Greg Norman Says Players Content with Top 20s over Wins

[mvmac]

Norman was lifting weights and maintaining good fitness at a very early age, prior to being on tour.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that Norman is/was fit. That's not the topic of the thread.

Norman is making some big assumptions with his opinions about players being complacent. You can't "go through the motions" and keep your card.

[Ferguson]

Not like guys these days. Not nearly. Guys in my day would just as soon lift a 12 ounce can as hit more balls. They NEVER visited the gym. It changed a bit during the 80s and 90s and keeps getting more and more serious. But Greg did not work out nearly as much as the guys in the middle of the 125 today.

Inaccurate statement, Phil. Greg was always physically fit. Always, even in youth. From the linked article from 2004: He's been a muscle-building enthusiast since long before it was popular for golfers. "When I was a kid, we were told that exercising was bad for your golf swing," he says. "I was the one who first changed all that." Now 85 percent of tour players follow regular strength-training programs, according to Norman. "My family's the same way, so it's easy for all of us to self-regulate. I'm aware of my body because I want to be around a long time." http://www.menshealth.com/fitness/greg-normans-fitness-philosophy?category=need-to-know

[iacas]

Inaccurate statement, Phil. Greg was always physically fit. Always, even in youth.

@Phil McGleno didn't say Greg wasn't fit or even that he didn't work out. See also @mvmac 's response.

[mvmac]

Zach Johnson just hit a 9 iron to 15 ft and gave himself a 7.5 out of 10. Doesn't sound complacent to me ;-)

[jamo]

Inaccurate statement, Phil. Greg was always physically fit. Always, even in youth. From the linked article from 2004: He's been a muscle-building enthusiast since long before it was popular for golfers. "When I was a kid, we were told that exercising was bad for your golf swing," he says. "I was the one who first changed all that." Now 85 percent of tour players follow regular strength-training programs, according to Norman. "My family's the same way, so it's easy for all of us to self-regulate. I'm aware of my body because I want to be around a long time." http://www.menshealth.com/fitness/greg-normans-fitness-philosophy?category=need-to-know

[SPOILER=OT]If anyone's ever looking for the reason why a lot of people don't particularly like Greg Norman, it's that bolded line right there. "Me me me me me me! Love me! Respect me!"[/SPOILER]

[Ferguson]

@Phil McGleno didn't say Greg wasn't fit or even that he didn't work out. See also @mvmac 's response.

Yes, I know. Phil said: "But Greg did not work out nearly as much as the guys in the middle of the 125 today." That's inaccurate. Why? The Shark probably worked out more, and not as a reaction to the new level of fitness The Tiger brought to golf, but because that was an integral part of Mr. Norman's healthy lifestyle prior to, during, and after his career in golf.

[newtogolf]

Quote:

Yes, I know.

Phil said: "But Greg did not work out nearly as much as the guys in the middle of the 125 today."

That's inaccurate. Why? The Shark probably worked out more, and not as a reaction to the new level of fitness The Tiger brought to golf, but because that was an integral part of Mr. Norman's healthy lifestyle prior to, during, and after his career in golf.

I think most would credit Gary Player for introducing fitness and healthy lifestyles into golf, not Norman.  Tiger took fitness and strength training for golf to higher levels than anyone else in the sport had.

[dkolo]

Yes, I know. Phil said: "But Greg did not work out nearly as much as the guys in the middle of the 125 today." That's inaccurate. Why? The Shark probably worked out more, and not as a reaction to the new level of fitness The Tiger brought to golf, but because that was an integral part of Mr. Norman's healthy lifestyle prior to, during, and after his career in golf.

You should educate yourself more about what today's Tour players actually do. Articles like these are exceedingly easy to find and should correct your misconceptions about today's Tour players and the hard work they all put in. [URL]http://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2014/01/15/fitness.html[/URL]

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Yes, I know.

Phil said: "But Greg did not work out nearly as much as the guys in the middle of the 125 today."

That's inaccurate. Why? The Shark probably worked out more, and not as a reaction to the new level of fitness The Tiger brought to golf, but because that was an integral part of Mr. Norman's healthy lifestyle prior to, during, and after his career in golf.

You should educate yourself more about what today's Tour players actually do.

Articles like these are exceedingly easy to find and should correct your misconceptions about today's Tour players and the hard work they all put in.

http://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2014/01/15/fitness.html

Even my son's high school team works out at a sports training facility with personalized training. Wow, the cigar playing or beer guzzling pros days are numbered. Angel Miguel might be one of the last of his kind. . .

[billchao]

Angel Miguel might be one of the last of his kind. . .

Never heard of him. He must be one of those guys who don't care enough about winning

[Ferguson]

Quote: I think most would credit Gary Player for introducing fitness and healthy lifestyles into golf, not Norman.  Tiger took fitness and strength training for golf to higher levels than anyone else in the sport had.

[quote name="dkolo" url="/t/80534/greg-norman-says-players-content-with-top-20s-over-wins/216#post_1117404"] You should educate yourself more about what today's Tour players actually do. Articles like these are exceedingly easy to find and should correct your misconceptions about today's Tour players and the hard work they all put in. [URL]http://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2014/01/15/fitness.html[/URL][/quote] People, I did not state that Norman was a pioneer in golf exercise. I also did not state that the exercise and workout regime of the modern player is not intense. Nor did I undermine Tiger or Gary’s influence on exercise in golf. I was simply pointing out that Mr. Norman did indeed exercise heavily and maintain a high level of fitness equal to or exceeding that of the current players on tour before, during and after his career. One would have to say this exercise regime helped The Shark reach his # 1 status in the world and win 60 times in his career. In addition, Sir Nick Faldo who played the same era as The Shark was also heavy into physical fitness which one would have to say helped him to win 40+ times and keep him at # 1 for over 90 weeks. Go to SHARK.COM and type fitness in the website search – 463 results. There is some good stuff here for those who like to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

[iacas]

I did not state that Norman was a pioneer in golf exercise. I also did not state that the exercise and workout regime of the modern player is not intense.

Nor did I undermine Tiger or Gary’s influence on exercise in golf.

I was simply pointing out that Mr. Norman did indeed exercise heavily and maintain a high level of fitness equal to or exceeding that of the current players on tour before, during and after his career. One would have to say this exercise regime helped The Shark reach his # 1 status in the world and win 60 times in his career. In addition, Sir Nick Faldo who played the same era as The Shark was also heavy into physical fitness which one would have to say helped him to win 40+ times and keep him at # 1 for over 90 weeks.

Go to SHARK.COM and type fitness in the website search – 463 results. There is some good stuff here for those who like to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

And again, @Ferguson , nobody that I can recall has said Greg Norman wasn't fit. You're arguing against something nobody has said. You likely believe that by "proving people wrong" about something they've never said you will have "won" the argument. It's called a straw man, and people are generally smart enough to see through it.

Nobody's said Greg Norman wasn't fit. Nobody's said Greg Norman didn't work out.

[skydog]

Two things boggle my mind about this thread:

1.)  The fact that its 13 pages long...

2.) The fact that a lot of guys on here believe touring pros are impervious to human nature. Complacenecy is very much a part of human nature, even for people blessed with a lot of talent and work ethic.

Norman expressed his thoughts in an asinine manner and he definitely hasn't said much to garner likeability points with me (who was a big fan of his years ago) or anyone else, but that doens't necessarily make them wrong. I think he over-generalized a bit but he hasn't completely missed the mark.

[Lihu]

Two things boggle my mind about this thread:

1.)  The fact that its 13 pages long...

2.) The fact that a lot of guys on here believe touring pros are impervious to human nature. Complacenecy is very much a part of human nature, even for people blessed with a lot of talent and work ethic.

Norman expressed his thoughts in an asinine manner and he definitely hasn't said much to garner likeability points with me (who was a big fan of his years ago) or anyone else, but that doens't necessarily make them wrong. I think he over-generalized a bit but he hasn't completely missed the mark.

In his biography, John Daly stated that this was more or less his undoing. I think he could easily have been the best, with more work ethic and the drive.

[Ferguson]

In his biography, John Daly stated that this was more or less his undoing. I think he could easily have been the best, with more work ethic and the drive.

Any of these guys can be the best…... if only. We’ve all known someone personally that has succumbed to the secular things in life. It’s pure selfishness. Fred Couples, prior to being # 1, got some advice from his mentor and pal, Ray Floyd. Ray told him, “to win Fred you do not need to be the best or play your best, you just need to shoot the lowest score.” Read Norman’s article and think about that. It doesn’t matter if you’re big, small, fat or tall – if you shoot the lowest score – you win.

[Phil McGleno]

2.) The fact that a lot of guys on here believe touring pros are impervious to human nature. Complacenecy is very much a part of human nature, even for people blessed with a lot of talent and work ethic.

They are impervious to a great extent or they would not have gotten to where they are-You saying otherwise does not make it so

[iacas]

Fred Couples, prior to being # 1, got some advice from his mentor and pal, Ray Floyd. Ray told him, “to win Fred you do not need to be the best or play your best, you just need to shoot the lowest score.” Read Norman’s article and think about that. It doesn’t matter if you’re big, small, fat or tall – if you shoot the lowest score – you win.

What does that have to do with anything being discussed here? Particularly given my question to you the LAST time you mentioned Fred Couples?

[Ferguson]

What does that have to do with anything being discussed here? Particularly given my question to you the LAST time you mentioned Fred Couples?

It’s my thought that these guys, as described by Greg, striving to win in an environment of such tough competition, clearly riddled with guys that exercise and workout tirelessly, that are possibly or not possibly distracted by the modern electronic frontier, or are possibly being held back by fear might find some real benefit by asking for guidance. Many of these guys that seemingly are content, as described by Norman, could be quite possibly stuck in the silos of their individual regime. My suggestion to these guys trying to win on a consistent basis would be to find a mentor. They should seek out a former #1 player the world, if that’s their goal in life, and chew the fat - learning all there is to learn and taking their game to the next level.