Matt Every Unsolicited Advice

[Patch]

I have been reading on other websites where some folks think Matt Every should be DQ'd fro receiving unsolicited advice from a person in the gallery on a putt he made to win at Bay Hill. I am of the opinion since he did not ask for that advice, he did not break any rules. Yes he heard the advice given, but he also studied the putt, and made up his own mind on how to hit it. The advice, although quite correct, was freely offered. That putt happened during the few minutes I watched this tournament, and even the talking heads said the putt was a straight one. He won the contest pure and simple, and why others would cast doubt on the validity of his win is beyond ridiculous. (I am not talking about anyone on this site)

Now it might  a be problem if Every had received unsolicited advice on prior holes during the tournament, but in this case he did nothing wrong.

Glad he won a trip to the Masters for his troubles.

[DeadMan]

Unless I'm missing something, those sites are way off base. Quoting from the rule:

8-1. Advice

During a stipulated round, a player must not:

a. give advice to anyone in the competition playing on the course other than his partner, or

b. ask for advice from anyone other than his partner or either of their caddies.

You have to ask for the advice. He didn't do that, so he's fine.

Plus, you really can't get into policing stuff like that. The gallery shouts advice at people all the time. Just because the player's play aligned with that advice doesn't mean he violated a rule.

Seems like an interesting thought exercise in the rules, but an easily answerable one.

[wmadoty]

He did not ask for it and he certainly will not be successful in having the gallery remain silent. There is nothing wrong with his win. There is really nothing to discuss.

[Golfingdad]

A player cannot ask for advice and a player cannot give advice.  Nothing in there about a player not being allowed to receive advice.  He did nothing wrong.

[boogielicious]

A player cannot ask for advice and a player cannot give advice.  Nothing in there about a player not being allowed to receive advice.  He did nothing wrong.

If we're going to talk about violations, I'd rather somebody try and explain to me what the heck Ernie Els did on Saturday and how that wasn't a violation.

I only turned it on in the middle of his debacle, but in the couple of minutes I watched I saw him take several practice swings in the hazard, and it looked like he was definitely grounding the club.  What happened, there?

That is really off topic for this thread Drew. I will start an Ernie thread.

[Ferguson]

I have been reading on other websites where some folks think Matt Every should be DQ'd fro receiving unsolicited advice from a person in the gallery on a putt he made to win at Bay Hill. I am of the opinion since he did not ask for that advice, he did not break any rules. Yes he heard the advice given, but he also studied the putt, and made up his own mind on how to hit it. The advice, although quite correct, was freely offered. That putt happened during the few minutes I watched this tournament, and even the talking heads said the putt was a straight one. He won the contest pure and simple, and why others would cast doubt on the validity of his win is beyond ridiculous. (I am not talking about anyone on this site) Now it might  a be problem if Every had received unsolicited advice on prior holes during the tournament, but in this case he did nothing wrong. Glad he won a trip to the Masters for his troubles. :dance:

He would have to ask advice. No penalty. Fans used to advise Colin Montgomerie to get a boob reduction, and that was not considered "advice." Possibly could have helped reduce that reverse C-cup swing.

[Shindig]

If you could really get a player DQ'd that way, me and the rest of the Tiger Tacticians would help our man win the U.S. Open this year by giving illegal advice to everyone else in the field. He'd win by default! Hearing advice you didn't ask for isn't against the rules. Acting on legally-heard advice isn't illegal either. Can you imagine what the result would be if he heard "straight in" and were then [i]required to play the putt as not-straight-in[/i]? As for hearing on other sites that people want Every DQ'd... there are plenty of idiots on the internet. You can't let that bother you.

[jamo]

Damn. There goes my plan of following Phil around Augusta National shouting, "DIE THE BALL INTO THE HOLE!!!"

[liquor box]

Unless I'm missing something, those sites are way off base. Quoting from the rule:

You have to ask for the advice. He didn't do that, so he's fine.

Plus, you really can't get into policing stuff like that. The gallery shouts advice at people all the time. Just because the player's play aligned with that advice doesn't mean he violated a rule.

Seems like an interesting thought exercise in the rules, but an easily answerable one.

If advice from the crowd was breaking the rules the every time a ball was sunk it would be  a penalty, every shot from tee to green is accompanied by "in the hole".

I personally dont like advice on the greens by caddies or help with lining up on tees or fairways. To me a caddie should only be able to provide advice the golfer could have written down eg distances.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquor box

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadMan

Unless I'm missing something, those sites are way off base. Quoting from the rule:

You have to ask for the advice. He didn't do that, so he's fine.

Plus, you really can't get into policing stuff like that. The gallery shouts advice at people all the time. Just because the player's play aligned with that advice doesn't mean he violated a rule.

Seems like an interesting thought exercise in the rules, but an easily answerable one.

If advice from the crowd was breaking the rules the every time a ball was sunk it would be  a penalty, every shot from tee to green is accompanied by "in the hole".

Shouting "In the hole" is not advice.  I could say that to my fellow competitor in a tournament every time he hit a shot and all he could do is give me a dirty look, unless I crossed the line enough to make it an etiquette breach.  Even then it would be up to the committee as whether it was a serious enough breach to be deserving of disqualification.

Quote:

I personally dont like advice on the greens by caddies or help with lining up on tees or fairways. To me a caddie should only be able to provide advice the golfer could have written down eg distances.

I don't get this.  The caddie has always, for a few hundred years, been part of a team.  As such, the caddie's duty is more than just a beast of burden.  If that was the case, then the player might just as well use a donkey.  At least a donkey wouldn't expect a 10% cut of the player's winnings.

In a team event, would you deny the player the opportunity to confer with his partner for such advice?  If so then you really don't have much of an idea of the game's history.  A team is a team, and aside from actually making the stroke, they are both part of the action, both have an interest in the end result, and the caddie should have as much input as the player desires to give him.

If you go to a course like St. Andrews, you are almost expected to take a caddie, and to heed his advice.  My understanding is that the caddie is a big part of the experience, and that first time players who don't use a caddie have a hard time with the course.  The caddie has always assisted with things like club selection and green reading.  It's a traditional part of the game of golf.

The only thing wrong with caddies is that most courses no longer even offer them as an option.  It would be nice to splurge occasionally and use a caddie, but I've never even played a course that offers the service.

[Rulesman]

It would be nice to splurge occasionally and use a caddie, but I've never even played a course that offers the service.

I am available at pretty short notice. All I ask for is travel and accommodation expenses.

[RussUK]

Shouting "In the hole" is not advice.  I could say that to my fellow competitor in a tournament every time he hit a shot and all he could do is give me a dirty look, unless I crossed the line enough to make it an etiquette breach.  Even then it would be up to the committee as whether it was a serious enough breach to be deserving of disqualification.

I do that all the time to my brother in law, just to annoy him, he's hilarious when he gets in a mood, throws a club better than Rory Mcllroy! Draw the line at "mashed potato" though as thart would just make him hungry

[liquor box]

Shouting "In the hole" is not advice.  I could say that to my fellow competitor in a tournament every time he hit a shot and all he could do is give me a dirty look, unless I crossed the line enough to make it an etiquette breach.  Even then it would be up to the committee as whether it was a serious enough breach to be deserving of disqualification.

I don't get this.  The caddie has always, for a few hundred years, been part of a team.  As such, the caddie's duty is more than just a beast of burden.  If that was the case, then the player might just as well use a donkey.  At least a donkey wouldn't expect a 10% cut of the player's winnings.

In a team event, would you deny the player the opportunity to confer with his partner for such advice?  If so then you really don't have much of an idea of the game's history.  A team is a team, and aside from actually making the stroke, they are both part of the action, both have an interest in the end result, and the caddie should have as much input as the player desires to give him.

If you go to a course like St. Andrews, you are almost expected to take a caddie, and to heed his advice.  My understanding is that the caddie is a big part of the experience, and that first time players who don't use a caddie have a hard time with the course.  The caddie has always assisted with things like club selection and green reading.  It's a traditional part of the game of golf.

The only thing wrong with caddies is that most courses no longer even offer them as an option.  It would be nice to splurge occasionally and use a caddie, but I've never even played a course that offers the service.

I have no issue with assistance with club selection as this is something the player could do but the caddie save time. I dont think having another person tell you where to aim is in the spirit of the game.

This allows someone who does not possess one of the skills required to succeed to be able to putt successfully. I realise there is more to putting than line selection but it is pretty important

[Rulesman]

I dont think having another person tell you where to aim is in the spirit of the game.

What difference in the spirit of the game is there in someone choosing and recommending the best club for a player and telling him which is the best direction to play? Surely club selection is a skill.

What do you mean by 'spirit of the game'?

[dkolo]

This kind of literal reading of the rule would lead to the absurd outcome of a player being penalized for taking advice after hitting a drive into someone's dinner in a hospitality tent just because someone yelled "mashed potatoes" on the last hole. If the player isn't doing anything to solicit the advice, a schmuck yelling out isn't a penalty on the player just because the guy happened to be right.

[Rulzguy]

I agree with dkolo. There is not penalty for someone in the gallery yelling out advice to a player, unless it was solicited. If the player were to be penalized for someone yelling advice, people would start yelling at other competitors to cause them to incure penalties. Instead of 'you da man' it would turn into 'it breaks hard left.' The situation with Michelle Wie at the Open was a different situation. It could have been truly intended to assist his daughter. Fortunately it did not turn into a big argument whether it was advice or not.

[Golfingdad]

Hypothetical:

Someone in gallery yells out advice to Every but he doesn't hear it and he turns to the guy and either says "What?" or makes a gesture asking it to be repeated ... how close is he getting to the "soliciting" advice line now?

[dkolo]

Hypothetical:

Someone in gallery yells out advice to Every but he doesn't hear it and he turns to the guy and either says "What?" or makes a gesture asking it to be repeated ... how close is he getting to the "soliciting" advice line now?

I'd think it depends on what he thought the guy was saying that he wanted repeated. And whether he could reasonably have assumed that what the fan was saying that he didn't hear wasn't advice.