The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[naws-golfer]

The rub comes when courses can do more, but don't do more.

I find it hard to blame course when they try and squeeze extra groups on the course. its pure $$$.

IF you are going to do that, then your marshalling needs to be on par with that as well.

Of course no courses actually do this. there's no incentive unless people complain, or report back to the clubhouse.

just my experience...

[RGoosen]

The rub comes when courses can do more, but don't do more.  I find it hard to blame course when they try and squeeze extra groups on the course. its pure $$$. IF you are going to do that, then your marshalling needs to be on par with that as well.  Of course no courses actually do this. there's no incentive unless people complain, or report back to the clubhouse. just my experience...

You are correct. Referring to my example above - the question is how many less groups would they have to send off both tees to allow for 4 hour rounds. It seems to me if they sent two less groups out at the end it would solve the problem. It's not like those two groups couldn't tee off in the afternoon.

[Dave2512]

I see more issues from mismanagement than stuffing the course. We don't have a starter most days. The pace gets whacky because groups start at weird intervals. May have three groups on the first hole if a group of impatient short hitters hit at the first opportunity. Creates a little clog that is tough to get around.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by naws-golfer

The rub comes when courses can do more, but don't do more.

I find it hard to blame course when they try and squeeze extra groups on the course. its pure $$$.

IF you are going to do that, then your marshalling needs to be on par with that as well.

Of course no courses actually do this. there's no incentive unless people complain, or report back to the clubhouse.

just my experience...

You are correct. Referring to my example above - the question is how many less groups would they have to send off both tees to allow for 4 hour rounds. It seems to me if they sent two less groups out at the end it would solve the problem. It's not like those two groups couldn't tee off in the afternoon.

If those groups don't want to play in the afternoon then you just lost a chunk of revenue.  And you are assuming that there is already nobody playing in the afternoon.  In my experience that may be true on a variable basis during the week (Mon-Thur), but where I worked in the southwest Denver area, on the weekends, which included Friday, the course was packed from open at sunrise to at least mid afternoon.  Weekdays might or might not be busy after noon - that was hard to predict.

I don't know where you hit on 2 groups either.  Looking at 6 hours of "prime time", you would lose at least one group per hour, depending on how much the spacing was changed (going from 8 minutes to 10 minutes you lose 1½ groups per hour).  Figure $200 per foursome and the course is risking $1200 per day, or $8400 per week by just eliminating a single tee time each hour in the morning.

Much cheaper to hire part time rangers at $8 per hour or less and give them cheap or free golf.  Just do so and give them the authority to do the job they were hired for and back them up when necessary.

[Big Lex]

I have played rounds is about three hours as a threesome and twosome. I've played 4 hour rounds and higher as a threesome and foursome. Sometimes it's slow people clogging things. Other times it's a tough course with multiple people not playing well. I've had 4 hour matches where everyone is playing well, but everyone is trying really hard and taking a bit more time. In general I am definitely in favor of getting things moving, keeping rounds at 3-3:30 if possible. But I think it's hard and a bit dogmatic to be too much of a stickler about it. It's a game, we are supposed to be having fun, not worrying about how fast we play. Sometimes we want to move a little slower and take our time. If that means we have 4-4:15 rounds occasionally, I don't mind too much. I don't like feeling rushed if I am working hard on a shot. I understand and agree we should pick up if we are out of the whole or otherwise stinking things up, but I don't like being pressured not to putt out if I want to do so. I golf at a private club during hours where it is all avid, experienced golfers. The only things I wish I could change that I think would help the pace is reminding everyone to play when ready, to stay alert to help shorten ball searches, and to force members to use caddies and fore caddies to help speed things along.

[RGoosen]

If those groups don't want to play in the afternoon then you just lost a chunk of revenue.  And you are assuming that there is already nobody playing in the afternoon.  In my experience that may be true on a variable basis during the week (Mon-Thur), but where I worked in the southwest Denver area, on the weekends, which included Friday, the course was packed from open at sunrise to at least mid afternoon.  Weekdays might or might not be busy after noon - that was hard to predict. I don't know where you hit on 2 groups either.  Looking at 6 hours of "prime time", you would lose at least one group per hour, depending on how much the spacing was changed (going from 8 minutes to 10 minutes you lose 1½ groups per hour).  Figure $200 per foursome and the course is risking $1200 per day, or $8400 per week by just eliminating a single tee time each hour in the morning.   Much cheaper to hire part time rangers at $8 per hour or less and give them cheap or free golf.  Just do so and give them the authority to do the job they were hired for and back them up when necessary.

I agree with you on everything. This issue I was referring to only goes for Myrtle Beach and Hilton Head where many courses like to send people off the front and back tees. Luckily in Atlanta I don't have to deal with this. Pace of play is almost never an issue b/c I tee off at the crack of dawn. Sometimes I travel 30 minutes to an hour from my house just so I can tee off before the slow pokes. The few times I get pissed is when I have driven an hour to get one of the 1st 2 or 3 tee times and I get stuck behind someone that thinks pace of play should be the maximum for the course. On again that rarely happens.

[Aflighter]

Good comments...keep them coming!   As some have nicely noted, the course itself plays a significant factor.   Those playing classic old courses with greens and tees close together should get around significantly faster than a modern course designed to be a "riders only" course because of the large distances between many of the holes.  The travel time adds up quickly.....IE.....even the drive to the fairway can take awhile when you have to drive around/down/and through a canyon to get to the fairway from the tee.

Yeah the older country clubs with next hole tees near the past holes greens dont take aslong where as some courses you will literally take a minute or two to get to next tee box.

[dave s]

The 'reality' of weekend golf is 4:00 or more.  I've played either Saturday or Sunday the past 6 weeks with 3 other guys.  We didn't finish a single round in under 4:00 hours.  All but one round was right about the 4:30 mark.  We also teed off at varying times from 7:20, (the earliest) and 10:20 (just this past Sunday) being the latest.  No correlation between earlier = faster or later = slower.

Other factors:  No tee time was 'backed up' from our scheduled time;  No significant backups or holdups on the courses that I recall; No group pushing us from behind; Weather has been perfect in NE Ohio for the past 2 months.  Our group shoots anywhere from low-80s to mid-90s.

4:00 - 4:30 is a very acceptable leisurely pace at which to play, IMO.  Playing 'speed golf' (sub 3:15 rounds) forces mistakes in my game.  Relax.  Enjoy the outdoors, beautiful setting and the nice weather.  Four + hours on a beautiful golf course is never a bad thing.

dave

[Braivo]

4:00 - 4:30 is a very acceptable leisurely pace at which to play, IMO.  Playing 'speed golf' (sub 3:15 rounds) forces mistakes in my game.  Relax.  Enjoy the outdoors, beautiful setting and the nice weather.  Four + hours on a beautiful golf course is never a bad thing.

I can play alone on an empty, familiar course in 2:15 - 2:30 without feeling like I am rushing or impacting my game.

When I am in a foursome on a busy course and it takes 4-4.5 hrs I really don't seem to notice or feel agitated, I just enjoy the day on the course with friends, like you said. I do get anxious when it pushes 5 hours though.

Sometimes my brother and I will find ourselves on an empty course early in the morning and we'll just take our time, look longer for lost balls, talk a bit more than usual, etc. and we will enjoy a 4 hour round. We aren't holding anyone up and we enjoy the time together.

It really comes down to expectations. If I expect to be done and home in 3 hours I am setting myself up for frustration. Likewise, if I expect to take a leisurely 4+ hours but my playing partners and pace of the course feel otherwise I will get frustrated. I just go with what the course is giving me that day, no worries.

[Suchmo]

I almost can't believe that some people play 5 hour rounds. If my first round had taken that long, there likely wouldn't have been a second. Rounds at my local pay-and-play course rarely go past 4 hours, even with elderly foursomes walking the course. As a two, 3.5 hours is a maximum if we don't get repeatedly held up.

[RGoosen]

I almost can't believe that some people play 5 hour rounds. If my first round had taken that long, there likely wouldn't have been a second. Rounds at my local pay-and-play course rarely go past 4 hours, even with elderly foursomes walking the course. As a two, 3.5 hours is a maximum if we don't get repeatedly held up.

It shocks me too when the round takes over 4 hours. There has to be a lot of BS going on to take that long. Those that want to play 4:20 or more make excuses that you have to be a strong player to play quick. I disagree. My 70 year old neighbor can play fast and he shoots 90-95. Why do some people look for a golf ball beyond 60 seconds is beyond me. Look at the putt one time on each side of the hole and pull the trigger. If you ever hit a professional or mulligan on the course have more than one golf ball in your pocket (if you don't feel like carrying 2 or 3 balls in your pocket we don't want to wait for you to walk back to the cart to get another ball). Play ready golf...you don't always have to play in turn. Wishful thinking I guess...sigh

[phan52]

I had to vote 4:00 to 4:30 because that is what it normally takes to play at my home course. We are required to play in 4:10 or less. If I play in the first group of the day or when there is nobody in front of us, we always play under 4:00, but that is a rarity as my course gets a LOT of play. I think we need to lower the requirement to 4:00, but I lose that debate every time at Committee meetings.

[Gator Hazard]

I voted for the 4:30-5 hours as I am an absolute beginner and thus it takes a little longer (even with cart as my home course is golf cart only, at least when we play).  I/we make it a point to never slow others up and will wave other groups through, however this pace has been even with keeping up with those in front of us.  One weekend we only let one group ahead of us because we were waiting on the group in front of us as well.

[Fourputt]

Just finished 9 holes (senior league) playing as a fivesome in 2 hours flat.  And did that with one guy who is so deliberate (the nice way to say slow) that for him, Valium would be a pep pill.

We don't speed - we play a most relaxed round, but 2 hours is the longest 9 hole round I've played in league this summer.  We do have the advantage of not having to worry about a busy course.  There is a group of ladies who play every Wednesday morning, and if they start on #1, we just start on #3 and #5 (if we have enough for 3 groups then the third group starts on #7.  #7 tee is the longest drive from the clubhouse, about 150 yards.

[Gator Hazard]

My playing partner is very deliberate and takes his sweet time.  I agree with part of what he is doing, as he says, we are out there to enjoy it, and relax and play it but sometimes I wish he would be just a bit more considerate of other players.  Of course we let people through whenever they are on us but I feel that if he just sped up a  bit we wouldn't have to let people through all that often on the course we play .  The other thing he does is he is that guy who takes 3 or 4 or 5 practice swings where two of them are usually a little chunky.  I have started bringing these things up a bit, he's a good guy and a good partner however so we will work it out, surely I do things that agitate him as well.

[Aguirre]

I just played 6 rounds in Myrtle Beach. Even with sending players off the front and back 9 I only had one round last longer than 4 hrs. Heritage took close to 5 hrs.

For some reason the Legends group: Heritage/Moorland/Heathleand/TPC Myrtle cannot control pace of play. The only 4:30-5:00 hour rounds have been with this group. It is a shame too b/c I really like Heritage and Moorland. Their excuse will be we send groups off the 1st and 10th tee box, but they did the same thing at True Blue, Carolina National, Pawley's, and Grande Dunes and my longest round at those courses was 4 hrs.

I'm back in Myrtle in two weeks.  Playing Heritage and one day we plan to play 36 at Legends.   Looks like I have something to look forward to.

[colin007]

A foursome taking 4 hours to play on an open course is SLOW. Played today in a threesome, took 3:50 and felt like a death slog. Waiting on every hole..

[RGoosen]

@Aguirre Heritage was in great shape. It is similar to Caledonia. Mooreland and Heathland are a lot of fun as well. I have played Heritage 4 times and twice the pace of play was decent (4 hrs or less). Last time was 5 hrs...maybe it was a bad day? Mooreland/Heathland are great courses as well. I have played them 6 times. Two rounds at 4-4:15. The other 4 rounds were 4:30-5 hr rounds. Afternoon rounds there can be really brutal (5 hr rounds with 95 degree heat). It all depends on expectations. If you are warned up front that they double tee front/back nines and that they do a poor job of managing it, you will be less upset if the round approaches 4:30 to 5 hours. I will continue to play them, but probably not as often knowing that the other courses in Myrtle don't seem to have the same issues. Try not to focus on your watch. Think I'm on vacation, I could be doing paperwork, and what a great course I'm currently playing. If you can manage that you'll have a great time. :)