What Would a PGA Tour Player Shoot at Your Home Course?

[DennisMiller]

The course record, set by an Assistant Pro a few years ago is 62 and he admitted it was a day when he simply caught lightning in a bottle.

Even from the back tees, the course is only about 6400 yards long. Thus, I'd suspect a tour pro would drive about 6 of the par 4 holes and the second shot on the others would probably be a flip wedge. They would definitely hit all the par 5 holes in 2. Only 1 of the par 3 holes approaches 200 yards from the back tee and has a small green. Another that's about 190 has a huge green. The 2 others are no longer than 160 from the back.

They would tear it up so much they'd probably get bored.

[Darkfrog]

I think a tour player could score in the mid 50s on my normal course (assume we're talking about PGA tour)

The course is a par 70 (two par 5s) and only 6300 yards from the longest tees. The angles/positioning and somewhat tight fairways present challenges to amateur players, but tour players are so good I doubt they would have any trouble with these elements. Expert shot shaping is a huge advantage at this course.

Thinking about it, tour player distance probably takes most of these architectural challenges out of play anyways. For example, one par 4 has a creek that crosses the fairway at about 250 yards, so the choice is to carry the creek and land on the apron in front of the green (probably 275 yards), or lay up. Pretty sure this isn't much of an issue for even the shortest tour players.

Many of the par 4 holes are reachable or nearly reachable from the tee for tour distances, and the longest par 5 is just a touch over 500 yards so they're both easily reachable in 2, and would probably just be a mid iron into the green.

Anything worse than a -10 would surprise me.

[leftybutnotPM]

15 hours ago, dagolfer18 said:

My home course would be very short for a pro at 6442 yards, but they couldn’t hit driver on every hole. For example, our first hole is a dogleg left par-4 that’s about 200 to the corner (from back tee) and about 250 to the far tree line. Then our eighth hole is another dogleg left par-4, this time about 220 to the runout, but really gutsy players could hit a nice high shot over the trees. 

In all likelihood, they'd just walk up and hit a 3 wood 80 metres further than you dreamed they'd hit a driver and straight over the top of the trees as if they weren't even there.

Edited November 5, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[SG11118]

If the intent of the vote is an average tour pro (and not the former PGA pros on the O.P.), I'd vote in the 65-70 range.  

My course is a par 72, but if there was an average field PGA tournament at my course, they'd probably play it as a 6800+ yard par 70 with both of the par 5s on the front converted to par 4s and slightly more difficult than average pin placements.  This are how I would envision the field as a whole would score relative to par on each of the holes 1 +0.25, 2 +0.10, 3 -0.10, 4 -0.05, 5 +0.05, 6 -0.25, 7 +0.05, 8 -0.15, 9 +0.10, 10 -0.35, 11 +0.10, 12 -0.5, 13 -0.2, 14 -0.1, 15 0.0, 16 -0.5, 17 -0.35, 18 -0.1 = -2 strokes below the par of 70.  If there were 420 rounds for the field for the event, I'm guessing the field as a whole would pop several scores in the 59-61 range for the week, but there would also be several scores in the 74-77 range.

I'd guess on an average day, the course would play a stroke or two easier than that for a tour pro or somewhere around 66-67 for an expected score.

[dagolfer18]

2 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

In all likelihood, they'd just walk up and hit a 3 wood 80 metres further than you dreamed they'd hit a driver and straight over the top of the trees as if they weren't even there.

Nope. Still too high. Here’s a pic of the first tee.

This picture was taken from the white tees, but it really isn’t too much different from the blues.

[phan52]

Our course record is 63, shared by Ray Floyd, Gary Player and Tom Kite. That was back in the day when we tipped out at around 6600. It now is stretched to 6960 and has better hard, fast fairways, better conditioned rough and much faster greens. I don't know that today's players would do any better unless they played it a lot. On first sight, maybe 65.

[iacas]

On 11/4/2019 at 9:59 PM, dagolfer18 said:

My home course would be very short for a pro at 6442 yards, but they couldn’t hit driver on every hole. For example, our first hole is a dogleg left par-4 that’s about 200 to the corner (from back tee) and about 250 to the far tree line. Then our eighth hole is another dogleg left par-4, this time about 220 to the runout, but really gutsy players could hit a nice high shot over the trees. If I had to guess, I’d say a pro would shoot about a 28 or 29 for nine holes on my course, doesn’t matter which, even though the back is supposed to be harder than the front. 

Could. Probably wouldn’t.

On 11/5/2019 at 9:22 AM, DennisMiller said:

The course record, set by an Assistant Pro a few years ago is 62 and he admitted it was a day when he simply caught lightning in a bottle.

Even from the back tees, the course is only about 6400 yards long. Thus, I'd suspect a tour pro would drive about 6 of the par 4 holes and the second shot on the others would probably be a flip wedge. They would definitely hit all the par 5 holes in 2. Only 1 of the par 3 holes approaches 200 yards from the back tee and has a small green. Another that's about 190 has a huge green. The 2 others are no longer than 160 from the back.

They would tear it up so much they'd probably get bored.

Unlikely.

On 11/5/2019 at 12:52 PM, Darkfrog said:

I think a tour player could score in the mid 50s on my normal course (assume we're talking about PGA tour)

The course is a par 70 (two par 5s) and only 6300 yards from the longest tees. The angles/positioning and somewhat tight fairways present challenges to amateur players, but tour players are so good I doubt they would have any trouble with these elements. Expert shot shaping is a huge advantage at this course.

Thinking about it, tour player distance probably takes most of these architectural challenges out of play anyways. For example, one par 4 has a creek that crosses the fairway at about 250 yards, so the choice is to carry the creek and land on the apron in front of the green (probably 275 yards), or lay up. Pretty sure this isn't much of an issue for even the shortest tour players.

Many of the par 4 holes are reachable or nearly reachable from the tee for tour distances, and the longest par 5 is just a touch over 500 yards so they're both easily reachable in 2, and would probably just be a mid iron into the green.

Anything worse than a -10 would surprise me.

Nah.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

I guarantee the tour pro would shoot under 60 at my "home course". How do I know this? Well, currently what I'm using as a "Home course" is only 9 holes. 

Okay, okay, I understand the spirit of the question. Let's assume the tour pro plays my "home course" twice to make it 18 holes. Playing the "tips"  twice would make it only about 6600 yards; That's not long by any standard. The par 3's are really short by a tour players standard. 130 and 150 yards respectively. They are both over water, but the water really only comes into play if you are 25 yards short on your tee-shot (not common for a tour pro). The par 4's average 400 yards. The par 5's are 530 and 490 respectively. 

I'm going to guess the "average" tour pro will make 3 birdies and possibly an eagle with no bogies each time through. So, I'll say the "average" tour pro shoots 8 to 10 under. 

So my guess is the "average" tour pro averages about a 63 

I also guess if they played it with a large enough sample size they may shoot a poorly as 70 (2 under, I don't think there are enough bogies on the course for a tour pro to actually shoot over par.) The tour pro is also likely to have a really strong round where they may shoot a 56 or a 57 or something like that. 

In truth I'm really not sure. None of the par 4's are really reachable, and its normally pretty windy out there. I'm just guessing here. I often hear about this "Vison 54" thing. I guess that might be possible on this course. 

[dagolfer18]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Could. Probably wouldn’t.

Unlikely.

Nah.

 

When you said “Could, probably wouldn’t”, what did you mean? Score, or the shots I mentioned?

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, dagolfer18 said:

When you said “Could, probably wouldn’t”, what did you mean? Score, or the shots I mentioned?

The score.

They could shoot that low. They probably wouldn't.

Golf is hard.®

The hole is still only 4.25" large, and hitting it to 8' is only going to get a birdie 50% of the time (less, actually, given the condition of non-PGA Tour course greens).

PGA Tour players are not going out and regularly shooting 62s and stuff at most courses.

[Buckeyebowman]

Well, unless it was at the old Bob Hope Desert Classic! Here's something to consider. I've played a ton of golf at Mill Creek Park GC, which is an old Donald Ross design dating back to the late 1920's. It's not that easy. 

But, I go out and watch the Youngstown State U women's golf team's invitational every September since I ran into it by accident 3 years ago. Some of these ladies can really golf their ball! 2 years ago, one of the YSU golfers, shot a 68 the first day, and a 64 the next, against a par of 72! This was a 20 year old woman! Imagine what a Tour pro could do! 

[cartertheraptor]

9, hole in one on every hole. 

[iacas]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:24 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

Well, unless it was at the old Bob Hope Desert Classic! Here's something to consider. I've played a ton of golf at Mill Creek Park GC, which is an old Donald Ross design dating back to the late 1920's. It's not that easy. 

But, I go out and watch the Youngstown State U women's golf team's invitational every September since I ran into it by accident 3 years ago. Some of these ladies can really golf their ball! 2 years ago, one of the YSU golfers, shot a 68 the first day, and a 64 the next, against a par of 72! This was a 20 year old woman! Imagine what a Tour pro could do! 

Not much better on average.

[DeadMan]

One thing to remember with this topic is that we're talking about an average PGA Tour pro. We're not talking about Rory, DJ, or Tiger. The average PGA Tour pro are golfers like Scott Brown, Jason Dufner, Johnson Wagner, Roberto Castro, or Chase Wright (these are all PGA Tour players who finished around 0 Total Strokes Gained last year). While those guys have the ability to shoot in the low 60s, they're not getting there all that often. Scott Brown's scoring average was 70.960 last year. He had 2 rounds below 65. 

PGA Tour players are extremely good, but they're not going out and shooting low 60s every round. 

[iacas]

The hole is still only 4.25”.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:30 AM, iacas said:

Not much better on average.

 

On 11/18/2019 at 10:48 AM, DeadMan said:

One thing to remember with this topic is that we're talking about an average PGA Tour pro. We're not talking about Rory, DJ, or Tiger. The average PGA Tour pro are golfers like Scott Brown, Jason Dufner, Johnson Wagner, Roberto Castro, or Chase Wright (these are all PGA Tour players who finished around 0 Total Strokes Gained last year). While those guys have the ability to shoot in the low 60s, they're not getting there all that often. Scott Brown's scoring average was 70.960 last year. He had 2 rounds below 65. 

PGA Tour players are extremely good, but they're not going out and shooting low 60s every round. 

Good points. I admit I had not considered the word "average".  I was thinking of the top guys! Considering that Mill Creek is only a little over 6,800 from the tips, that would take the Driver out of most pros hands. That brings accuracy into play. Especially on the North course with its small greens with lots of contour, you'd better be on the right side of the hole to have a chance, if they get the greens up to Tour speed. 

When we play there we usually bitch about how slow the greens are. But the place is a golf factory, and they have to accommodate the masses.