Can you be a rules lawyer and cheat at the same time?

[Cupcakus]

I played with someone new a couple weeks past in a foursome, stroke play, nothing competitive. Nice guy, but a real stickler for rules and etiquette. Both of which I am fine with. But they guy also cheats like crazy. He will hand wedge his tee shot from a fence line, improve every lie before he hits, pick up every putt within 3 feet, and then freak out if someone doesn't pull the pin for his 40ft putt. I've encountered the rules lawyer and the consummate cheat but never both together. Is this a common thing? Frustrated me more than usual... Oh and then over beers after the round I got to hear all about his 1.7 index.

[Toby]

Just count his strokes with penalty after each hole and log it.. when he says he got a four on the hole just talk him through his shots and cheating stroke for stroke.. he will either square his shit away and play right or stop bragging about his awsome index..

If i am just playing for shits and giggles i could careless what anyone does or says they got..

I have a partner that i play with all the time and he will drop balls hit one OB then call it a mulligan, etc etc then he turns his card in showing he was only 15 over for the day.. Come tournament time he bitches because he can never place in his bracket.. Well no shit Mike.. Stop turning in BS cards and play right by the rules and turn in legit cards and your cap will match your abilities.

[taxgolf]

If it's not a match, I let it go. If it gets to ugly, I politely remember him that I am playing happy golf. And that he is ruining the round that way. If he is playing a q card, I politely remember him that I am fine that he is not playing within the rules.

[Vinsk]

Maybe it's a personality thing here but I don't understand those of you who bring up cheaters and seem reluctant to call them out. Golf is a game with rules. If you were playing chess with him and he moved a pawn 4 spaces...do you just sit there and fume to yourselves? What the hell is going on with you guys? Call them out! "Put me down for a 4" You scored a 6. "Oh...well that first drive was a mulligan" Lol! Yeah I wish that was how it worked. Come on man...are we gonna play by the rules or not? It's that simple. I understand creating awkwardness is being avoided but come on, there are rules! Get yer man pants on and speak up. I get there are times to be easy going like if your playing partner gets a new set of iron head covers and asks what you think you don't blurt out you think he's a tool. But when playing, if you haven't asked prior to playing if you're adhering to the rules...then when the first infraction occurs ....do so then. Criminey, what's the problem here?

[14ledo81]

Maybe it's a personality thing here but I don't understand those of you who bring up cheaters and seem reluctant to call them out. Golf is a game with rules. If you were playing chess with him and he moved a pawn 4 spaces...do you just sit there and fume to yourselves? What the hell is going on with you guys? Call them out!

"Put me down for a 4"

You scored a 6.

"Oh...well that first drive was a mulligan"

Lol! Yeah I wish that was how it worked. Come on man...are we gonna play by the rules or not?

It's that simple. I understand creating awkwardness is being avoided but come on, there are rules! Get yer man pants on and speak up. I get there are times to be easy going like if your playing partner gets a new set of iron head covers and asks what you think you don't blurt out you think he's a tool.

But when playing, if you haven't asked prior to playing if you're adhering to the rules...then when the first infraction occurs ....do so then. Criminey, what's the problem here?

There is a bit of a difference.  You can (and I do often) hit the ball around on a golf course, not really playing golf (not by the rules).

It is kind of tough to play chess with someone by randomly moving pieces around.  The game would last one move.  My knight does a leap over all of your pieces, and takes out your king.......

Of course, if the person is trying (pretending) to play by the rules, or we are in competition with each other, I would definitely call him out.

[ghalfaire]

I played with someone new a couple weeks past in a foursome, stroke play, nothing competitive. Nice guy, but a real stickler for rules and etiquette. Both of which I am fine with. But they guy also cheats like crazy. He will hand wedge his tee shot from a fence line, improve every lie before he hits, pick up every putt within 3 feet, and then freak out if someone doesn't pull the pin for his 40ft putt. I've encountered the rules lawyer and the consummate cheat but never both together.

Is this a common thing? Frustrated me more than usual... Oh and then over beers after the round I got to hear all about his 1.7 index.

I guess everyone is different, but I would ignore the conduct unless we were playing for something.  For me golf, stroke play anyway, is about what I do and not anyone else.  So when playing with someone who tends to ignore the rules and tell me how well they are playing, I just listen nod and go on with my game.  If we are playing for something I like the Toby response above.  Keep track and if he give you a false score then walk them through the hole they just played.

[Patch]

If it's a sanctioned event, and you see cheating going on, talk to the committee about it. If it's just a leisurely, fun round, then play by rules, (if you want to) and don't worry what else is going on around you. A player needlessly worrying about others actions on the golf course, detracts from that player's focus,  which  in turn hurts their score. I see cheaters all the time when I am out golfing. I am out there to play my own game and have fun. What others do is their problem, or to their credit.

Now to answer the OPs question. Yes, there are rules  lawyers out there who cheat at golf. I golfed with one from another golf forum. He was the forum's so called rules guru. He would foot wedge balls, and write down creative scores. I made a remark to him about one of his blatant mistakes, and he replied, "no problem, we are just out here having fun"............I still beat his score, while playing by the rules.

[turtleback]

I played with someone new a couple weeks past in a foursome, stroke play, nothing competitive. Nice guy, but a real stickler for rules and etiquette. Both of which I am fine with. But they guy also cheats like crazy. He will hand wedge his tee shot from a fence line, improve every lie before he hits, pick up every putt within 3 feet, and then freak out if someone doesn't pull the pin for his 40ft putt. I've encountered the rules lawyer and the consummate cheat but never both together.

Is this a common thing? Frustrated me more than usual... Oh and then over beers after the round I got to hear all about his 1.7 index.

Dishonest law lawyers exist so it is no surprise that dishonest rules lawyers exist.

[Sante TwoGloves]

I told a story of a guy who snuck in a practice round before our big event when everyone agreed not to. Tax lawyer.

[vangator]

Played in a Ryder Cup tournament. It was modified alternate shot (two balls in play per team). We're on the 17th green and my team is 1 up. When you get to your partners ball, you replace it with one of your own and throw theirs back to them. This one guy (on opponents team) is known to "bend" the rules whenever possible. Their balls are lying 180 degrees from each other on opposite sides of the hole. The guy rolls his partners ball back to him along their putt line. This showed both of them the break of the ball. I calmly picked up my ball and called it match over. They called us every name in the book. They brought it up to the rules committee which upheld my actions. Cheating is cheating, especially when my wallet is involved. PS, this guy is our league president.

[taxgolf]

I told a story of a guy who snuck in a practice round before our big event when everyone agreed not to. Tax lawyer.

I can not believe he did that:-D

[Sante TwoGloves]

I can not believe he did that:-D

Yup, and he got spanked for it too. I emailed him just a few weeks ago after 30 years and invited him to my big event. Still an asshat.:-P

[mvmac]

Dishonest law lawyers exist so it is no surprise that dishonest rules lawyers exist.

Right, I voted yes in the poll.

Also the guy doesn't sound like a lot of fun to play with.

[billchao]

I played with someone new a couple weeks past in a foursome, stroke play, nothing competitive. Nice guy, but a real stickler for rules and etiquette. Both of which I am fine with. But they guy also cheats like crazy. He will hand wedge his tee shot from a fence line, improve every lie before he hits, pick up every putt within 3 feet, and then freak out if someone doesn't pull the pin for his 40ft putt. I've encountered the rules lawyer and the consummate cheat but never both together.

Is this a common thing? Frustrated me more than usual... Oh and then over beers after the round I got to hear all about his 1.7 index.

Guy sounds like an egotist. It seems like his rules and etiquette knowledge are more used to show off how much he knows about the game than anything else. His vanity-cap reflects that as well.

Maybe it's a personality thing here but I don't understand those of you who bring up cheaters and seem reluctant to call them out. Golf is a game with rules. If you were playing chess with him and he moved a pawn 4 spaces...do you just sit there and fume to yourselves? What the hell is going on with you guys? Call them out!

My question is why? If I don't know the guy and we're not playing in a tournament or competition of any sort, why should I care how someone else is playing the game?

If I catch someone doing something they might not realize is a rules infraction, I'll let them know about it, but if they're foot wedging and improving their lie they know they're cheating so there's no point in telling them they're breaking the rules. If they need to do it to enjoy the game better, so be it. I'm not going to ruin a round of golf by making interactions with my partners uncomfortable for no good reason.

[Vinsk]

Guy sounds like an egotist. It seems like his rules and etiquette knowledge are more used to show off how much he knows about the game than anything else. His vanity-cap reflects that as well. My question is why? If I don't know the guy and we're not playing in a tournament or competition of any sort, why should I care how someone else is playing the game? If I catch someone doing something they might not realize is a rules infraction, I'll let them know about it, but if they're foot wedging and improving their lie they know they're cheating so there's no point in telling them they're breaking the rules. If they need to do it to enjoy the game better, so be it. I'm not going to ruin a round of golf by making interactions with my partners uncomfortable for no good reason.

Yeah I agree. I'm referring to the posts I've read where they either know the guy, scores are being posted for hcp, or they're at the 19th hole talking about the round and the dude is going about his score....

[billchao]

Yeah I agree. I'm referring to the posts I've read where they either know the guy, scores are being posted for hcp, or they're at the 19th hole talking about the round and the dude is going about his score....

Yea, that's different. If I'm friends with the guy, I'll definitely call him out on it. If he takes offense to that then **** him.

[Vinsk]

Yea, that's different. If I'm friends with the guy, I'll definitely call him out on it. If he takes offense to that then **** him.

Lol! Now yer talkin' !