Incident on the green

[noob]

Hi all,

I had an "incident" on last weekend and would like to share with you.

It was a relatively slow day on the course. I never have problems with new players as I'm not a good player anyway. Further more I was playing with my brother who started a few months ago and I'm still teaching him a lot of thing about the game. We were taking our time because we know the 2 ball ahead of us was slowed by the 4 ball before them. In my mind we were definitely NOT rushing them.

It was a par 5, 515 yard. We tee'ed off after the fairway was clear (by that I mean I had no sight of the 2 ball ahead of me on the fairway where I'm trying to drive to) My driver found the right side rough. I helped my brother located his ball which took a bit of time. He hit his 2nd shot before I started walking toward my ball. By saying this I mean I definitely did not rush to hit my 2nd shot. My ball had a good lie but it was a blind shot and I could not see the green. So I had to walk about 30 yards forward, up a steep hill to catch sight of the flag and the green. I could not see anyone on the green. My trusting Bushnell told me it was 210yard out. Plus the distance I walked forward, plus the slope, so I figure it was about 240 yard to the flag. I was playing off of 24, so I mean... I honestly had about 2% hope that I can reach that with my 3 wood. So I went back down, trying to remember the direction. And hit my shot. It was a solid hit and the ball went roughly where I wanted it to go. My brother was down on the fairway and told me that he heard the guy ahead of us yelling even though he wasn't sure what it was.

When we walked up to the green, we can see the 2 ball walking off the green, one was making her way to the next tee but the man was clearly agitated and was walking toward us. I opened with "I'm so sorry, I had no idea, this is the first time I play this course." But regardless, he TOSSED MY BALL AT MY FEET, raised his voice and said "slow the heck down, we were keeping up with the group in front.. I was putting!!! you almost hit us at the last par 4 too..." I said "I'm sorry" one more time but at that point I was quite mad myself. Now the last par 4 was a 311 yard par 4, I waited until I was sure they were on the green before I hit my tee shot. It landed (laser told me) 24yard from the flag. I did not contest what he was saying because I know it's true. But at the same time I had no idea what the hell was going on and what else I could have reasonably done. I felt wronged that he picked my ball up like that so I assumed I got on in 2. And because I had no idea where my ball landed I wrote it off as a par. It was the best round I've played this year. I was 11 over with 5 consecutive pars in the back 9 up to that point. After that I went double, double, bogey, bogey for 17 over total. It was still the first time ever I broke 90, but the excitement got dampened by a lot because I did  not get to see my eagle putt...

My question to you is, what else could you have done? Also is it justified for him to pick my ball up like that? Is there any chance, even remotely, that my ball actually went in for an albatross but he picked it up anyway? :(

Best regards,

Luan

[krupa]

It sounds like the only thing you could have done was have your brother watching the green.  Then he could have waved you off when he saw the group in front.

This was the second time you hit into/near him.  Getting hit by a flying golf ball is going to hurt just as much if it was an accident or intentional.  If it were me, I would have put your ball in my pocket and walked away.

[irishmike27]

It's tough to accurately assess without having been there. It does however read like he was justified in feeling like you were rushing him. On the short par 4 you referred to, probably would have been best to wait until they cleared the green-especially if you're not in a hurry-ending up 24 yards from the flag while they are putting is pretty close. As far as how he reacted, it certainly could have been worse. Nobody likes being hit into. Too bad it put a damper on your best round, but next time you are in a similar situation-as long as you aren't backing up the course-give the group in front some space.

[mcanadiens]

Every now and then, you lose sight of the group in front of you and make the mistake of thinking they are gone. Even on courses I'm familiar with, I've made that mistake. Someone is trying to hit out of a bush or an adjacent fairway. You start your swing and then, bang, there they are. Obviously, you want to take care, but most rational, experienced golfers will recognize these things happen and accept your apology. When you get someone who doesn't, you just have to put it behind you as quick as possible. Try not to let it ruin your day out.

[jcjim]

Sorry but whatever the circumstances you hit up on another golfer, that is a no no period. Whether the guy should have picked up the ball isn't material it obviously hit the green with people on the green...

When I first started playing. I hit my tee shot on to the side of a hill about 240 out from the green. It was a fairly steep hill with me above the ball, there were 3 people on the green. Took a 5 wood knowing I could never make it to the green, well I hit the greatest shot I ever hit and it rolled up on the green in the middle of these people putting. It took me a couple holes to catch up and I did a lot of apologizing. The guys were a bit short but then I asked if they were going to be at the 19 hole  I'd like to buy them a beer. They then decided I really was sorry and were fine about it. The one guy said when the ball rolled up I looked back and saw you on  the side of that hill with your arms up and I really couldn't believe you could have hit it that far. I never ever did that again and that was back when we played persimmon woods. 240 off the side hill lie and I'm above the ball. I couldn't do that again if I hit a thousand balls. I was a relatively new golfer.

[rcwkent]

He was wrong in picking up your ball.

But when you were on the hill 210 yards out and saw an empty green,

where did you think the twoball was? Already finished the par 5?, with a fourball in front

of them?

We have all unintentionally hit into players or not yelled fore cuz we didnt see anyone.

But I think you should be more careful and considerate.

But its just a lesson learned.

[Todd Ruggere]

I'm sure at most the ball was barely rolling up to the guys feel. I think he overreated.

[Jeremie Boop]

  krupa said:

It sounds like the only thing you could have done was have your brother watching the green.  Then he could have waved you off when he saw the group in front.

This was the second time you hit into/near him.  Getting hit by a flying golf ball is going to hurt just as much if it was an accident or intentional.  If it were me, I would have put your ball in my pocket and walked away.

  rcwkent said:

He was wrong in picking up your ball.

But when you were on the hill 210 yards out and saw an empty green,

where did you think the twoball was? Already finished the par 5?, with a fourball in front

of them?

We have all unintentionally hit into players or not yelled fore cuz we didnt see anyone.

But I think you should be more careful and considerate.

But its just a lesson learned.

I think you are both a bit off here.

First, krupa, a ball that stops 20+ yards away is not "near or into" the group ahead. It's unreasonable to expect people to not tee off on a par 4 that they can't reach because they may get within 30 yards of the green. I do agree that it's always best to have someone watching when you hit a blind shot, especially if there's a chance that someone may still be ahead of you.

Second, rcwkent, with the explanation of what went on before he even hit his shot it's entirely possible that he did think enough time had passed that the twosome in front had finished the hole. Let alone the fact that he didn't believe he had any chance of making the green from where he was. Given the fact that the guy thought he was "almost hit" when the ball was about 24 yards away on a previous hole, it's possible the ball was nowhere near hitting them and just rolled up onto the green.

This, of course, is taking what the OP said as the truth of what happened.

[David in FL]

Once you realized that you had inadvertently hit into them, you should have rushed forward to apologize, which it sounds as if you did. He should not have touched your ball under ANY circumstances. Escalating an honest mistake is how things get out of control quickly... It's worth noting, that as you're teaching your brother, etiquette should be one of the first, and on-going lessons. How to judge when it's safe to play your next shot is one thing to consider....as is how to interact appropriately with the other players on a crowded course. Chalk this one up to a mistake on both sides. [quote name="krupa" url="/t/84572/incident-on-the-green#post_1202985"] If it were me, I would have put your ball in my pocket and walked away. [/quote] And this, boys and girls, is how fights between otherwise reasonable people, who share a common interest, start....

[krupa]

  Jeremie Boop said:

First, krupa, a ball that stops 20+ yards away is not "near or into" the group ahead. It's unreasonable to expect people to not tee off on a par 4 that they can't reach because they may get within 30 yards of the green. I do agree that it's always best to have someone watching when you hit a blind shot, especially if there's a chance that someone may still be ahead of you.

That's true.  However, it's close enough that after the second event, I could see someone feeling like he was getting pushed by the people behind him.

I admit that I've had enough balls drop close enough to me without any warnings or apologies that I'm pretty touchy about this subject.

[Jeremie Boop]

  David in FL said:

Once you realized that you had inadvertently hit into them, you should have rushed forward to apologize, which it sounds as if you did. He should not have touched your ball under ANY circumstances. Escalating an honest mistake is how things get out of control quickly...

It's worth noting, that as you're teaching your brother, etiquette should be one of the first, and on-going lessons. How to judge when it's safe to play your next shot is one thing to consider....as is how to interact appropriately with the other players on a crowded course. Chalk this one up to a mistake on both sides.

And this, boys and girls, is how fights between otherwise reasonable people, who share a common interest, start....

I feel like, in most situations, if someone saw the OP waiting to hit a shot from in the rough 240 out at his handicap they'd probably say he was being delusional and should just hit. Considering he thought he had next to no chance making it it's hard to fault him. Especially since he did try to apologize right away.

[RussUK]

6 of one and half a dozen of the other as the saying goes. Going by the post there was no malice at all intended so the other player did seem to over react and he had no right to move your ball. Yes, speak to you in a civil manner about what happened but dont touch another players ball.

It can be a little disconcerting to see a golf ball land near you when you arent expecting it. If in doubt, chicken out. If you think they may be on/near the green, just hold on a little and check. I often give the thumbs up to check we are ok to play on and get the same in reply or thumbs down if not.

I have had the displeasure of having a complete moron play his tee shot on a par 3 while i was lining a putt. As you can imagine i was a little annoyed and when i told him how dangerous he was being his reply was simply "well play faster then", despite my 2 ball playing pretty quick already. We waved him through and advised him to "go forth and multiply" . The confusion on his face was a picture and i would have loved to see the exprexxion when he worked out what we meant!

[dkolo]

These things happen. Apologize profusely and get on with your life. If he doesn't, it sucks to be him.

The one time I really hit into someone was on a dogleg hole with bunkering and trees blocking the corner, but definitely one you can go over. I saw the group ahead walk up to the green, waited another two minutes to be sure, and I hit over the corner. As the ball is in the air, I see a head peeking out over a bunker and I start screaming FORE. I go up to the group ahead and apologize a ton. Apparently the guy's wife went back to rehit her ball. Nothing you can really do in a case like that. They were super nice and invited me to play with them the rest of the round because they were a two and I was a single, which I obliged. Very pleasant folks. That's the kind of people you usually encounter. Sometimes you get a hot head and you just pacify him and then ignore him.

[krupa]

  David in FL said:

Once you realized that you had inadvertently hit into them, you should have rushed forward to apologize, which it sounds as if you did. He should not have touched your ball under ANY circumstances. Escalating an honest mistake is how things get out of control quickly...

It's worth noting, that as you're teaching your brother, etiquette should be one of the first, and on-going lessons. How to judge when it's safe to play your next shot is one thing to consider....as is how to interact appropriately with the other players on a crowded course. Chalk this one up to a mistake on both sides.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krupa

If it were me, I would have put your ball in my pocket and walked away.

And this, boys and girls, is how fights between otherwise reasonable people, who share a common interest, start....

With the exception of the guy who picked up the ball, no one knows where it actually landed.  I assumed, because the guy picked up the ball, that it was pretty damn close to him or his partner.  So yeah, in that case, I would walk off with the ball or -- if not walk off with it -- bat it into the rough.  I've had enough close calls with no "fore" or apology, that I've taken a dick-ish attitude to balls landing close to me.  It's one of the few times where I take that attitude.

[Lihu]

Don't hit into other people, no chance it was an albatross. I've been in similar situations and didn't give a crap about my ball even if they took it. . .

[Elmer]

  noob said:

.... you almost hit us at the last par 4 too..." I said "I'm sorry" one more time but at that point I was quite mad myself. Now the last par 4 was a 311 yard par 4, I waited until I was sure they were on the green before I hit my tee shot. It landed (laser told me) 24yard from the flag. I did not contest what he was saying because I know it's true. .

Almost hitting someone is different that hitting someone?

unless they count almost birdies as birdies?

Landing a ball 30 yards away on a drive-able par 4 should be expected.

If you are at your 2nd shot on a par 5, the group ahead of you should be on the green. If not they are playing slow.

I would have told them, "I am sorry but I saw an open green and went for it"

"you keep pace or you get hit"!

I should mention that I am very patient and I wait for people to clear greens and fairway, because I can be long.

So If I see the fairway or green is open and you walk out of the woods, not my fault.

[Lihu]

  Elmer said:

[QUOTE name="noob" url="/t/84572/incident-on-the-green#post_1202982"]   .... you almost hit us at the last par 4 too. .." I said "I'm sorry" one more time but at that point I was quite mad myself. Now the last par 4 was a 311 yard par 4, I waited until I was sure they were on the green before I hit my tee shot. It landed (laser told me) 24yard from the flag. I did not contest what he was saying because I know it's true. . [/QUOTE] I would have told them, "I am sorry but I saw an open green and went for it" "you keep pace or you get hit"! I should mention that I am very patient and I wait for people to clear greens and fairway, because I can be long. So If I see the fairway or green is open and you walk out of the woods, not my fault.

So, how many times have you been in a fight on the golf course? :-O

[Fourputt]

Just one comment - blind shots require extra care and vigilance on the part of the player to assure that the group ahead has truly cleared the area.  That means either posting one of your group where he can see and let you know that they have moved on, or less desirable, simply waiting an extra minute after you are sure to be doubly certain that they are gone.  Even then it can happen, but you have a clear conscience if it still occurs after you have taken every precaution to avoid it.

I hit into the group in front of me this year.  We had been fairly close behind them the entire round.  It was similar to the OP's scenario with a walking twosome following foursomes on a full course, then my threesome following them.  Our case was not a blind shot, but on the previous hole we had some issues and lost some time, so we expected to be a bit behind when we came to the next tee.  There was nobody in sight, no bags, nothing at all visible as far as we could see around the dogleg.  I teed my ball, went through my routine and just as I connected with the ball, they came out from behind a spruce tree and my ball landed less than 5 yards from them.  I did yell "FORE!", but they were still upset despite my apology and explanation.  They seemed to think that I was supposed to have x-ray vision or something.  I've had other near misses on that course due to the many blue spruce trees which can completely conceal not only a golfer but an entire riding cart, but with careful looking you can usually spot some movement or some hint that someone is back there.  When the whole bunch in front of you is hidden behind the trees, how can one not think that the hole is open?  Especially when you know that you had a delay on the previous hole and expected to have to close the gap.

A golf course is an inherently hazardous place.  Sometimes even after careful vigilance, you can hit into another party.  There are cases where you have no way of knowing that you have done so, and no known reason to yell fore, and anyone stepping on a course should be aware that this can happen.  No action should be taken unless the act is blatant, or is repeated.  Accept the apology which should be forthcoming with good grace.  Messing with another player's ball is unnecessary.

  Elmer said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by noob

.... you almost hit us at the last par 4 too..." I said "I'm sorry" one more time but at that point I was quite mad myself. Now the last par 4 was a 311 yard par 4, I waited until I was sure they were on the green before I hit my tee shot. It landed (laser told me) 24yard from the flag. I did not contest what he was saying because I know it's true. .

Almost hitting someone is different that hitting someone?

unless they count almost birdies as birdies?

Landing a ball 30 yards away on a drive-able par 4 should be expected.

If you are at your 2nd shot on a par 5, the group ahead of you should be on the green. If not they are playing slow.

I would have told them, "I am sorry but I saw an open green and went for it"

"you keep pace or you get hit"!

I should mention that I am very patient and I wait for people to clear greens and fairway, because I can be long.

So If I see the fairway or green is open and you walk out of the woods, not my fault.

How do you know where the ball landed?  It ended up 24 yards from the hole, but may have rolled an additional 30 yards to get there, meaning that he never even came close to hitting into them.  I'm not going to wait for the green to clear on a 300 yard hole when I know that my best imaginable carry downhill, downwind is about 250, and that might be a bit fanciful.