Tiger is feeling or going through, so we have no reason to think that his reactions are anything but genuine.  We're not saying anything isn't possible, just saying what we think is most likely.  Presumably (since you're a member of this board) you follow a lot of golf, so let me ask you this:  Can you cite an example of something Tiger has done or said in the past where he gave off even the slightest inkling of an impression that he actually gave a f**k what anybody thought of him?  Why would he decide now, on this particular random shot, that he worried what we'd all think of him to the point that he needed to justify his bad shot to us?  Do understand where I'm coming from?  Further, it was been cited in this thread, that a few years ago he showed that he was in a lot of pain on the golf course, and it turned out that he was winning a US Open with a broken leg.  Surely, you wouldn't suggest that he was "hamming it up" then, would you?

Lastly, as I've said before, I have had back spasms numerous times in the past and some of the reactions I've had are very similar to his.  The stuff in your post that I highlighted in bold makes it pretty clear to me that you have not had serious back problems before. :)  (Consider yourself lucky!!!)

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by RandallT

During the Barclay's tournament, I'd often have the Golf Channel's coverage of the European Tour event at Gleneagles on in the background, as we were hanging around in the morning, getting ready to do whatever we were up to that day. My college age daughter at first objected to how boring the coverage was, but then by the end of day 2 or 3 of listening to it while she did whatever she does on her computer, she said, "Oh my god, those guys are so soothing."  She actually enjoyed having their golf coverage on in the background, because it was relaxing! She was disappointed the tournament ended, and even more so, because she flies back to the University of Maine today :-)

While I had the Barclay's on, she thought the coverage was more grating and "hyped up."

I agree with her actually. The European tour announcers can just lull you into a nice relaxed feel. Was better than the music we typically have on.

Yeah, I really like about the European Tour telecasts as well.  Not to mention how cool it is that one of the announcers is named Doogie!  (I think it's spelled Dougie, but it's pronounced with a "Dooo" ;))

The other thing I love is the perspective the give, visually, when each group is in the fairway.  Frequently, it starts out with a google earth map from above of the entire course, with the particular hole highlighted, then it zooms into that hole with a dot and a players name showing their exact location on said hole.  The PGA tour broadcasts usually only show a flyover of each hole once during the day, with the occasional blimp shots thrown in too.  Otherwise, it's just close ups of guys hitting shots.

[phan52]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r


I have no clue why I'm even posting this, as most seem to be convinced that you are an idiot for thinking Tiger was being a bit of a drama queen. But, I guess I'll open myself up to the same scrutiny...

My father and I were watching that shot where Tiger went to his knees and immediately just rolled our eyes... In looking at the video later, Tiger made a full and complete follow-thru, watched the ball travel a ways, and then went to his knees. I am of the OPINION that this was him wanting everyone to know that his horrendous shot was a result of his injury. It's interesting that the back spasm seemed to kick in well after he hit his shot. If the violent swing triggered the back spasm, I would have expected an immediate falling to the knees... Of course, spasms can hit at any time, so i suspect others will simply say that the spasm probably hit him once the follow-thru was completed, and that's why he showed no discomfort until he was seeing where the ball was going to end up. That's their OPINION, though.

I do believe Tiger had back issues. Could he have gone to his knees simply because of the pain? Sure. To all you naysayers, isn't it also possible that he hammed it up a bit simply because of the terrible shot? If you answer no to this question, then you are doing the same thing that Phan had done, saying that your opinion is fact...

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

No, he's an idiot (your word, not mine) for INSISTING that his opinion was a fact.  The post you quoted, in and of itself, is fine, but he stated repeatedly - prior to being called out - that his opinion was "fact." (It's also not the first time he's done that so I have a bit of a quick trigger in response to him)

Dude, you need to lighten up. Also, get your sarcasm detector checked because it is defective. Part of what I said was facetiously remarking on the level of the drama.

Quote:

Nobody else has said that they KNOW exactly what Tiger is feeling or going through, so we have no reason to think that his reactions are anything but genuine. We're not saying anything isn't possible, just saying what we think is most likely. Presumably (since you're a member of this board) you follow a lot of golf, so let me ask you this: Can you cite an example of something Tiger has done or said in the past where he gave off even the slightest inkling of an impression that he actually gave a f**k what anybody thought of him? Why would he decide now, on this particular random shot, that he worried what we'd all think of him to the point that he needed to justify his bad shot to us? Do understand where I'm coming from? Further, it was been cited in this thread, that a few years ago he showed that he was in a lot of pain on the golf course, and it turned out that he was winning a US Open with a broken leg. Surely, you wouldn't suggest that he was "hamming it up" then, would you?

And you think Tiger doesn't care what people think of him? Really? After he totally messed up his personal life and became a pariah and lost millions of dollars in sponsorships? Now who is being disingenuous? That dude had a lot of repair work to do in his life. You sound like a complete apologist with a statement like that. He is well aware at all times about what people think he is doing. If he's not he's stupid, but I don't think Tiger is stupid.

As far as the falling to his knees, watch the shot. If you think it wasn't more a reaction to the result of the shot, more power to you. I watched in a room with five other people and we would all disagree with you. Yeah, he was hurting, but not to the degree that the pandering idiots on TV made it out to be. Unfortunately, unlike the vast majority of players on the PGA Tour Tiger is going to get the benefit of the doubt from the golf powers-that-be, whether the media or the tour. The ruling at the Masters was a case-in-point.

Quote:

Lastly, as I've said before, I have had back spasms numerous times in the past and some of the reactions I've had are very similar to his. The stuff in your post that I highlighted in bold makes it pretty clear to me that you have not had serious back problems before. :) (Consider yourself lucky!!!)

As I've stated before, I HAVE had them and I will state once more whether you like it or not:  if he had them to the level I had them 30 years ago, it is a FACT that he would not have been on a golf course. You have no idea what I was going through. So get off the high horse.

It is my opinion he was being over-dramatic. Deal with it.