2014 Open Championship (British Open) at Royal Liverpool Discussion Thread

[FarawayFairways]

So how bad did the morning players on Thursday do relative to the later group that day? Anyone see any good analysis of how few of that group made the cut or made the top of the leaderboard overall?

I know their conditions were tougher and Adam Scott mentioned it in his press conference, but curious if there's some good analysis out there on how the numbers worked out.

Three shots over the two days, as they also had the benefit of playing in the afternoon on the Friday. The bigger advantage is momentum I guess. The decision to play the split tee times on Saturday consolidated it, as the leaders would have had that wiped out had they got caught in the rain. The general consensus amongst the players is the R&A; got it right, whereas there are some in the media who described it as "panicky" and against the spirit of the tournament

[iacas]

3 majors in 3+ years is streaky? Mmm. Don't think so. He's as consistent as has ever been to this point in his career.

Yes. He's streaky:

He MCs twice and finishes top three the same year.

He wins (after falling apart in the Masters) and finishes 64th in a major two months later.

He goes from MC to T60 to winning by 8.

MC to T8 the next year.

He may very well MC at the PGA this year.

Heck, the 63/78 thing at The Memorial was streaky one day apart.

I stand by my point.

BTW, a guy who isn't too streaky:

And another who is:

[nevets88]

I have no idea who these people are other than mum and dad but they look like a happy lot.

[ChrisP]

McIlroy is a lot more like Phil than Tiger in that his talent shows up one month and goes the next. Like mentioned above, he's very streaky. I remember having this same discussion a couple years ago and showing his stats....he went 11 tournaments in a row one time finishing in the top-5....and then went two months in a row finishing outside the top 10. Where he is a lot like Tiger is he knows how to win majors and he can dominate some of these par-72 courses in the majors. What's significant about par-72s is it rewards the longer hitters who can dominate par-5s. Rory did that at Augusta (for 3 rounds) in 2011, Congressional (Par 71), Kiawah and Royal Liverpool. Look at his winning scores....-16, -13 and -17. And if the weather at St. Andrews's next year is similar to this past week, he will dominate St. Andrew's. He did it for 3 rounds in '10...he just got blown away in the 2nd round. Interesting stat....of Tiger's 14 majors, 10 came on a par-72 layout. Rory will never be Tiger....I don't think we'll ever see what Tiger did in our lifetime. However, when it comes to majors, he plays Tiger's style of game. What he did at Royal Liverpool this past week was almost identical to what Tiger did. Tiger was -5 after round 1, Rory -6...Tiger -12 after round 2, Rory -12....Tiger finished -18 and won by 2, Rory finished -17 and won by 2. He's as dominant as Tiger, but talent-wise, he's when he's on his A-game, his talent is as close as we've seen to Tiger in his prime at his A-gmae.

[saevel25]

McIlroy is a lot more like Phil than Tiger in that his talent shows up one month and goes the next. Like mentioned above, he's very streaky. I remember having this same discussion a couple years ago and showing his stats....he went 11 tournaments in a row one time finishing in the top-5....and then went two months in a row finishing outside the top 10.

Not sure yet, because the knock on Phil was his inability to close the deal on the Majors early in his career. Clearly Rory is able to finish at the Majors. I would say Rory is Rory. Clearly he's not Phil, or he wouldn't have 3 majors by the age of 25

Where he is a lot like Tiger is he knows how to win majors and he can dominate some of these par-72 courses in the majors. What's significant about par-72s is it rewards the longer hitters who can dominate par-5s. Rory did that at Augusta (for 3 rounds) in 2011, Congressional (Par 71), Kiawah and Royal Liverpool. Look at his winning scores....-16, -13 and -17. And if the weather at St. Andrews's next year is similar to this past week, he will dominate St. Andrew's. He did it for 3 rounds in '10...he just got blown away in the 2nd round.

I disagree with that. If you read "Lowest Score Wins" you'd see that longer hitters have an advantage on any course, not just par 72. Also there are many courses that play par 70 and are shorter and longer than some par 72's. In the end, distance is an advantage no matter what, it isn't discriminant against par 70 courses.

Interesting stat....of Tiger's 14 majors, 10 came on a par-72 layout. Rory will never be Tiger....I don't think we'll ever see what Tiger did in our lifetime. However, when it comes to majors, he plays Tiger's style of game. What he did at Royal Liverpool this past week was almost identical to what Tiger did. Tiger was -5 after round 1, Rory -6...Tiger -12 after round 2, Rory -12....Tiger finished -18 and won by 2, Rory finished -17 and won by 2. He's as dominant as Tiger, but talent-wise, he's when he's on his A-game, his talent is as close as we've seen to Tiger in his prime at his A-gmae.

25% of those Majors are played on a course that is always a par 72? Kinda helps he's won 4 times at The Masters. Clearly par 72 is the most common course set up. So if you wanted to make a statistical claim, you have to take into account the number of times par 72 are played over other course set ups. If 70% of all courses are Par 72, you'd think most players would win more times on Par 72 courses.

[Gunther]

Yes. He's streaky: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/102366/] [/URL] He MCs twice and finishes top three the same year. He wins (after falling apart in the Masters) and finishes 64th in a major two months later. He goes from MC to T60 to winning by 8. MC to T8 the next year. He may very well MC at the PGA this year. Heck, the 63/78 thing at The Memorial was streaky one day apart. I stand by my point. BTW, a guy who isn't too streaky: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/102367/] [/URL] And another who is: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/102368/] [/URL]

I guess when you look individually at his tournament finishes he would be considered streaky. My point was looking at the big picture. Taking his entire career to this point with 13 wins and 3 majors over 4 years shows remarkable consistency in my opinion.

[ChrisP]

Not sure yet, because the knock on Phil was his inability to close the deal on the Majors early in his career. Clearly Rory is able to finish at the Majors. I would say Rory is Rory. Clearly he's not Phil, or he wouldn't have 3 majors by the age of 25

Majors-wise he's nothing like Phil. However, "streaky" wise, he is. The knock on Phil was his ability to show up and disappear. Rory does that just as well as anyone.

25% of those Majors are played on a course that is always a par 72? Kinda helps he's won 4 times at The Masters. Clearly par 72 is the most common course set up. So if you wanted to make a statistical claim, you have to take into account the number of times par 72 are played over other course set ups. If 70% of all courses are Par 72, you'd think most players would win more times on Par 72 courses.

Tiger actually said in an interview that one of the reasons he played so well in the majors during his run was his ability to dominate par-5s. It's so important in any tournament, but particularly at Augusta. If you can bomb it and ball strike it the way Tiger and Rory do, you're going to beat up courses like Royal Liverpool and St. Andrew's. What's killing Rory at Augusta is his putting right now, and I think part of it is he's scarred from 2011. Rory's mental game can get shaky. But we'll see at Valhalla, which is another par-72 layout with four par-5s.

[RonTheSavage]

Im just glad Sergio didnt win..............and when did he become so "likeable?"

[iacas]

I disagree with that. If you read "Lowest Score Wins" you'd see that longer hitters have an advantage on any course, not just par 72. Also there are many courses that play par 70 and are shorter and longer than some par 72's. In the end, distance is an advantage no matter what, it isn't discriminant against par 70 courses.

25% of those Majors are played on a course that is always a par 72? Kinda helps he's won 4 times at The Masters. Clearly par 72 is the most common course set up. So if you wanted to make a statistical claim, you have to take into account the number of times par 72 are played over other course set ups. If 70% of all courses are Par 72, you'd think most players would win more times on Par 72 courses.

Though I mostly agree with you, Matt, I will add that an extra par five or two per course provides more "SV" to longer players than not having those holes, so there's a bit of truth to that side of things as well.

[saevel25]

Though I mostly agree with you, Matt, I will add that an extra par five or two per course provides more "SV" to longer players than not having those holes, so there's a bit of truth to that side of things as well.

The more I thought about that myself, the more it made sense.

Lets say its a 550 yard par 5. Lets say Rory hits a 330 yard drive, he'll have 220 yards in. Lets say Furyk hits a 280 yard drive. He'll have 270 yards in. Basically from the fairway, Rory is playing a long par 3 for birdie, and Furyk is playing a short par 4 (without being able to re-tee it up). I can see how that is a bigger advantage because the odds are much more in favor of Rory being able to get in the hole in 3 shots from 220, than it is for Furyk.

[Valleygolfer]

Im just glad Sergio didnt win..............and when did he become so "likeable?"

I would say he won points from me at the accenture match play tournament.

[David in FL]

Im just glad Sergio didnt win..............and when did he become so "likeable?"

Yeah, it's driving me nuts too!

[Golfingdad]

Im just glad Sergio didnt win..............and when did he become so "likeable?"

Yeah, it's driving me nuts too!

Couldn't really tell you for sure ... we like stories of redemption, I guess?

I never really disliked the guy, though.  I have a soft spot for the passionate, "heart on sleeve" types.

[pumaAttack]

way to go RORY!!!

What a class act and cant wait for him to get that career grand slam!!!

[Yukari]

Couldn't really tell you for sure ... we like stories of redemption, I guess?

I never really disliked the guy, though.  I have a soft spot for the passionate, "heart on sleeve" types.

I would have to agree with @Golfingdad in that I didn't particularly disliked the guy.  Although his perceived whining earlier in his career may have contributed to him being disliked by many.

But I do like his passion for saying what is on his mind.  In that he is more like Rory than Tiger.  Rory has what I would call "speech governor" and does not say negative things in press conferences, in contrast Sergio tends to have no "speech governor" and says whatever is on his mind, both negative and positive.

As for Tiger, his press conference is worthless.

[pumaAttack]

Tiger is gonna quickly lose his allure for 18 if he keeps doing this in majors...

Getting near the top on Thursday and then falling apart.

[Ernest Jones]

Im just glad Sergio didnt win..............and when did he become so "likeable?"

I'm not much of a Sergio fan, he just seems so dour and pissy most of the time but he is getting better in the regard, or so it seems...

In any case, I'll take Sergio over Blubberin' Bubba Watson, that's a guy that I really dislike. Big fake IMO.

[Motley01]

Tiger is gonna quickly lose his allure for 18 if he keeps doing this in majors...

Getting near the top on Thursday and then falling apart.

Geeezus, it was his second tournament after surgery. Give the guy a break. It was impressive enough to shoot under par on Thursday.