How Would You Play It? (16th at Whispering Woods)

[iacas]

I consider myself a below average sand player, and slightly above average short game player.  Even yet, I would bet I hit the green at least double the time from the 30 yard sandy or crappy lie vs. 135 in the fairway.

Most people would… People routinely over-estimate how good they are from various distances.

[Aguirre]

Most people would… People routinely over-estimate how good they are from various distances.

Without question.  This drives me nuts in scrambles, where I'm usually the "captain" but am trying to let everyone contribute.

Also, after seeing the view from the tee shot, I would revert to my first answer about driver, since I couldn't tell there was plenty of room on the right before the trees.  I WANT MY STAR

[Ho Chi Chi Vinh]

I would hit my Driver off the tee as I'm not a long hitter (230-240yds) but I am accurate with it (79.7 Fairway accuracy) so Driver works best for me leaving a sand wedge approach shot...short Par 4's are gems aren't they !!!

[Lihu]

Driver to land the "terrace" just below the last hill climb to the green, then proceeded to duff the ball all over the place with the wedge from less than 50 yards.

If I had done what @CarlSpackler had suggested and hit to the middle of the green the results would have been much better. My issue was trusting that the ball would not roll off to the right on the green. Just need more experience, I guess.

This course is really hard, so there were many interesting holes other than this one as well.

[billchao]

It has just occurred to me that I have never read this thread, which @Lihu even made reference to, on Saturday. Having been armed with zero prior knowledge of strategy in this hole, I chose 3w off the tee and pulled it into the left hazard. After the drop, I had 95 to the pin and put my approach on the back of the green, maybe 30' from the hole? @mvmac or @iacas were both there, so they can tell me what distance it was. Anyway, my putt had a ridiculous amount break, and I lagged it to 2' (AimPoint, baby!). Bogey.

[CarlSpackler]

For @Golfingdad

I went with driver which would be good to land in the "H" spot and maybe roll the the "3" from the blues. For the actual letters as shown on this thread, I would have to play from the white tees, but most likely the senior. You really need to be aggressive with your 2nd, because it is quite a severe slope. Anything short, and you are pitching again. Satellite imagery or even a photograph does not do it justice. You can't be too aggressive since the green runs away from you.

As for how I did... I hit a low pull hook with my driver that barely cleared the junk and was just short of the fairway. Thankful that I at least cleared it, I took my 7 or 6i (can't remember which) and almost fell over as I hit the ball from an awkward stance and a body that was quickly running out of gas. My ball landed in the short left bunker. I caught too much ball and put it on the hill on the back of the green. Hit a nice flop wedge back on the green, but underestimated the break which took it to the fringe. Blah blah blah triple bogey.

If I were to play this hole as designated in this thread, I would definitely play driver from the tee to the "D" spot. The bunkers are not bad places to be (if you play a good bunker shot that is). It's not too hateful from the "H" zone, but you have very low chance of birdie from there, especially if the pin is on the front.

[Divot Master]

Now that a whole 'nother batch of posters has seen this hole, I suspect there will be renewed interest in this thread.

I am curious, did anyone spot the alternate way to play this hole, either on purpose or by accident?  That would be a high fade driver (or 3 wood) about 240 yards up the 15th fairway, and a full wedge or 9 iron to the green.  Depending on tee position, this is not always possible due to several trees separating the holes, but the landing area is reasonably generous and is at a higher elevation than the 16th fairway landing area.  The shot to the green can be aimed to the bowl portion of the green, and will tend to hold much better than a shot from the 16th fairway to the crowned portion of the green.

[Lihu]

Now that a whole 'nother batch of posters has seen this hole, I suspect there will be renewed interest in this thread.

I am curious, did anyone spot the alternate way to play this hole, either on purpose or by accident?  That would be a high fade driver (or 3 wood) about 240 yards up the 15th fairway, and a full wedge or 9 iron to the green.  Depending on tee position, this is not always possible due to several trees separating the holes, but the landing area is reasonably generous and is at a higher elevation than the 16th fairway landing area.  The shot to the green can be aimed to the bowl portion of the green, and will tend to hold much better than a shot from the 16th fairway to the crowned portion of the green.

I forgot exactly, but is the down slope of the green facing you from the 15th? If so, I presume this might give you a better approach? I just remember that the green is at the top of a small hill like structure, and there were lots of trees and deep rough all over this hill. Pretty hard hole, and kind of cool if we weren't trying to hit the apex of the hill with our approaches.

[Divot Master]

I forgot exactly, but is the down slope of the green facing you from the 15th? If so, I presume this might give you a better approach? I just remember that the green is at the top of a small hill like structure, and there were lots of trees and deep rough all over this hill. Pretty hard hole, and kind of cool if we weren't trying to hit the apex of the hill with our approaches.

Yes, the roll off at the back of the green that causes so many approaches from the 16th fairway to go over the back, appears as somewhat more of a receptive bowl when approached from the 15th fairway at about a 60 degree angle to the 16th fairway.

[billchao]

I am curious, did anyone spot the alternate way to play this hole, either on purpose or by accident?  That would be a high fade driver (or 3 wood) about 240 yards up the [U] 15th [/U] fairway, and a full wedge or 9 iron to the green.

IIRC, group A hit two drives onto the 15th fairway. I remember @Rob Thompson hit one of them. Maybe @Jeremie Boop or @GolfLug can give us the details.

[jamo]

Per @Golfingdad 's request: I hit a driver that landed about 5-10 yards short of that first bunker on the left. Got under it a little bit, so a "normal" shot probably would have reached the bunkers. Had 50 or so yards to the pin, hit it to the front edge. 3-putted after a terrible first putt (and I misjudged just how much the slope ran away from me when the ball got towards the hole).

[saevel25]

Per @Golfingdad's request: I hit a driver that landed about 5-10 yards short of that first bunker on the left. Got under it a little bit, so a "normal" shot probably would have reached the bunkers. Had 50 or so yards to the pin, hit it to the front edge. 3-putted after a terrible first putt (and I misjudged just how much the slope ran away from me when the ball got towards the hole).

That green is not nice! Well neither is the 17th's green as well ;)

[jamo]

That green is not nice! Well neither is the 17th's green as well ;)

I hit each green in regulation, and 3-putted both greens, so I am with you!

[saevel25]

I hit each green in regulation, and 3-putted both greens, so I am with you!

Yea, that pin placement on 17 was just evil. I got lucky for my pitch shot to actually run off to the back fringe. I had an easy up the hill putt from there. Someone in our group, I think @CarlSpackler 's ball was about to stop about 2 feet from the hole, and then it just hit that slope and went right off the green.

[billchao]

Yea, that pin placement on 17 was just evil. I got lucky for my pitch shot to actually run off to the back fringe. I had an easy up the hill putt from there. Someone in our group, I think @CarlSpackler's ball was about to stop about 2 feet from the hole, and then it just hit that slope and went right off the green.

Both @jamo and I were on the front of the green and ran the ball right off the back.

[jamo]

Both @jamo and I were on the front of the green and ran the ball right off the back.

Yup. Not a fun green.

[Parker0065]

Pretty basic decision for me and my game. 3H to 90 yards and a 3/4 Gap wedge with my 90 yard swing that I practice every fricken time I'm at the range.

Why would I play the hole this way: Because I practice my 90 yard Gap wedge shot every fricken time I'm at the range, lol!

But also looking at risk/reward as far as hitting Driver, if I can't reach the green or at least the front fringe where I can putt it I don't see it as much of an advantage to have a 30 yard pitch. The same goes for hitting 3W and leaving a 60 yard pitch. Can I hit the 30 or 60 yard pitch, sure but I prefer to hit the 90 yard pitch that I practice all the time and am very comfortable with. But the bottom line for me is because I know I can hit the 90 yard shot well, the risk of hitting 3W or Driver off the tee far outweighs being a little closer to the green.

At my home course there are a handful of shorter par4's that play very much like this hole and playing in members scrambles ! always hit Driver as the A-Player on these holes and whats scary is watching how many people actually miss the green from 30-60 yards. When I'm playing for score I always hit irons or 3Hybrid off the tee on those particular holes. Now if I'm playing in a tournament or matchplay my strategy may very well change depending on where I stand.

[14ledo81]

Pretty basic decision for me and my game. 3H to 90 yards and a 3/4 Gap wedge with my 90 yard swing that I practice every fricken time I'm at the range. Why would I play the hole this way: Because I practice my 90 yard Gap wedge shot every fricken time I'm at the range, lol! But also looking at risk/reward as far as hitting Driver, if I can't reach the green or at least the front fringe where I can putt it I don't see it as much of an advantage to have a 30 yard pitch. The same goes for hitting 3W and leaving a 60 yard pitch. Can I hit the 30 or 60 yard pitch, sure but I prefer to hit the 90 yard pitch that I practice all the time and am very comfortable with. But the bottom line for me is because I know I can hit the 90 yard shot well, the risk of hitting 3W or Driver off the tee far outweighs being a little closer to the green. At my home course there are a handful of shorter par4's that play very much like this hole and playing in members scrambles ! always hit Driver as the A-Player on these holes and whats scary is watching how many people actually miss the green from 30-60 yards. When I'm playing for score I always hit irons or 3Hybrid off the tee on those particular holes. Now if I'm playing in a tournament or matchplay my strategy may very well change depending on where I stand.

You prefer 90 yards vs 30?