Arccos Game Tracking Device, Looking for Input

[JGus]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Huh? I signed up and made a reminder to cancel.

My sensors arrive Wednesday.

I'm just busy, and probably lazy, and not really motivated to use them...

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, JGus said:

I'm just busy, and probably lazy, and not really motivated to use them...

That's fine, but it's not really all that difficult to get them, free, if you've already purchase a qualifying PING club.

[Missouri Swede]

On 10/17/2019 at 1:24 PM, iacas said:

No interest in Arccos until I can get the belt clip thing.

(Moved it over to this thread.)  Found out that Arccos can use the Apple Watch (series 2 and later) for shot detection, so I don't have to keep my iPhone in my pocket. I'm wearing my Apple Watch anyway, so I'll probably use Arccos this way.  When the belt unit becomes available, I'll reconsider.

Playing today, I kept trying to tap my club grip to my belt, surprised that it didn't buzz.  Going to take a little while to drop that habit. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Missouri Swede said:

(Moved it over to this thread.)  Found out that Arccos can use the Apple Watch (series 2 and later) for shot detection, so I don't have to keep my iPhone in my pocket. I'm wearing my Apple Watch anyway, so I'll probably use Arccos this way.  When the belt unit becomes available, I'll reconsider.

Oh, that's interesting. Might look into that more at the beginning of next year.

[Missouri Swede]

I emailed to ask about expiration of the 90-day trial (one page of the arccos site said 30 days instead of 90 days).  They wrote back that they're running a promotion to extend the trial longer, so they extended mine to April 1, 2020. So if anyone else here is taking advantage of this, it might be worth contacting them.

[dennyjones]

When Ping released its G710 irons on Jan. 21, they came with Arccos Caddie Smart Grips and a free trial of the Arccos Caddie app.

 

There are now two manufactures that are using Arccos, Ping and Cobra.   It's a shame that Game Golf dropped the ball.

[iacas]

Meh. Ball isn’t completely dropped. But it’s awfully low to the ground.

[lastings]

15 hours ago, dennyjones said:

When Ping released its G710 irons on Jan. 21, they came with Arccos Caddie Smart Grips and a free trial of the Arccos Caddie app.

 

There are now two manufactures that are using Arccos, Ping and Cobra.   It's a shame that Game Golf dropped the ball.

I don't think Game Golf dropped the ball as much is it is that they are just not nearly as well funded as Arccos is.    Arccos has received at a minimum of $9.9 million in venture capital money, whereas Game golf is under $2M.   now, these are both privately held companies, and nothing is know about privately held investments in them, but, I haven't seen anything as far as far as advertisements/marketing or technological advancements that would suggest they have anywhere near the cash that Arccos does.   

It's just very tough to compete as a tech company with significantly less capital.  

 

 

[Missouri Swede]

I’ve been using the Arccos Caddie smart sensors (“3rd generation”) since mid October, as a program with Ping for those of us who have bought Ping clubs in the last year or two.  They initially sent the sensors with a 90 day free trial period (from the date of ordering the sensors—delivery maybe a week later); with this, the trial period would have ended on January 11. When I emailed about this, Arccos replied that they are extending this to April 1, 2020.

Since I’ve used the Game Golf system (both classic and Live, "GG" from here on) for a few years, I was interested to see how they compare and contrast. I’ve played 36 rounds on the Arccos system (either 18 holes or 9 holes), and I’ve got a few observations.  I’m using my iPhone 6s and Apple Watch series 2, using iOS and WatchOS versions that were up to date all the time along the way for both.

CLUB SETUP:  In contrast to the GG system with pre-labeled tags indicating which club it goes in (with a couple of wild cards tags as extras or replacement), Arccos has 13 unlabeled tags and one for the putter.  You sync each sensor with the iPhone app as you put it on the club, and you tell Arccos which tag is on each club as you go.  Some observations:

1. When I had two clubs regripped, I almost forgot to take off the sensors—that would be an expensive mistake.  (Same thing can happen with GG sensors, but they give you are a couple extras.)
2. As I took the sensors off those two clubs, I realized that I had to grab a post-it note or something to keep track of which sensor goes on which club, since they’re not labeled.  If not, I’d have to re-sync the sensors or go into the diagnostics of the app, or just hit a shot with one of the two clubs to see if I guessed correctly putting them back on.  (Not a big deal with two clubs, but would be a nuisance if I did a whole iron set.)
3. The sensors do blend in nicely with contours of the grips and consequently look nicer and a little less noticeable than the GG red tags, even though the Arccos tags are taller.  I don’t notice any difference in swing weight, although I'm sure there is a difference--I just don't feel it.  (But I’m a high handicapper. YMMV.)

COURSE INFO:  Arccos had the wrong course yardage information for my home course (every hole of every tee was wrong).  I emailed them about it and sent a pdf of the course scorecard.  They acknowledged that they got it, but nothing happened after that.  I reminded them about 6 weeks later; they updated it then.  On a different course, they had the hole mapping incorrect: standing on the tee, my location was off the screen. I took a couple screenshots to show the problem, and they fixed this in a day or two.

ON COURSE USE:

There are a couple ways to use the system.  The simplest is to use the iPhone for shot detection (and Watch in “rangefinding mode”), keeping the iPhone in your left front pocket.  Doing it this way, the iPhone and Apple Watch will show distances to the middle, front and back of the green.  When you leave the green, both the iPhone and Watch will show your total number of shots for the hole, as well as the number of putts.  If you need to add or subtract a putt, you can do it from the Watch or the iPhone.  Any other changes (penalty strokes, duffed chips that the system ignored) have to be added on the iPhone (either right there or later on).  A few observations:

1.  I tried my iPhone in my right front pocket and in my back pockets.  It wasn’t as reliable in detecting the shots.  I initially wasn’t a fan of having my iPhone in my pocket, but I’ve gotten used to it and don’t mind it now.

2. The putt location detection is pretty good, even at guestimating pin location.  The system only cares about first putt location and final pin location.  Editing locations on their respective iPhone apps is more easily done in Arccos than in GG.  In fact, editing the green info is easier in Arccos on the iPhone than on the computer; I’ve never edited any putting location info for Arccos on the computer—contrast this with GG, where I’ve edited (or at least reviewed) every green of every hole on the computer.  (Part of this is due to each individual putt being recorded in GG—Arccos only cares about the first putt location.)  If I’ve got a free minute at the next tee, I adjust the pin location and first putt location as needed, as well as adjusting the “Texas wedge” shots (#3):

3.  When using the putter from off the green, the system counts it as a putt (same as GG).  To correct it to a chip with the putter is easily done in the iPhone app with one tap.  (I do this as I adjust putts in #2 above.)  Last time I used the GG iPhone app, you could make this same change on their iPhone app, but when uploading the data at the conclusion of the round, it changes it back to an on-green putt, including changing the position of the stroke, which you have to correct on a computer, not the iPhone app; this problem doesn’t occur with Arccos.

4. Arccos uses your GPS position to determine whether you’re on the fairway or in the rough.  When you’re close to this line, it sometimes gets it wrong (just like GG).  Changing the shot position from fairway to rough (or reverse) is a quick click on that shot in the iPhone.  The shot position doesn’t change, but YOU get to say whether it’s fairway, rough, or sand (if near a bunker).  This contrasts with GG, where to make a similar change, you have to drag the actual tagged shot position until it’s in or out of the fairway.

5. Tee shots are recorded where you took them.  GG places tee shots onto the closest tee area.  Most of the time this is the same place, but not always.  About 3 months a year, we use temporary winter tee locations to prevent damage to the regular tees.  In GG, I have to adjust these on the computer after the round is over.  No such adjustment is needed in Arccos.

6. If Arccos somehow messes up which hole a tagged shot is supposed to be for, there’s a way to edit that individual shot and tell the iPhone app which hole you were really playing.  I haven’t had this problem with Arccos (but I believe it can happen).   I have had a few rounds in GG where this happened, and their tech support couldn’t always straighten it out.  Not a problem to fix if it happens in Arccos.

Apple Watch for shot detection:  This part might be the biggest disappointment with the Arccos Caddie system.  The Apple Watch is supposed to able to be used for shot detection (“shot detection mode”), so you don’t need to keep the iPhone in your front pocket.  This setting also gives is a lot more functionality to what you can edit on the Watch.  I used this setup for a couple of rounds in October and liked it.  Unfortunately, WatchOS updating to version 6 (late October) changed something in the way the iPhone and Watch sync with each other (according to Arccos tech support).  Using the Watch for shot detection hasn’t worked since then. Bummer.  It was really nice, and I hope they get this sorted out. But over 3 months later, still not working again.

There is another setup where the Watch is used for both shot detection and shot location (“shot tracking mode”).  It would be fun to try if they get these WatchOS problems sorted out.

They are working on a belt unit (“caddie link”) that sounds similar to the GG belt unit, not available yet.  Even if it were available now, I don’t want to spend more for a separate unit.  I’ve gotten used to not having a separate belt unit, (using the iPhone and watch instead).  Probably not a big deal overall if it already came with the system (like GG does), but I probably won’t get it.

INFORMATION PROCESSING:

The data from the system looks good overall, and a lot is similar to data in GG.  A couple of things I noticed:

1. It can show you how you have played the same hole in the past (multiple shot tracings from previous rounds).  I think I recall someone in one of the GG threads wanting to see this sort of thing.  It’s here, in Arccos.

2. It will show you average distances (and range of distances) for your clubs, of course.  But it also can tell you how many times you have used each club.

Okay, a few of the not-so-great things:

1.  Some of the “Personal Bests” stats are wrong.  I can find a few items (e.g., lowest score, longest drive) listed in my personal best roster where I’ve got a better stat on a different round; and looking at that other round lists it correctly in that round as a new “Personal Best.”  But somehow some of them don’t trigger a listing in the summary of all personal bests.

2. I have had two rounds lost. Messing with the Apple Watch detection problem, I (deliberately) uninstalled the iPhone app, then reinstalled.  This shouldn’t be a problem, as the rounds should be synced automatically to my online info.  But two consecutive rounds (one just played that day and one the day before) were gone.  Tech support couldn’t see them either, and no real reason found.  GG has lost a couple of rounds for me, too, but that was a couple over a few years instead of a couple of months.

3.  Arccos Caddie Rangefinder.  Much of their marketing and recent development has been their “Caddie Rangefinder” that takes wind, slope of the hole, temperature, humidity, altitude and your average club distances to recommend what club to use.  Unless I am missing something here, this does not comply with the RoG.  You can switch this option off (“tournament mode”), but it seems like they expect that you will use the Caddie Rangefinder routinely for most rounds.  No warning that such rounds shouldn’t be reported for handicap, etc.  It’s like they want people to cheat by using equipment not in compliance with RoG.

4.  Price.  They’re going to a subscription model.  The sensors will work for me until April 1.  Price from that point on will be $99 a year.  Not sure if it’s worth it to me at that price, particularly since I’ve got GG already paid with no ongoing subscription charges.  The solution here is to buy a set of the 2019 Arccos Caddie sensors (“2nd generation”), currently on sale for $199.99, until they sell out; these have no subscription required, and provide the same function as the newer 2020 3rd generation sensors.  Easy choice here: If I go with Arccos, buy the 2019 version; if I use them through April 2023, I break even, and after that it’s a savings to have bought the 2019 version.  Either that or revert to GG.

Summary (and TLDR): The whole Arccos system feels a little more polished—the appearance of the sensors, the iPhone app (especially editing things like fairway/rough), and the UI on the website.  It feels like a step up from Game Golf.  Biggest drawback right now is the problem with the Apple Watch interaction.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Missouri Swede

[dsc123]

Nice review!

I've been on the fence ever since my GG kept crapping out and became too frustrating to bother using.  I miss all the GG stats.  But spending $ on GG has left me gunshy about buying Arccos.

[Missouri Swede]

2 minutes ago, dsc123 said:

Nice review!

I've been on the fence ever since my GG kept crapping out and became too frustrating to bother using.  I miss all the GG stats.  But spending $ on GG has left me gunshy about buying Arccos.

I understand.  I was frustrated with GG and actually took them off my clubs for a few months at the end of 2018.  In mid 2019 I was thinking of pitching them again.  Then Ping emailed about this collaboration with Arccos, offering free sensors and a 90-day free trial of the service.  Good move on Arccos' part, because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have tried Arccos otherwise.

I ordered the second generation Arccos last night from Dick's sporting goods (the no-subscription version). $199.99 plus tax, less a $20 online coupon for "sign up for text ads from Dick's," free shipping.  So price should be $191 or so after tax.  

Sure would be easier if Arccos just said "pay for lifetime subscription" for $xxx.  I called them on the phone, looking for some way to get something like that.  I mean, I've already got the tags, they're working and synced and all.  But it sounds like they're holding to their price on subscription.  (I can't blame them--if it's what the market will bear, then they can set their price.)  So I'll take the old (newer version) tags off and put them away somewhere, and put on the newer (older version) tags.  Hope the sync goes okay; talking with customer support on the phone, they didn't think there would be a problem with it.

[dsc123]

Well, I didnt hold out very long.

[Yossarian]

anyone here who made the upgrade from the original Arccos sensors to the current ones and saw any improvement?

I still have the old ones, the only issue is that I may go several months without going on a course, and I think those batteries get slowly drained over the times, so I have to perform the diagnostic on each one of them before going to the course.

[MyLeftStrokeJustWentViral]

I’ve had 3 fall out of the grips in the last year. I ordered some replacements - $7 per sensor and $7 for shipping. Not great, I’ll tape them to the grip for a secondary bond from now on. I love the app, the stat tracking, and the browser-based dashboard.

[lastings]

3 hours ago, MyLeftStrokeJustWentViral said:

I’ve had 3 fall out of the grips in the last year. I ordered some replacements - $7 per sensor and $7 for shipping. Not great, I’ll tape them to the grip for a secondary bond from now on. I love the app, the stat tracking, and the browser-based dashboard.

I lost one, and I don’t like the feeling of them moving around, so I actually use hockey tape one time around the sensor and the top of my grip.   I actually love it.  Even if I remove the sensors one day, I’ll probably still wrap the top of my grip with hockey tape. 

[dsc123]

I had gamegolf for years and recently switched to arccos.  It works great.  rarely misses a shot.  no belt unit.  But I'm really disappointed in the stats and app interface.  Gamegolf is far superior in that respect.

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, dsc123 said:

But I'm really disappointed in the stats and app interface.  Gamegolf is far superior in that respect.

Really??

[billchao]

1 hour ago, dsc123 said:

I had gamegolf for years and recently switched to arccos.  It works great.  rarely misses a shot.  no belt unit.  But I'm really disappointed in the stats and app interface.  Gamegolf is far superior in that respect.

I surprised at this, as well. Everything I've seen led me to believe Arccos had the better stats output. The only reason I don't switch is the hardware.