Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

[David in FL]

8 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I'm a huge Tiger fan but you can't compare how Jack and Arnie conducted themselves versus Tiger thus far.  Tiger gets accolades because he was a great golfer, despite being cold to fans and the media.  Arnie and Jack were great golfers, always gracious to their fans and media and continue to play a huge role in golf today.  

A retired Tiger doesn't have the same value as Jack and Arnie long term to sponsors, though with an attitude change he could   

Agree.

4 hours ago, iacas said:

You can't say that Tiger isn't more valuable to sponsors. He's way more well known and played in a different era. For all you know "great golfer" might be better than "good guy." You're guessing.

All you can say is that he did things differently.

Michael Jordan is still a valuable brand.

Michael didn't lose his game when he should have been in the highlight of his career.  Neither did Jack or Arnie.

I know, blasphemy.  Tiger's "injured".  

Honestly though, Tiger will always be a draw and will never want for endorsement opportunities.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Michael didn't lose his game when he should have been in the highlight of his career.  Neither did Jack or Arnie.

I know, blasphemy.  Tiger's "injured".  

Honestly though, Tiger will always be a draw and will never want for endorsement opportunities.

Tiger is the best ever to play the game. But to you he "lost his game."

Plus Jordan was a joke with the Wizards and played baseball for a few years?!?!

Okay David.

[David in FL]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Tiger is the best ever to play the game. But to you he "lost his game."

Plus Jordan was a joke with the Wizards and played baseball for a few years?!?!

Okay David.

 

In retrospect, you're probably right about Michael, though it's arguable that 38 is "old" for a basketball player, when Michael made his last ill-advised attempt to play for the Wizards, but a top golfer could be in the peak of his career at the same age, coincidentally, about the same age that Tiger was 3 years ago.

 

 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, David in FL said:

In retrospect, you're probably right about Michael, though it's arguable that 38 is "old" for a basketball player, when Michael made his last ill-advised attempt to play for the Wizards, but a top golfer could be in the peak of his career at the same age, coincidentally, about the same age that Tiger was 3 years ago.

And Tiger was #1 three years ago.

Fact remains the landscape is different now. That we can agree on yes?

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

And Tiger was #1 three years ago.

Yep.  Hence the "lost it" comment.  I've said it before and I'll repeat it now, even though I don't like him, he's good for the game and I'd like to see him playing again.

 

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Fact remains the landscape is different now. That we can agree on yes?

Absolutely.

[Natural Patrick]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Tiger is the best ever to play the game. But to you he "lost his game."

Plus Jordan was a joke with the Wizards and played baseball for a few years?!?!

Okay David.

Tiger is not the best to ever play the game..Though that is just my opinion. no shit. He will never win a major again on the PGA tour, book it.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Natural Patrick said:

Tiger is not the best to ever play the game.

You will have a hard time presenting a case for anyone else, and the majority already disagree with you.

You of course get to have your opinion. Just like some might really like Coldplay or Bud Light.

But we have another thread for that whole discussion.

[boogielicious]

Tiger transcended the game of golf around the world far more than Jack or Arnie ever did. People who know nothing of golf know who he is. That is hugely important to sponsors regardless of his playing status.

[ScouseJohnny]

Since we've wandered into "greatest to play the game" territory, the greatest Englishman to play the game just picked up a gig as an ambassador for the company with which he won his six majors:

Quote

“We are so happy to have Nick Faldo back in the Mizuno family,” said Akito Mizuno, President of Mizuno Corporation.

http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/blog/sir-nick-faldo-comes-home-to-mizuno/

And Sir Nick last won a major twenty years ago, and hasn't played serious competitive golf in over a decade.

So, clearly there is, indeed, a market for the endorsement of a superstar from the past.

Trouble is, of course, Faldo won it all with Muzino (who are still very much in business) - it makes absolute sense for Faldo to be a Mizuno ambassador. Tiger, however, is indelibly linked with Nike; before Tiger, Nike golf didn't exist in the public's imagination. But Nike just turned their golf business over to apparel only. I can see Tiger always being a brand ambassador for Nike, but for him to endorse anything else, equipment-wise, would ring rather hollow, don't you think?

Edited August 14, 2016 by ScouseJohnny

[ChrisP]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

You will have a hard time presenting a case for anyone else, and the majority already disagree with you.

 

Not sure about "majority". Maybe here on this board, but outside of this board, I don't know. I've actually seen more golf writers and experts say Jack is the greatest ever. They had the debate on TGC just a few months ago and 4 of the 5 guys picked Jack. Then again, Brandel Chamblee is the one who said Tiger is the greatest of all-time, so if Brandel is on board, how can we all not be?

I just wish Tiger did something the second half of his career. It would make the case a lot easier for him.

Edited August 14, 2016 by ChrisP

[turtleback]

3 hours ago, ScouseJohnny said:

Since we've wandered into "greatest to play the game" territory, the greatest Englishman to play the game just picked up a gig as an ambassador for the company with which he won his six majors:

 

Are people born on one of the Jersey islands not considered Engish?

 

16 hours ago, iacas said:

And Tiger was #1 three years ago.

Fact remains the landscape is different now. That we can agree on yes?

The biggest changes in the landscape are the 24/7 connectedness of everything, the sports media willingness to report on athletes private lives, and the pervasiveness of persistance of stories.  Arnie would have had a hard time surviving with all of his infidelities and Jack would never have survived his racist comments.  Tiger made the mistake of not putting up a facade.

[Abu3baid]

20 minutes ago, turtleback said:

Are people born on one of the Jersey islands not considered Engish?

 

The biggest changes in the landscape are the 24/7 connectedness of everything, the sports media willingness to report on athletes private lives, and the pervasiveness of persistance of stories.  Arnie would have had a hard time surviving with all of his infidelities and Jack would never have survived his racist comments.  Tiger made the mistake of not putting up a facade.

I thought that's exactly what he did for a very long time?  Wasn't it only after the car accident that his whole personal life began to fall apart?  His mistake was his inability to keep up the facade and it all came crashing down on him.

[Gunther]

1 hour ago, Abu3baid said:

I thought that's exactly what he did for a very long time?  Wasn't it only after the car accident that his whole personal life began to fall apart?  His mistake was his inability to keep up the facade and it all came crashing down on him.

Exactly, that was a weird comment.  He hid behind maybe the biggest facade we've ever seen for 20 years.

[ScouseJohnny]

6 hours ago, turtleback said:

Are people born on one of the Jersey islands not considered English?

People born on one of the Channel Islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, or Sark are British, but they are not English. Harry Vardon came from the Bailiwick of Jersey; he lived and worked in England from the age of 20 onwards, and died in London, but he wasn't English - he was a Jerseyman.

[turtleback]

15 hours ago, ScouseJohnny said:

People born on one of the Channel Islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, or Sark are British, but they are not English. Harry Vardon came from the Bailiwick of Jersey; he lived and worked in England from the age of 20 onwards, and died in London, but he wasn't English - he was a Jerseyman.

Thanks, I wondered about that.

20 hours ago, Gunther said:

Exactly, that was a weird comment.  He hid behind maybe the biggest facade we've ever seen for 20 years.

Facade towards the press.

TMZ would have had a great time with Arnie.  

[Rainmaker]

On 8/14/2016 at 1:04 PM, Gunther said:

Exactly, that was a weird comment.  He hid behind maybe the biggest facade we've ever seen for 20 years.

I don't know - I can see it both ways.  In my opinion - really he was/is just super private.  He really didn't actively pretend to be anything he wasn't - not that I saw much of, anyway.  But the press was always talking about him - taking the few details he would provide and extrapolating, etc . . .

I always got the feeling he would prefer not to talk to anybody at all - but it wasn't possible due to his status.  So I personally don't consider him as having put up a facade - we (the press, the fans, etc) built the facade ourselves. 

[Gunther]

45 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I don't know - I can see it both ways.  In my opinion - really he was/is just super private.  He really didn't actively pretend to be anything he wasn't - not that I saw much of, anyway.  But the press was always talking about him - taking the few details he would provide and extrapolating, etc . . .

I always got the feeling he would prefer not to talk to anybody at all - but it wasn't possible due to his status.  So I personally don't consider him as having put up a facade - we (the press, the fans, etc) built the facade ourselves. 

He protected himself from the press and in so doing, from the fans.  But the press protected him too, pre-incident.  Once that happened the floodgates opened.  Before that, very few wanted to utter a negative word about him for fear of upsetting him thereby getting cut off from any access to him whatsoever.  I never quite got this since he provided so little access anyway.  I'm certain there were media types aware of his proclivities long before they were inadvertently outed.

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, Gunther said:

He protected himself from the press and in so doing, from the fans.  But the press protected him too, pre-incident.  Once that happened the floodgates opened.  Before that, very few wanted to utter a negative word about him for fear of upsetting him thereby getting cut off from any access to him whatsoever.  I never quite got this since he provided so little access anyway.  I'm certain there were media types aware of his proclivities long before they were inadvertently outed.

It wasn't always that way. In his early years, he was very engaging to the fans. I know several people who can attest to this. One met him in OZ and Woods was delightful, while Norman, who was towards the end of his career, was not.

Also, per Steve Williams, Woods received death threats. That would certainly make anyone more cautious with fan interaction.