Jump to content
IGNORED

Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?


Foursum Golf

Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?  

129 members have voted

  1. 1. Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?



Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

You keep saying this, but the reality is most of the posters in this thread, who don’t want the rule changed, gave valid reasons. You don’t like it, but the vast majority of golfers who compete just play the lie as the find it.

Golfers who don’t keep a HC are irrelevant to this discussion. 

Listen Billy, you are a good contributor to this forum, but I think you are off target when you say it would be easy to write the rule. Part of my job for the last 31 years was to write procedures, test methods and reports that would pass scrutiny in an FDA audit. I’ve been through many audits. There can be no gray areas in what I did. It has to be black and white. The Rules writers for golf have taken this into consideration and using the Principles decided the only black and white line would be no relief.

We can’t have competitors arbitrarily declaring any imperfection they don’t like as a divot. Heck, I played today and the fairways were what you’d expect for March in Massachusetts, bumpy, some dirt, patches of dead grass and maybe old divots. I still played it as it was because I may come to that in scoring season.

They are not going to change it.

Thanks for your post, well written! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

12 hours ago, Rulesman said:

I don't see why people can't cope

For most of the time they can, but I have been in in divots where the most you can do is advance it maybe 50 yards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

9 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

For most of the time they can, but I have been in in divots where the most you can do is advance it maybe 50 yards.

Not buying that Billy. You must play one hell of a lot ‘a golf. And if you did...you’d be able to do better than advance it 50yds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Not buying that Billy. You must play one hell of a lot ‘a golf. And if you did...you’d be able to do better than advance it 50yds. 

You were not in my divot last year, the one I am referencing? Honestly, I advanced it further than my opponents thought I could. It was a deep gash in the ground, about 1 1/4" deep, vertical wall on the front end where my ball came to rest. Some hacker hit a terrible shot, I would guess, and said 'screw it, I'm not going to fix it'. Now these type are not that common, but my ball found it with zero chance to go at the elevated green, over water, from 160 yds. Literally impossible. Whether you 'buy it' or not, that's ok, but I was the one in it. Not even a professional would be able/capable to hit the green from this predicament, period. It was an uncommon situation, but accurate to what I described.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
25 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

You were not in my divot last year, the one I am referencing? Honestly, I advanced it further than my opponents thought I could. It was a deep gash in the ground, about 1 1/4" deep, vertical wall on the front end where my ball came to rest. Some hacker hit a terrible shot, I would guess, and said 'screw it, I'm not going to fix it'. Now these type are not that common, but my ball found it with zero chance to go at the elevated green, over water, from 160 yds. Literally impossible. Whether you 'buy it' or not, that's ok, but I was the one in it. Not even a professional would be able/capable to hit the green from this predicament, period. It was an uncommon situation, but accurate to what I described.

And sometimes you hit a ball and it's right behind a tree. Or takes a bad hop off a cart path and goes OB.

Goodness. Move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

but I have been in in divots where the most you can do is advance it maybe 50 yards.

Ok. So you were in a bad one last year. You said ‘divots’. A rare event happened last year, once. Like Erik said....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
41 minutes ago, iacas said:

And sometimes you hit a ball and it's right behind a tree. Or takes a bad hop off a cart path and goes OB.

Goodness. Move on.

but most golfers want those rules changed! 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I’m late to the party. Haven’t really read through all of the responses completely but I voted yes. My thought is that it really sucks to have to play from a divot when you hit a drive in the fairway. 
 

That said I think the issue is that writing a clear rule as to what constitutes a “divot” would become an issue. I also could see being slower in competition because of constant rulings needed when players claim any little imperfection in the fairway to be a divot. 
 

Don’t think there can ever be a way to make this rule change without issues. Best to leave it where it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I'm also late to the party, and I feel like I've commented on this issue before, possibly in this thread, but the system shows this as a thread I haven't posted in?  

Anyway.  I don't think it should be ground under repair, partly for the definitional reason.  

I can't be the only person who practices hitting out of a divot with a few shots when I'm at a grass range.  If you don't do that, do it.  You never know when you'll be in a divot during a strict-rules situation.  And if you aren't in a strict rules situation, don't move the ball either, because you could use the practice.

Remember:  just because you're in a divot doesn't mean you're in a hole. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Fun (or not so fun) fact: I played this weekend on a course that used to be in great shape, in a gated community, etc... It must have fallen on hard times, which is weird in the COVID-growth era. The fairways were like mine fields, unrepaired divot holes everywhere! My cart partner and I combined for being in 4 such holes in our round, at 2 a piece. It was in a tournament round too. And no, hitting from those, the results were not fugly or tremendous, kind of in between... But it just shows that the odds of being in one such hole may not be 3-5 per year for everyone! :beer:

And now:

:offtopic:

And that's without mentioning the gazillion holes on the green, following aeration (it's that time of the year after all, around here). At least we were covered by a (local?) rule that allows moving the ball out of such a hole to start a putt. Yeah!

Edited by sjduffers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

12 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

But it just shows that the odds of being in one such hole may not be 3-5 per year for everyone!

It doesn’t really show anything.🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

It doesn’t really show anything.🙂

Sort of. Nor does saying as a blanket statement that it is a rare event. It varies. A. Lot. I know it happened a lot more than usual that day. 4 times between two players in a single round is a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

24 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Sort of. Nor does saying as a blanket statement that it is a rare event. It varies. A. Lot. I know it happened a lot more than usual that day. 4 times between two players in a single round is a lot.

Well...I humbly disagree. If a man gets struck by lightning...he’s incorrect to say, ‘ Well so much for this being a rare event...it varies.’

Sure events can vary..but overall hitting into a divot hole on a golf course is a rare  happening. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
41 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Sort of. Nor does saying as a blanket statement that it is a rare event. It varies. A. Lot. I know it happened a lot more than usual that day. 4 times between two players in a single round is a lot.

No it’s still a rare event.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
58 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Fun (or not so fun) fact: I played this weekend on a course that used to be in great shape, in a gated community, etc... It must have fallen on hard times, which is weird in the COVID-growth era. The fairways were like mine fields, unrepaired divot holes everywhere! My cart partner and I combined for being in 4 such holes in our round, at 2 a piece. It was in a tournament round too. And no, hitting from those, the results were not fugly or tremendous, kind of in between... But it just shows that the odds of being in one such hole may not be 3-5 per year for everyone! :beer:

And now:

:offtopic:

And that's without mentioning the gazillion holes on the green, following aeration (it's that time of the year after all, around here). At least we were covered by a (local?) rule that allows moving the ball out of such a hole to start a putt. Yeah!

Crappy ground can be like that. As the courses open here, the ground is really variable. Some patches here that look like divots may just be bare ground waiting for grass to grow back in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

20 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Well...I humbly disagree. If a man gets struck by lightning...he’s incorrect to say, ‘ Well so much for this being a rare event...it varies.’

Sure events can vary..but overall hitting into a divot hole on a golf course is a rare  happening. 

Yes getting hit by lightning is rare and it still happens alright, but getting hit twice is extremely rare. However it happens more in areas susceptible to have lightning in the first place.

Not every situation is equal in the face of global statistics. Some courses are bound to have more instances of balls in divot holes than others. This course is one of them, apparently: did I mentioned that the divot holes were all (or nearly all) unrepaired and there were a lot of them? I also have played lots of times on courses where I don't ever recall being in a divot hole and their overall maintenance was much better too. Hence my correct statement. It varies. A. Lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

15 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Crappy ground can be like that. As the courses open here, the ground is really variable. Some patches here that look like divots may just be bare ground waiting for grass to grow back in.

True, but it was not like that at all. These were clearly defined divot holes (meaning recent ones), in the typical divot shape, occurring  seemingly uniformly in common landing areas, every foot or even less. Just a course with lots of play (aren't they all these days?) and seemingly little maintenance. And indeed, there were also areas with bare ground and areas less watered. California is in another drought after all, as we had another pretty dry winter following the one last year...

I should have taken a picture, but sadly I didn't. And it's a course that is a long drive from home (85 miles or so each way), so I won't making the trip back anytime soon...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct links for Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package. Save 10% on Mevo with coupon code "IACAS" as well.
  • Posts

    • Yet another question about the technology for filming a swing. I read Erik's updated "Filming your Swing" blog post as part of researching my next phone purchase. My current phone, which is on its last legs, was able to record video up to 1080p at up to 120 fps (Pixel 3XL).  However, that camera isn't great at the moment (various reasons unrelated to its specifications) and I'm going to get a new device soon, too.  Its likely successor for me is only able to do 30fps at 1080p, so that won't work for filming a golf swing.  It can do 720p @ 480 fps though (device I'm likely to get is a Galaxy A42).  Will that work for this?  I realize the post says "at least 720p video," but I don't know if I should shoot for better than that (such as if it is expected to be outdated soon).  It also seems odd to me that a camera could do only 30fps at 1080p but 480 fps at 720p, but I know almost nothing about these things. I am also debating getting a separate camera for golf swings if this won't work;  my prior separate-camera is a Canon PowerShot ELPH 110.  I believe it tops out at 720p / 30 fps;  if there's a reasonably priced camera that works for my golf swing filming, I'd be happy to get that and not sweat the camera on the phone. Other than filming my golf swing, my phone is pretty much a communication device and podcast player, so I'm not going higher end except if doing so is the most effective way to get a good camera for my golf swing. (Apologies if this should have been a separate thread, but I figured it was on-topic here and I didn't think there was another forum than Member Swings where this would be an appropriate top-level post)
    • Day 127: Played 18 this morning. Tried to simplify the mechanics of my priority piece (which is two things) into a feel but didn’t work great, so just settled on on of them after a few holes. Played okay except for a dumb triple bogey on #12.
    • I got my first round in. I haven't used Game Golf in so long, I got out of the habit of tagging. Missed a few shots on the course, though it was pretty easy to edit in on my computer. Like @iacas, I also felt the editor was just okay. I didn't have an issue with the map size, but I found scrolling up and down a lot a bit tedious. I had to mess around with adding shots and penalties, though, so I had to spend more time editing off the map. The penalty functions weren't very intuitive. They seem to add an additional "dead shot" (does not appear to track the distance for your stats) for counting purposes as well as a penalty stroke. The lost ball one makes sense, as it gives you a marker with an X on it so you can mark off where you hit the ball that was lost, then your next shot is from where you played your last stroke to where you play your next one. But the drop ball function seems to work the exact same way, which doesn't make sense. If I hit into a penalty area I'm likely not taking S&D, so in order to make it work score-wise, I ended up just deleting the original tracked shot. I don't know if I'm doing that correctly. I didn't like tagging on my belt the way I used Game Golf. As Erik mentioned, the vibration is subtle and it doesn't beep. I often didn't know if it registered. Also the Game Golf unit was angled so you can tag the club hanging down at your side naturally. Tagging the Shot Scope requires bringing the club perpendicular to the ground. It's awkward and I almost hit a playing partner today while tagging a putt because he was walking past me and didn't expect me to bring the club up like that. Next time I'm going to try wearing the unit on my left like I do my Garmin and tagging by bringing the unit to the club. I might even stop using the Garmin if the GPS on the H4 is good enough. Didn't get a chance to compare today because I forgot my Garmin. I didn't know there was a pin marker function. I'm going to have to try that next time. So far I like the data it presents. It seems more detailed than Game Golf. I'll form a more complete opinion of it as I play more rounds.
    • I realize this got no traction initially. But for anyone interested, SwingLogic will be dropping this for pre-orders early in the week. No idea what the timeline is for delivery though. I plan to give it a shot. If it turns out to be comparable to the Mevo or R10, I'd imagine it'll do really well. 
    • Day 582: Worked a bit on another piece of having my upper center move toward the target in transition. I call it the Leaning Tower of Pisa feel. It is more for the irons. For driver, it doesn’t need to be as pronounced. Videos the practice.
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. DocP
      DocP
      (61 years old)
    2. Isaac03
      Isaac03
      (38 years old)
    3. phillyk
      phillyk
      (32 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...