GolfDigest Editor Goes Undercover as a Cart Girl

[Yukari]

So you've completely missed the point, have you?

This is a golf forum so people are talking about what happens on golf courses, strangely.

Please direct us to the quotes where people say it "only happens on golf courses".

The fact that it happens doesn't make it OK.

And one would assume that a person on a golf course would behave better towards women than a bunch of scumbags on the street. Unless they are scumbags on a golf course, obviously.

I love the way that slimy men think that making inappropriate and uncalled for sexual comments is "flirting".

It's not "hitting on girls", it's closer to sexual harassment than anything else a lot of the time.

I think you miss the whole point.  Why do you assume people on the golf courses are any different than the general population?

There are all kinds of people playing golf.  Seems you are insinuating only the well-mannered people play golf.  If you look at other threads (like hitting into other people, throwing temper tantrums, etc.) you'll know that golfers are no different the general population.

My point is simply that it is not surprising to see this kind of behavior as "scumbags" also play golf.  I am just surprised people expect/think only well-mannered people should be (or are) playing this game.

[Shorty]

I think you miss the whole point.  Why do you assume people on the golf courses are any different than the general population?

There are all kinds of people playing golf.  Seems you are insinuating only the well-mannered people play golf.  If you look at other threads (like hitting into other people, throwing temper tantrums, etc.) you'll know that golfers are no different the general population.

My point is simply that it is not surprising to see this kind of behavior as "scumbags" also play golf.  I am just surprised people expect/think only well-mannered people should be (or are) playing this game.

Best to read my posts beford you react. You didn't read the bit I've highlighted for you below.

You may well find that I am agreeing with you.

Here is what i wrote:

And one would assume that a person on a golf course would behave better towards women than a bunch of scumbags on the street. Unless they are scumbags on a golf course, obviously.

[Ernest Jones]

[QUOTE name="kevin2" url="/t/80885/golfdigest-editor-goes-undercover-as-a-cart-girl/54#post_1118686"]   I think that the article goes a bit out of the way to make men look awful, in general, like we are all a bunch of pigs. It is a insult to me. I think it is in bad taste, to be honest. I'm sure there are plenty of men flirting and the like. But, first of all, that goes with the territory of a waitress, which is what they are doing in a largely men's only "bar atmosphere", and 2nd, they are going out of their way, at least in this articles portrayal, to flirt it up with their attire/outfits and provoke flirtation and sexuality. They want men to be all respectful, each and every one of them, then wear non provocative outfits and hire all grandmothers. The employer and employees are taking advantage of men and their obvious weakness for pretty women with, well all that sexuality running a muck, period Truth be told, grandma would bring in 1/4 the profits. Bottom line, this article makes men look bad as a whole. For the record, I've been playing golf for 45 years, and I've never seen any men doing any of this awfulness. Just saying. [/QUOTE] The fact that you characterize golf and golf courses as a men's only bar atmosphere and use that as an explanation of the men's actions is very close to the crux of the issue here. And kindly understand that choice of outfit on the girls' part is not justification for boorishness or worse by men. How a person dresses doesn't necessarily reflect their sexual motivations. Sometimes, women dress in ways you'd label as provocative because it's hot and it helps them be outside working all day or they just like it.  As for, even taking your claims as literally true, characterizing women dressing provocatively and being flirty as "taking advantage of men and their obvious weakness for pretty women," that's the real insult to men that I come away with.

Good post.

[mcanadiens]

We might be taking this article just a little too personally.

In a job like that you'll have 5% who produce 100% of the kind of stories related here. In my time, I remember one random pairing where I thought the guy got a bit over zealous. Then again, maybe they knew each other personally . Most of my lot are at least respectful of everyone if not flat-out gentlemen.

One thing the article does mention the relative seclusion that a golf course generally provides. That could be a bit scary for the cart girl (lady, woman) if she runs into a real nut. I can sympathize with that.

[Big C]

The author was "under cover" for 3 days. She only had one customer interaction that made her feel uncomfortable. The rest of the back and forth was playful banter - much of which was admittedly initiated by the other cart girls. By my math, that's one bad apple out of ... What? 500-plus golfers? I actually think the article reflects amazingly well on the golfing population and mirrors my experience that most golfers are respectful to the cart gals. I think the author (and golf digest, by extension) were expecting to find a lot more bad behavior. It's part of the reason the article has to rely so heavily on anecdotes and generalizations from other cart girls. There is no "meat" whatsoever to this article.

[MrDC]

I read the article this morning, it was not as seedy as one would think, for the most part guys are perfect gentlemen.

But if the model they used in the piece went out there dressed like that she would most certainly get hit on, a lot, wow.

[Big C]

I read the article this morning, it was not as seedy as one would think, for the most part guys are perfect gentlemen.

But if the model they used in the piece went out there dressed like that she would most certainly get hit on, a lot, wow.

Yeah, that was kind of my point. It seems like the editors had an idea of how the story was going to go, and when the majority of golfers weren't obnoxious enough to fit that narrative, they fell back on 2nd party accounts instead.

[RFKFREAK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gboroman

The fact that under this picture they wrote, "this is a model, not the author," really annoys me.

I get not using pictures of the girls who work at the courses wearing the outfits they wear on the golf course but if they felt they had to have a picture for the piece, at least have a picture of the author wearing something similar to what she was wearing while she was doing her research and not try and "sex up" this article by using this kind of photograph.

All in all, yes, men shouldn't behave crudely towards the cart girls (or any girl really).  However, from what the author reports, at least one of the girls knew this she would face this egregious behavior and decided to risk escalating and exploiting it to try and make more in tips:

Quote:

Middle-age guys are the worst. You can tell when a guy's just caged up at home. He's got his ring on, but you can just sense that this is his only release for any out-of-line behavior."

More advice: "If you're wearing bright colors, you'll get better tips. And a skirt. They love short skirts."

The other thing I got from this piece is that yes, there are jerks out there.  However, it didn't seem like there were tons of examples of disgusting behavior, and, as @Big C previously wrote, it seemed like the article relied more on anecdotes from other cart girls rather than behavior that the author found, besides:

Quote:

The first group we come across, I ask what I've decided will be my staple opener: "How're you playing?"

"Oh, don't worry about him," Tracy says, "He's really good at playing ... with his balls." The guys erupt. Regulars. This tone of discourse is clearly long established. However, I would like to change the subject. I notice the target of the joke is wearing a Troon North hat.

"Troon, you ever play there?"

"Yeah," he says, then follows with a shockingly crude remark stamped with a wink. The guys laugh. Tracy hands them their morning beers, and I wonder if the man has a mother. (This was the only truly uncomfortable moment in my three days; the vast majority of guys are either just looking for a drink or are casually flirting.)

Now, we all have our own level of comfortableness with off-color dialogue.  In my opinion, based on the impression I get from her reaction to Tracy's joke, which I didn't think was very off-color, she seems rather straight-laced because she states she wants to change the subject.  She then goes on to say that the guy she was speaking with made a shockingly crude remark.

Now, from my point of view, considering that I've formed the impression that she's rather straight-laced and because she doesn't share what the remark the guy said was, I find it hard to gauge if I would consider what he said to be crude or not.   She then goes on to say that it was the only time that she was truly uncomfortable which, because of the opinion I've formed of the author, makes me think that her interactions, overall, were pretty good with the golfers, or, at least, not terrible.

Most of the courses I play don't have cart girls.  The few occasions where the courses I've played did have a cart girl, since I rarely drink when I play golf and usually bring my own water and Gatorade, I rarely interact with them.  But to give my own anecdotal evidence, the few times I bought something from the cart girl and have been with a group that stopped the cart girl to get something, I usually chat her up some because I'm a chatter and then we part ways.  Maybe I'm lucky, but the guys haven't been rude, crude, or obnoxious.

Therefore, overall, the piece gives examples which demonstrates that there are bad apples in the cart, and the issue is a good one to discuss. but overall, I think it just tries to juice up the issue and could have been done in a better and more "real" way.

[JonMA1]

Most of the courses I play don't have cart girls.

Same here. But it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that this behavior occurs when alcohol is involved. I'm not sure this article is as eye-opening as some seem to think it is.

It's pathetic that a middle-aged man would believe some attractive 20 year woman would have anything to do with him. And even more so if he believes crude jokes are the way to make that happen. It's distasteful, and I'd be embarrassed to have a playing partner act this way. But...

Writing an article in a golf magazine or bitching about it on a forum will likely do little to change this type of person. And while I feel bad for any woman who may be new to this type of job, most of the veterans of the job are probably used to it. And here's a shocker, some might even encourage it for better tips (which is equally pathetic if they whine about how badly they're treated).

There are a-holes in the world who treat women worse than they would allow their wives or daughters to be treated. If we're shocked by this behavior, maybe we should confront them when we witness it.

The fact that under this picture they wrote, "this is a model, not the author," really annoys me.

I get not using pictures of the girls who work at the courses wearing the outfits they wear on the golf course but if they felt they had to have a picture for the piece, at least have a picture of the author wearing something similar to what she was wearing while she was doing her research and not try and "sex up" this article by using this kind of photograph.

Agreed. Using this photo makes me question the credibility of the content of the article.

[BuckeyeNut]

I'm not buying it..........

Not the BS fake photo with a model with her tits falling out.........or the story.

[deason]

This is what I expected from it, in England we either stock up with food and drink (won't be booze before)...get something quick at the turn (again it won't be booze), or do it after.

None of the above applies during competitions for club golfers...for casual golfers who play the goat tracks then they mainly either take there own beer or are already pissed before arriving as they are on a long weekend at the venue playing multiple courses in a society event.

To be honest, over here though I wouldn't see this level of "service" being something that would last commercially, the clubs would just overprice everything and people would bring there own drink anyway, plus its only hot here 3 months of the year.

[mcanadiens]

This is what I expected from it, in England we either stock up with food and drink (won't be booze before)...get something quick at the turn (again it won't be booze), or do it after.

None of the above applies during competitions for club golfers...for casual golfers who play the goat tracks then they mainly either take there own beer or are already pissed before arriving as they are on a long weekend at the venue playing multiple courses in a society event.

To be honest, over here though I wouldn't see this level of "service" being something that would last commercially, the clubs would just overprice everything and people would bring there own drink anyway, plus its only hot here 3 months of the year.

Bringing your own is a big no-no on most of the courses I play here in Ohio. I can only think of one local "goat track" that actively condones it. Most will have scary-looking signs forbidding it. Of course, plenty of people skirt that. Screwdriver in a Gatorade bottle is popular. Some use easily-concealed flasks to good effect. On the courses I play, the rangers usually can't be bothered anyway.

Probably about half of our courses have cart girls. Usually the fancier the course, the more likely they'll have cart girls. One good thing about it, is that it is faster to get something from the cart girl than running to the concession at the turn. As long as some douchebag doesn't spend 10 minutes yakking with her.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deason

This is what I expected from it, in England we either stock up with food and drink (won't be booze before)...get something quick at the turn (again it won't be booze), or do it after.

None of the above applies during competitions for club golfers...for casual golfers who play the goat tracks then they mainly either take there own beer or are already pissed before arriving as they are on a long weekend at the venue playing multiple courses in a society event.

To be honest, over here though I wouldn't see this level of "service" being something that would last commercially, the clubs would just overprice everything and people would bring there own drink anyway, plus its only hot here 3 months of the year.

Bringing your own is a big no-no on most of the courses I play here in Ohio. I can only think of one local "goat track" that actively condones it. Most will have scary-looking signs forbidding it. Of course, plenty of people skirt that. Screwdriver in a Gatorade bottle is popular. Some use easily-concealed flasks to good effect. On the courses I play, the rangers usually can't be bothered anyway.

Probably about half of our courses have cart girls. Usually the fancier the course, the more likely they'll have cart girls. One good thing about it, is that it is faster to get something from the cart girl than running to the concession at the turn. As long as some douchebag doesn't spend 10 minutes yakking with her.

Just curious, what do the signs say? Do they threaten to kick you off the course or something? I would sneak them in anyway if I were so inclined, and I'll never buy movie theater candy either.

[dkolo]

Just curious, what do the signs say? Do they threaten to kick you off the course or something? I would sneak them in anyway if I were so inclined, and I'll never buy movie theater candy either. :-D

My course kindly reminds you that beer doesn't satisfy the course's stringent alcohol requirement, and to man up and bring some gin. I think that's what the sign means, anyway.

[CraiginKSA]

Just wondering.  Has anyone in the history of golf ever closed the deal with a cart girl?  This streak has to be the greatest sequence of strikeouts in history.  Since Ol' Tom Morris invented golf in the 1800's, I have not heard of one single time where a cart girl actually gave one of these hacks the time of day, much less jump into bed with them.

It makes Joe Dimaggio's and Cal Ripken's steaks look like one and done.

[inthehole]

Just wondering.  Has anyone in the history of golf ever closed the deal with a cart girl?  This streak has to be the greatest sequence of strikeouts in history.  Since Ol' Tom Morris invented golf in the 1800's, I have not heard of one single time where a cart girl actually gave one of these hacks the time of day, much less jump into bed with them.

It makes Joe Dimaggio's and Cal Ripken's steaks look like one and done.

LOL ... I agree - that streak is unmatched in the annals of history

[Ernest Jones]

Just wondering.  Has anyone in the history of golf ever closed the deal with a cart girl?  This streak has to be the greatest sequence of strikeouts in history.  Since Ol' Tom Morris invented golf in the 1800's, I have not heard of one single time where a cart girl actually gave one of these hacks the time of day, much less jump into bed with them. It makes Joe Dimaggio's and Cal Ripken's steaks look like one and done.

Don't know about cart girls, but I married my favorite bartendress. :dance:

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraiginKSA

Just wondering.  Has anyone in the history of golf ever closed the deal with a cart girl?  This streak has to be the greatest sequence of strikeouts in history.  Since Ol' Tom Morris invented golf in the 1800's, I have not heard of one single time where a cart girl actually gave one of these hacks the time of day, much less jump into bed with them.

It makes Joe Dimaggio's and Cal Ripken's steaks look like one and done.

Don't know about cart girls, but I married my favorite bartendress.

We have a winner!