Relief From Cart Path and Obstruction Question

[newtogolf]

I had a situation come up and wasn't sure I handled it right.  I was playing at an away course, my ball landed on the cart path towards the left side and there was a tractor and trailer (mowers, etc) parked about 1 foot off the cart path so there was no way for me to take normal relief.  My playing partners told me I could drop my ball as far back as I needed to clear myself of the obstruction.   Right behind the trailer would have placed me behind a group of trees and the trailer so I'd have no chance of reaching the green, they told me I could go further back so that I'd have a shot at the green since if the tractor and trailer weren't there I'd have a shot at the green under normal relief.

I wasn't sure they were right but I also didn't want to ruin a wedge hitting the ball off the concrete cart path.  Were they right or did I violate the rules?

[Gunther]

Sounds like you penalized yourself by going far enough back to clear the movable obstructions and the trees. Not sure how many yards that was but sounds like a bunch. Couldn't you have gone right of the path, if the trucks were left, and not cost yourself so many yards? As it stands, I believe your move was OK, just appears perhaps too penal.

[Lihu]

Is it possible to do a rough overhead sketch of the situation?

[Wendy Dominick]

You should have taken relief from the 2 situations separately. Both the cart path and the tractors/mowers are immoveable obstructions. You were not entitled to drop back to be clear of the tractor.

However, Decision 1-4/8.5 comes to the rescue!

1-4/8.5

Nearest Point of Relief from Cart Path Is in Casual Water, Nearest Point of Relief from Casual Water Is Back on Cart Path; Impracticable for Player to Drop Ball Into Area of Casual Water

Q.In the circumstances described in Decision 1-4/8 , if the nature of the area of casual water were such that it was impracticable or impossible for the player to drop the ball, when taking relief from the cart path, into the area of casual water, how may the player proceed?

A.If it is impracticable for the player to proceed under one of the two Rules, he may, in equity (Rule 1-4 ), obtain relief without penalty as follows: Using the position of the ball on the cart path, the nearest point of relief from both the cart path and the casual water must be determined that is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief, on a part of the course that avoids interference by the cart path and the casual water and is not in a hazard or on a putting green.

It would be considered impracticable for the player to drop the ball in the area of casual water if the casual water were so deep that unreasonable effort would be required to retrieve a ball lying in this area of casual water - see Decision 25-1/1 .

Other examples of conditions into which it would be considered impracticable for the player to drop the ball would include:

• in or under an immovable obstruction such that it would be extremely difficult or impossible to drop the ball (e.g., inside a locked building or beneath a rain-shelter that is raised off the ground).
• within a large hole made by a greenkeeper or similar area of ground under repair from which the player could not reasonably be expected to play a ball.

[Club Rat]

Isn't this a situation where you first take the relief of the ball on cart part to the closest point.

Drop, and then take relief from the immoveable obstructions?

[Wendy Dominick]

This seems to be a case like the first bullet in the Decision. there is no interference from the tractor, just the cart path. But, it is impossible to drop because it would be in/on the tractor.

[Rulesman]

My playing partners told me I could drop my ball as far back as I needed to clear myself of the obstruction.   Right behind the trailer would have placed me behind a group of trees and the trailer so I'd have no chance of reaching the green, they told me I could go further back so that I'd have a shot at the green since if the tractor and trailer weren't there I'd have a shot at the green under normal relief.

I wasn't sure they were right but I also didn't want to ruin a wedge hitting the ball off the concrete cart path.  Were they right or did I violate the rules?

Both the path and the tractor are Immovable Obstructions.

You must follow the procedure under 24-2 for the path and tractor separately. But you may take them in any order.

See Wendy's post if the problem cannot be resolved in one or two steps

That option (line of sight/line of play) is not available when taking relief from an Immovable Obstruction.

You may go back as far as you like along a line from the hole through the spot where the ball lies if you are taking penalty relief under the Unplayable Ball rule (Rule 28).

The other situation where you can go back along the line is when taking penalty relief from a Water Hazard, when the line is from the hole through the place where the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard.

[Fourputt]

Call the shop and get the maintenance crew to move their tractor?  Technically it is a movable obstruction.  Doesn't sound like a proper place for it to be parked in the first place.

[Rulesman]

Technically it is a movable obstruction.

The definition doesn't say that, unless the key is in the ignition, the brake is off or a driver is available..

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Technically it is a movable obstruction.

The definition doesn't say that, unless the key is in the ignition, the brake is off or a driver is available..

Hey - I made a suggestion, slightly tongue in cheek, but still a viable alternative.  In my book a tractor is movable.  If no operator is available without undue delay, then it becomes immovable, but you can't know for certain without asking.

And if he takes relief from a movable obstruction by dropping, he is subject to penalty, so best to be certain.

[natureboy]

The definition doesn't say that, unless the key is in the ignition, the brake is off or a driver is available..

Would a key in the ignition require you to play it as movable rather than immovable, or is it the player's choice if it is not something for general public driving like a golf cart...or even if? I would expect most grounds crews at 'serious golfer' courses would tend to be close by (and available for a request to move) such a piece of equipment and not left unattended on the course.

[DrvFrShow]

Just to stir the pot here.... suppose the maintenance worker parked the tractor there after you hit your ball then got into a cart and left? You know - went on break. Do you get screwed because it's now in your way when it wasn't there before? It could happen. I would hope you don't.

[ColinL]

Would a key in the ignition require you to play it as movable rather than immovable, or is it the player's choice if it is not something for general public driving like a golf cart...or even if? I would expect most grounds crews at 'serious golfer' courses would tend to be close by (and available for a request to move) such a piece of equipment and not left unattended on the course.

You would have to make your decision on that.  If you are not capable of driving the machine or think that it would not be permissible for you to do so, then consider it immovable.

[Rulesman]

Just to stir the pot here.... suppose the maintenance worker parked the tractor there after you hit your ball then got into a cart and left? You know - went on break. Do you get screwed because it's now in your way when it wasn't there before? It could happen. I would hope you don't.

Good question. You are entitled to the lie you had when your ball came to rest but swing and line of play are not part of the lie. IMO an equity ruling should give relief.

[acetoolguy]

So if your nearest point of relief is the left side of the path but there is a cart there, why doesn't the NPR become the right side of the path? It seems if you have to move it off the path, then away from the equipment your moving pretty far away from the original location.

Then you have a discussion in the club house about training the help.

[Rulesman]

So if your nearest point of relief is the left side of the path but there is a cart there, why doesn't the NPR become the right side of the path? It seems if you have to move it off the path, then away from the equipment your moving pretty far away from the original location.

They are two separate obstructions and the rules have an answer for it, which may take you to the right. See post #4

[turtleback]

This would be a great situation to test out "simplified" versions of the rules, should anyone accept @iacas 's challenge.

[bubble]

Isn't this a situation where you first take the relief of the ball on cart part to the closest point.

Drop, and then take relief from the immoveable obstructions?

pretty much so.

nevertheless you dont go backwards. if relief gives you a shot against the machine or in the bushes thats your problem and you can basically use the unplayable to go backwards or chip out laterally.