Proximity to the Hole (Prior to the Shot)

[David in FL]

I tried hitting my 8i from 100 yards out to the flag at the range this weekend just to see how difficult it was.  I was surprised that after a few practice shots I was hitting it pretty close to the flag.

I played a 9-iron from 80 yards yesterday, to about 15 feet......because I needed to flight the ball down and for me, it's easier to do it with the natural loft of a different iron, than to try to manipulate the loft of the "right" club.

You're right, people will be surprised at how accurate and intuitive shots like that can be.

[saevel25]

I played a 9-iron from 80 yards yesterday, to about 15 feet......because I needed to flight the ball down and for me, it's easier to do it with the natural loft of a different iron, than to try to manipulate the loft of the "right" club.

You're right, people will be surprised at how accurate and intuitive shots like that can be.

Yep. If you practice hitting those half distance to 3/4 distance shots, you can get really good at feeling out what club you need to get. It really isn't that hard to stand next to the ball and just tell what shot will work. It really helps pull off shots to, because you have that gut feeling that it will work out, instead of apprehension.

[MrFlipper]

This thread is really interesting to me, not just because I agree with the premise, but also the hitting of half shots, etc. has always been a basic area of enjoyment of the game to me, probably from when I was a kid and just trying to hit the correct shot with the correct trajectory.

The folks I play with now all learned the game as adults, well over thirty when they started.  They all prefer hitting full shots and don't feel comfortable with really anything less than that. Perhaps its because they never practice them, but at least at a recreational level there can be a lot of satisfaction hitting less than full shots. Good for the tempo too

[MS256]

The folks I play with now all learned the game as adults, well over thirty when they started.  They all prefer hitting full shots and don't feel comfortable with really anything less than that.

Hmmm. I must be an outlier then because I started playing at 48 years old and almost all of my shots for the first few years were less than full shots except for full shots at the end of my range with a 3W or with a driver.

It raised some playing partner's eyebrows when they would ask me what I hit and nothing was ever remotely consistent. Most of the time I never even bothered to find a distance and only picked a club based on what I was seeing and on what mood I was in.

I've conformed some since then but I still don't think anybody would want to gage which club to hit based on which one I hit unless they want to be 40 yards short or 40 yards long.

I know an older guy named Jim that's even worse than I am about it and (unlike me) he's actually been a pretty good golfer for a long time and has won quite a few club championship tournaments.

One day his cart partner asked him how far he was on a certain shot. Jim said "Ah, about 100 yards." I happened to be close enough to hear it and I looked down and the 150 yard marker was within a couple of yards. I said "Heck Jim, there's the 150 right there."

Jim said "I don't ever pay any attention to that crap anyway." LOL

[phan52]

The 160-yard genius had a total of over 80' in two shots. 32'+ and 48'+. Anthony, despite hitting two pretty lame shots, still finished first after two shots. Others got over 100' in two shots.

And even if one of those geniuses had managed to hit a great shot and beat Anthony's total (57' or something), it would have been lucky.

We weren't "lucky" to hit six shots on the green from 100 and 120 yards with five-irons. We would have been very lucky to do so from 195 yards.

I learned that years ago from a very good player at our club. We were on a par 3 and I lamented that the tee was moved way up and that I preferred to hit it from the regular spot because I was familiar with it. He told me I was crazy, that it was far easier from where we were. He illustrated it by hitting a 7 iron (when, for him, a wedge was required) about ten feet from the hole. Closer is better.

[Golfingdad]

I learned that years ago from a very good player at our club. We were on a par 3 and I lamented that the tee was moved way up and that I preferred to hit it from the regular spot because I was familiar with it. He told me I was crazy, that it was far easier from where we were. He illustrated it by hitting a 7 iron (when, for him, a wedge was required) about ten feet from the hole. Closer is better.

You remind me of a couple similar stories, the first one is hearsay.

Two years ago in my brother's clubs Mens Invitational they had a contest on the 8th hole (Par 3, 190-ish yards) where they would gamble a few bucks against Derek Ernst - closer shot wins.  190 yards for a tour pro was something like a 7 iron, but my brothers group talked Ernst into hitting the same club they were all hitting, which was either a 4 iron or hybrid.  Without a thought, he said sure and hit a good one up onto the green (don't remember the exact distance) and my brother managed to hit one of his best shots ever from that distance to 10 feet to beat him.

One of my best shots ever (glory-wise at least) was in the same tournament last year.  A separate evening competition they have after the actual round where all of the teams of three compete in an alternate shot "eliminator" type challenge at the same time on the same hole.  Our third teammate put me in the trees from about 90 yards on the short par 4 second hole.  I hit a 5 iron under the tree branches, chased it up onto the kidney-shaped tiered green right near the crest of the top tier and then fed it down behind the bunker to about 8 feet from the hole that I couldn't even see from where I was hitting ... all in front of a gallery of about 80 people. Could not tell you the last time I've hit a full swing 5 iron to 8 feet.

[Golfingdad]

I played the game at the range earlier this week.  Hit 4 balls my full 8 iron distance (about 160 or so), then 4 balls at the 100 yard pole using my 8 iron, and then 4 balls at the 100 yard pole with my sand wedge.

The total distance away from the target of the first 4* was about 120 feet.  (*I didn't have a great target before I hit the first one so I actually gave myself a "bullseye" for that one.  So that's really just the total of the next 3)

The total distance away from the target of the 100 yard 8-irons was on the realm of 60 feet.  And a bump and run 8 iron from 100 yards is something I never practice.

Lastly, I hit 4 shots with my sand wedge and the total was only marginally better than the 8 irons ... maybe 50 feet.

It's a small experiment, yes, but the only conclusion I can come to is that proximity to the hole is definitely the most important factor here.

[natureboy]

There's an awesome book called "Lowest Score Wins" out there which says, correctly, that the strongest correlation to the distance your ball finishes from the hole is how far away it was before you hit it.

In other words, you're more likely to finish closer to the hole from 110 than you are from 130. From 30 rather than 70. From four feet (likely in the hole) than from five feet (less likely to hole the putt). Etc.

On last night's Big Break, players were told they had to hit their 8-irons from any distance outside of 90 yards. Some genius went to 160 yards because he was hitting it 170 on the range. Another went to 130. Etc.

While there's some truth to being able to hit a stock shot, the difference between 90 and 160 yards is nearly double: predictably, he hit his shot to 32'3" or something. I bet, if you could create 199 more alternative universes where he gets to hit one shot from 160 yards and one from 90, the 100 he hits from 90 yards would beat the paired shot he hits from 160 about 75% of the time.

When we played the single club challenge at Whispering Woods, Dave, Mike, and I were on a team. We are all pretty good. We had to hit 5-irons on two par threes from 100 yards and from about 120 yards.

We hit the green six times. Had we played those shots from 195 yards or so, we would not have done that. It's easier to hit the green - and get closer to the hole - from 120 or 100 yards than from 195.

Sorry. Mini rant. Not sure what you can take from it, but it struck me as incredibly dumb to see some of these people hitting shots from well over 90 yards.

P.S. The announcers made fun of Anthony choosing 100 yards. They called him "idiotic." He hit it the right distance but pushed it way, way right. The other players continued to make fun of him. One said "you have to be SO accurate with that shot…" Uh, no, you have to be more accurate from 160 than you do from 100. From 160 a 5% error is 24 feet. From 100, that's an 8% error, while a 5% error is 15 feet.

I thought the same thing when I saw the episode. I don't particularly like Anthony's style, but thought his strategy was good. Technique was lacking. I was surprised the hosts pshawed that approach. Was there a tricky lie closer up?

A Hogan style pitch with an 8-iron goes about 110 for me so that's where I would have set up. I guess the theme of the challenge was having a 'go-to' or favorite distance that you can hit automatically under pressure. But I agree that as close to 100 yards with a shot you regularly practice would have been the right strategy. It's all about CEP, right?

[Ernest Jones]

I've gotten far more aggressive off the tee since reading LSW and have been trending down for sure.

As much distance as possible off the tee = low stress approach shots = more GIR and nGIR = shorter first putts = equals more pars and legitimate birdies chances.

I still bleed a little bit from knocking tee shots OB or into water but that just means I have to work harder on my driving. There's no denying that super long but in the rough trumps short but safe every time. My % from 60y in medium rough is almost assuredly better than my % from 150 in the fairway. My % from 60y in HEAVY rough is probably nearly the same as from 150 in the fairway and even if it's slightly worse that just means I need to tighten up the driver dispersion not revert back to hybrids.

[iacas]

A Hogan style pitch with an 8-iron goes about 110 for me so that's where I would have set up. I guess the theme of the challenge was having a 'go-to' or favorite distance that you can hit automatically under pressure. But I agree that as close to 100 yards with a shot you regularly practice would have been the right strategy. It's all about CEP, right?

It doesn't even have to be a shot you regularly practice. If you're somewhat skilled at golf (everyone on the show meets that standard), you'll hit your 8-iron closer from 90 on average than you will from 150.

[Golfingdad]

It doesn't even have to be a shot you regularly practice. If you're somewhat skilled at golf (everyone on the show meets that standard), you'll hit your 8-iron closer from 90 on average than you will from 150.

Yeah.  I didn't want to believe this, but it's true.  I did the experiment a few posts up and even though it was a small sample, it just wasn't even close.  And I N.E.V.E.R. practice a 100 yard 8 iron pitch.  Never.

I played the game at the range earlier this week.  Hit 4 balls my full 8 iron distance (about 160 or so), then 4 balls at the 100 yard pole using my 8 iron, and then 4 balls at the 100 yard pole with my sand wedge.

The total distance away from the target of the first 4* was about 120 feet.  (*I didn't have a great target before I hit the first one so I actually gave myself a "bullseye" for that one.  So that's really just the total of the next 3)

The total distance away from the target of the 100 yard 8-irons was on the realm of 60 feet.  And a bump and run 8 iron from 100 yards is something I never practice.

Lastly, I hit 4 shots with my sand wedge and the total was only marginally better than the 8 irons ... maybe 50 feet.

It's a small experiment, yes, but the only conclusion I can come to is that proximity to the hole is definitely the most important factor here.

[billchao]

Yeah.  I didn't want to believe this, but it's true.  I did the experiment a few posts up and even though it was a small sample, it just wasn't even close.  And I N.E.V.E.R. practice a 100 yard 8 iron pitch.  Never.

I stumbled upon an indoor simulator place the other day and the pro there went into a big pitch. Long story short, he set up a 100 yard target to have me hit to and hands me a whippy graphite 9 iron (I guess he assumed I didn't golf?). I'm standing there wondering how in the world I'm going to be able to hit the club, but then I figure I'll just make the most of it. Pushed the first one 15 yards right. Hit the next 10 stiff. I'm not that good with a wedge from 100 yards and here I'm hitting this thing all over the target. Maybe I ought to put my wife's clubs in my bag ;-)

[MS256]

Yeah.  I didn't want to believe this, but it's true.  I did the experiment a few posts up and even though it was a small sample, it just wasn't even close.  And I N.E.V.E.R. practice a 100 yard 8 iron pitch.  Never.

My funny and disgusting "test":

After reading your comment I went out to my chipping green in the yard with a SW, a PW, and an 8 iron. My plan was to hit 4 balls with each from 100 yards and see how many total feet from the pin for 4 shots each club was.

Problem was that I'm evidently not good enough to do the test. I completely chunked my fourth shot with the SW and it only went 53 yards completely ruining my test.

I practiced a little while and decided to give the test another shot. Very first ball of the second test I once again chunked the SW about halfway to the pin. End of test for me.

No wonder that I'm more likely to use a PW from 80 to 100 yards on the course but more likely to use a SW from 110 yards on the course. I chunk a less than full SW more often than I chunk a less than full PW.

[rebelrob]

I would have always assumed that the closer you are to the target, the closer you will be able to get.

I fully understand the thoughts behind the thinking of being able to hit an 8 iron pretty much the same distance every time on a full swing, so picking that distance to hit from. But surely the further away you would also have the added variables of wind etc...

Even if I knew I could throw a ball 60 yards almost dead on at full effort, and someone said throw a ball as close as you can to this flag from at least 30 yards, I wouldn't even think about going further away.

[Golfingdad]

After reading your comment I went out to my chipping green in the yard with a SW, a PW, and an 8 iron. My plan was to hit 4 balls with each from 100 yards and see how many total feet from the pin for 4 shots each club was.

That's not the same test though.

It's not "which club are you more comfortable with from 100 yards."  It's "at what distance should you be to hit your 8 iron the closest to the hole, on average?"  The answer for most is likely going to be "as close as I can be."

[MS256]

That's not the same test though.

It's not "which club are you more comfortable with from 100 yards."  It's "at what distance should you be to hit your 8 iron the closest to the hole, on average?"  The answer for most is likely going to be "as close as I can be."

OMG!!!!! Did I say it was the same test? I already know the answer to that test and have known it since the first day I ever picked up a club.

[mvmac]

That's not the same test though.

It's not "which club are you more comfortable with from 100 yards."  It's "at what distance should you be to hit your 8 iron the closest to the hole, on average?"  The answer for most is likely going to be "as close as I can be."

Correct. Like the one club challenge mentioned in the OP. We're going to hit the green more often with our 5 irons from 120 yards than from our full 5 iron distance.

[natureboy]

It doesn't even have to be a shot you regularly practice. If you're somewhat skilled at golf (everyone on the show meets that standard), you'll hit your 8-iron closer from 90 on average than you will from 150.

I get your point and agree. On Anthony's shot it looked like he had no idea what type of shot to hit from that close. I am guessing it was supposed to be a lowish punch?

What would you do, just take a stock swing with less energy in the pivot, or the 'quickie pitch'?

I mentioned the Hogan pitch, because I think it's ideal for this distance. Good spin, more height than stock swing, easy to aim. Plus the bounce is in play if you don't catch it perfectly. In my opinion a better option than a punch anyway.

Yeah.  I didn't want to believe this, but it's true.  I did the experiment a few posts up and even though it was a small sample, it just wasn't even close.  And I N.E.V.E.R. practice a 100 yard 8 iron pitch.  Never.

What type of shot did you hit, pitch with the 8, or a low-powered standard swing, or something else?