Tom Doak is designing a reversible golf course, which isn't as crazy as it sounds

[saevel25]

Ok that is pretty cool. I would be very interested in doing a two-day golf play of a course. Day one is the option A. Day two is the reverse.

[WUTiger]

I haven't played a reversible course, but I have played nine-hole layouts with two distinct sets of tees.

During the 1980s and later the 1990s down in Oklahoma, I played a number of small-town golf clubs with this scheme. Sometimes, a given hole would be 100 yards longer than on the parallel nine, or visa versa . Also, a Par 4 could be Par 5 on the second nine. An example:

Hennessey Country Club (circa 1995).

Hole	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	Out
Par	4	4	3	4	5	4	5	4	3	36
Yards	335	322	214	234	480	362	465	420	201	3033
Hole	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	In
Par	4	4	4	3	5	3	5	4	4	36
Yards	352	305	325	184	502	180	493	430	368	3139

Holes 3/12, 6/15, and 9/18 show the biggest differences from one nine to another.

[Wally Fairway]

I was up to Forest Dunes several weeks ago, and you can now see the new course(s) as you drive in. Well you can see the 18th green and the 2 fairways that approach it.

The clubhouse has a couple of sketches/drawings of the layouts, but my phone was in the car and I forgot to go back and get pictures.

It looks very interesting, I'm sure I will get up there - but I'll probably wait until 2017 and let it mature a little bit.

Here is the link, there is a brief slide show showing the construction.

http://www.forestdunesgolf.com/

[Patch]

I have no problem with  reversible course design. I will always believe for the amateur who who wants to play good golf faster, that learning the game backwards is the best way to go. It's the same thought process.

[billchao]

I have no problem with  reversible course design. I will always believe for the amateur who who wants to play good golf faster, that learning the game backwards is the best way to go. It's the same thought process.

I'm not sure what this has to do with reversible course design? If a course plays in reverse one day, you're still hitting the ball from tee to green.

[Wally Fairway]

I'm not sure what this has to do with reversible course design? If a course plays in reverse one day, you're still hitting the ball from tee to green.

Forget it, he's rolling

[natureboy]

On 8/7/2014 at 5:32 AM, jlh1508 said:

You guys are not understanding the concept, it is not just a different order of the same 18 holes

It is hard to explain this:  Imagine if you will a hole with 18 greens and 36 tee boxes... One day you play from the 18 tee boxes going one direction the next day you play in the opposite direction from the 18 other tee boxes

So the greens are the same but the approaches, the challenges will all be different because it will be from the complete opposite direction

So it's 18 greens with 36 fairways. How is that more sustainable than doubling up on the fairways as well?

[MrFlipper]

29 minutes ago, natureboy said:

So it's 18 greens with 36 fairways. How is that more sustainable than doubling up on the fairways as well?

Nope, not quite like that. No extra tees, greens, or fairways.

Like at St. Andrews, you play it regular way, 1st tee to first green, 2nd tee to 2nd green, etc. counterclockwise, or play it reversed, 1st tee to 17th green, 18th tee to 16th green, 17th tee to 15th green, etc. clockwise. Some consider it a better course reversed, certainly some of the bunkers make more sense. Used to play it both ways there many years ago.

I believe they still play it reversed there one day a year.

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, MrFlipper said:

Nope, not quite like that. No extra tees, greens, or fairways.

Like at St. Andrews, you play it regular way, 1st tee to first green, 2nd tee to 2nd green, etc. counterclockwise, or play it reversed, 1st tee to 17th green, 18th tee to 16th green, 17th tee to 15th green, etc. clockwise. Some consider it a better course reversed, certainly some of the bunkers make more sense. Used to play it both ways there many years ago.

I believe they still play it reversed there one day a year.

I see so in the 18th to 16th example you gave you would be playing up the 17th fairway in reverse. starting from the 18th teeing ground going opposite to the 'regular' direction and playing to the 16th green.

So they probably want to keep teeing grounds off the side a bit to avoid them being in the way on the reverse approaches. Lots of variety with the same mowing.

[Grumpter]

I wonder how they are going to work the greens? A large number of greens that slope away from the approach shot is not my idea of fun nor is mostly flat greens.

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, Grumpter said:

I wonder how they are going to work the greens? A large number of greens that slope away from the approach shot is not my idea of fun nor is mostly flat greens.

They can probably anticipate this effect with the reverse layout using double-plateau greens with differing slopes.

Edited December 11, 2015 by natureboy

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, Grumpter said:

I wonder how they are going to work the greens? A large number of greens that slope away from the approach shot is not my idea of fun nor is mostly flat greens.

If its anything like the Old Course, which can still be played in both directions, many of the greens will be relatively level, at least "globally", with smaller undulations to add character and challenge.

[Rainmaker]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2015 at 7:14 PM, WUTiger said:

I haven't played a reversible course, but I have played nine-hole layouts with two distinct sets of tees.

 

During the 1980s and later the 1990s down in Oklahoma, I played a number of small-town golf clubs with this scheme. Sometimes, a given hole would be 100 yards longer than on the parallel nine, or visa versa . Also, a Par 4 could be Par 5 on the second nine. An example:

 

Hennessey Country Club (circa 1995).

 

Hole	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	Out
Par	4	4	3	4	5	4	5	4	3	36
Yards	335	322	214	234	480	362	465	420	201	3033
Hole	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	In
Par	4	4	4	3	5	3	5	4	4	36
Yards	352	305	325	184	502	180	493	430	368	3139

 

Holes 3/12, 6/15, and 9/18 show the biggest differences from one nine to another.

 

The course I play most often is a 9 hole layout with 2 sets of tees.  You got yer "front 9 tees" . .and then, mere steps away, you got yer "back nine tees".  The tees are so poorly marked and so close together that nobody really knows which is which.  You just pick one.    

[natureboy]

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/architecture-week-reversible-routing-forest-dunes/

 

[natureboy]

On 12/11/2015 at 10:06 AM, natureboy said:

On 12/11/2015 at 9:01 AM, Grumpter said:

I wonder how they are going to work the greens? A large number of greens that slope away from the approach shot is not my idea of fun nor is mostly flat greens.

They can probably anticipate this effect with the reverse layout using double-plateau greens with differing slopes.

Or with a large double punchbowl type arrangement.

[Wally Fairway]

After watching the GC clip, and there is some local press coverage about the new course I then went to their website & the course layout is up, shown in one direction. You can kind of figure out some of the other direction tee boxes, but I can't completely put this all together.
https://www.forestdunesgolf.com/

Still this looks pretty nice and I'm hoping to get to preview it this summer in one of my trip "up north".

It looks like playing 12 & 13 would be a little dicey, in this direction; as the drawing seems to show 13 tee box hitting over the 12 green (yikes!).

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

It looks like playing 12 & 13 would be a little dicey, in this direction; as the drawing seems to show 13 tee box hitting over the 12 green (yikes!).

I don't think that should be much of a problem, as long as play is flowing reasonably well.  When you're hitting on 13, the group behind you should be hitting their shots into the 12th green, so that won't be in your way.  It certainly wouldn't be any worse than fairways crossing (7 and 11 at the Old Course), or a blind second shot crossing another fairway (4th at Lahinch crossing 18).  It just adds to the quirkiness.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 8/7/2014 at 5:41 AM, jlh1508 said:

Maybe this will help explain it. It is not a new concept, the old course at St. Andrews use to be able to be played in reverse

 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/jeremy-glenn-the-reverse-old-course/

When I first read the title of this thread the first course I thought of was the Old Course at St. Andrews, where many holes share a single, or should I say "double", green. The size of some of those putting surfaces is unbelievable. You can easily "enjoy" putts of well over 100 feet!

I think it's a clever concept as long as the routing is clear cut. I've played several oddly laid out courses in my life where, due to lack of sufficient signage, we'd leave the 7th green heading for the 8th tee, get lost on the way, and wind up at the the 13th tee! If I was walking I'd have been really pissed! As it was, I was just confused!

Don't know if this has been mentioned as I didn't read every post, but another thing to be considered is wind. Say you play the course 2 days in a row in similar weather conditions. First day forward, second day backward. The wind effect would all be reversed. Thinking of St. Andrews, I believe the Scots would have liked that. "Nae wind, nae golf!"