What Would Jack Nicklaus Shoot if.....

[mvmac]

If you put his mind into the body of a golfer who can't break 100? 

First try, golfer gets a warm up bucket before the round.

Let's say the golfer typically shoots between 105-110, hits 1 green in regulation every couple of rounds, can hit his driver 190 yards off the tee and doesn't have any physical issues or disabilities (other than a bad golf swing).

Jack's brain doesn't transfer Jack's swing to the hacker's body. So the question basically comes down to: what would Jack shoot if he only hit it 190 off the tee, missed every green, hit a few OB, hit plenty of fat and thin shots.

Inspired by this post from @iacas 

[SavvySwede]

If you put his mind into the body of a golfer who can't break 100?

Let's say the golfer typically shoots between 105-110, hits 1 green in regulation every couple of rounds and can hit his driver 230 yards off the tee.

Inspired by this post from @iacas 

 

I don't think any of that stuff is relevant if we're talking about a Freaky Friday type of situation. Muscle memory is all in the brain so Jack would be scratch as long as the body could produce enough swing speed and be flexible enough to get into some decent swing positions.

Edited October 27, 2015 by SavvySwede

[nevets88]

Well, if the theory about myelin and nerve fibers is correct, all the muscle memory stuff is stored mostly in the body, not the mind, so none of Nicklaus's great ability, the chunking, is transferred to amateur. Better decision by Nicklaus might save 5 strokes, best case? So 100-105 vs 105-110.

[Club Rat]

I voted Lower, simply because it's all about between the ears, so I've been told.

But realistically, with Jack's knowledge of the game, most anyone would soon figure out how to manage their swing along with the skills necessary to play at a better level.

Players who have difficulty breaking the century mark, never seem to grasp necessary changes "to change the dang picture", a phrase which many have heard around here lately.

Club Rat

[Lihu]

Voted lower. If you put his 30 year old body and mind into a bogey golfer, he would still be a pro and a long one at that.

[saevel25]

I voted the same. A guy who shoots near 100 is so bad that no mental game can save them. The only chance is if some wisdom of Jack Nicklaus was able to convince them that they suck enough to actually commit to meaningful practice. On the course, there is no chance they would score better. The swing is just that bad in my opinion. 

[bm85]

Crazy post.

I'm under the belief that all of his knowledge on how to manipulate the body in a way to hit desirable golf shots carries over.

Put a hacker in Jacks body...still a hacker.
Put Jack in a hackers body...still, well...maybe a GOAT, but definitely a guy who can break 80.

 

[nevets88]

If the amateur had the same exact body Nicklaus had when the mind transfer was done and you gave Frankenjack some time to practice, now we're talking. 

[natureboy]

I don't think any of that stuff is relevant if we're talking about a Freaky Friday type of situation. Muscle memory is all in the brain so Jack would be scratch as long as the body could produce enough swing speed and be flexible enough to get into some decent swing positions.

Well, if the theory about myelin and nerve fibers is correct, all the muscle memory stuff is stored mostly in the body, not the mind, so none of Nicklaus's great ability, the chunking, is transferred to amateur. Better decision by Nicklaus might save 5 strokes, best case? So 100-105 vs 105-110.

I would expect the swing resides somewhere between these two posts. Knowledge of the setup and swing is in the brain, but there are many motion sub-routines and 'feels' in the ganglia / spinal cord. Depends a great deal on the body you gave him too.

If you gave him time to practice with the new body, I would expect him to play to near scratch because of his long game technique knowledge. If he couldn't train the new body and had to play immediately, not sure what it would be, but expect it would be at least 90 due to knowing how to manage what he's got and probably down to 80.

On the other hand, if the body you gave him was a really old guy who couldn't hit more than 100 yards, but had a deadly short game, his technique knowledge could only coax so many extra yards out of that body. Plus his personal technique was built completely around his own body so his feels of where things should be happening in his swing would be all wrong / out of sync. But I expect he could adjust pretty well on the fly. Did Jack ever play a round on LSD? That might be close to a brain transplant experience.

[Patch]

Lower would be my guess. Jack's mental game would save a bad swinger a few strokes. Just mentally knowing how to read greens would save strokes.

[Big Lex]

On his first try, or after having time to practice?

[Lihu]

On his first try, or after having time to practice?

That's an interesting question. Some researchers have found that our physical brains are much like digital computers. If this is the case, the software (SW) is our mind and soul. If you also include the motor skills as part of his "mental" image, then theoretically his download should be able to act accordingly? Just like a computer can immediately perform the programmed function as soon as SW is loaded?

[mvmac]

On his first try, or after having time to practice?

First try. Adding it to the OP.

He gets to hit some balls and warm up 

But the dude isn't breaking 80....NO WAY.

[iacas]

I don't think any of that stuff is relevant if we're talking about a Freaky Friday type of situation. Muscle memory is all in the brain so Jack would be scratch as long as the body could produce enough swing speed and be flexible enough to get into some decent swing positions.

Muscle memory is not all in the brain. Plus, the "Golfer Body" is entirely different.

I voted Lower, simply because it's all about between the ears, so I've been told.

No way.

On his first try, or after having time to practice?

The first try. If you gave the guy 30 years to practice he might be good.

---

This question's a no-brainer. He'll save a few strokes, and that's about it. If he shot in the low 100s, he will shoot in the high 90s. If he shot in the 110 range, he's still not breaking 100 regularly.

"Jack Brain" can tell the guy "okay, let's hit a soft 6-iron to the center of the green…" and then "Golfer Body" fats it 20 yards forward into the pond.

The body needs to be trained and trained extensively. Just making better decisions isn't going to have a huge impact unless the body can actually do what the brain tells it to do.

So, yes, improving at one skill (GamePlanning is SV④ after all ) can save the guy a good number of strokes. But he's not shooting 74 any time soon.

[mvmac]

Maybe this wasn't clear but the point of the post is to illustrate how relatively unimportant the mental game is to scoring when compared to full swing skills/mechanics. Jack's brain can't "override" all the bad swing habits the golfer has, all he can really do is make better decisions. Lots of great golfers started off playing bogey golf and had to train their bodies to develop good golf swings.

The question basically comes down to: what would Jack shoot if he only hit it 190 off the tee, missed every green, hit a few OB, hit plenty of fat and thin shots.

Well, if the theory about myelin and nerve fibers is correct, all the muscle memory stuff is stored mostly in the body, not the mind, so none of Nicklaus's great ability, the chunking, is transferred to amateur. Better decision by Nicklaus might save 5 strokes, best case? So 100-105 vs 105-110.

Yep, agree with this.

[JP golf]

How can you separate game planning with the mental game?  Setting your game plan making the right type of shot selection, having an idea where you miss and playing for it is all part of the mental game in my opinion.  Are you chipping that shot or putting it?  Going at the pin or missing at the pin? Are you taking OB out of play?  Do you realize how that lie is going to affect your shot?  Do you go through a consistent pre-shot routine and check alignment?  Do you have a swing thought or too many? Do you know how you need to try hit that bunker shot?  You might have a faulty swing mechanic because you don't know how your supposed to try to hit that shot nor do you have the mental game to understand how to take that water out of play.

Jack shoots in the 90's.  I don't think he shoots 70's though that's for sure.  I think he saves 7-10 shots.  Knowledge of concepts and strategy is huge!

The question basically comes down to: what would Jack shoot if he only hit it 190 off the tee, missed every green, hit a few OB, hit plenty of fat and thin shots.

I do not agree with this.  I don't think it's fair to say that he would still hit a few OB or miss every green.  Maybe this golfer didn't know his big miss is way right and there is plenty of room left to take OB out of play.  Maybe the golfer had been going at every pin or missed 75% of the greens to the right but never realized it.  By simply understanding his swing better and his misses (mental game) he could possibly hit a few more greens avoid a "few" OB shots...  choose to leave the pin in, putt rather than chip etc....    A golfer not breaking 100 has a lot of room for improvement both in the mental game side and the physical side.  Without actually changing swing mechanics but only changing the choices he makes and understanding his misses he can improve more than 5 shots in my opinion.

and DAMN IT...  The Mets just lost!

Edited October 28, 2015 by JP golf

[LagShaft]

I'm sayin' 44 the first nine and 39 the second nine if the guys body can swing one club well I think Jack is breaking 90 pretty easily.  

and DAMN IT...  The Mets just lost!

That was a great game!  Take the Crown Royals!!!

Edited October 28, 2015 by LagShaft

[boogielicious]

I voted the same. A guy who shoots near 100 is so bad that no mental game can save them. The only chance is if some wisdom of Jack Nicklaus was able to convince them that they suck enough to actually commit to meaningful practice. On the course, there is no chance they would score better. The swing is just that bad in my opinion. 

Same vote for me.

First of all, Jack's brain would freak after the first fat shot.

"Why the F*** did you do that?!?!"

"Just hit the damn ball you stupid body!"

But after collecting himself, even the better decision making won't help that much because you can't predict where and how far the ball with go with inconsistent contact and swing faults. The decision may be correct, but the result won't be.