Is etiquette out the window?

[newtogolf]

I see a lot of laziness, especially in the sand traps.  Seems many golfers who wear spikeless shoes think the footprints they leave in the sand aren't a problem for the rest of us.  It was enough of a problem at my home course that they sent a memo out on the approved process for hitting balls out of the bunker and raking the bunker when done.   The club also added more rakes around each trap because people were too lazy to walk and pick up a rake.  

[Jeremie Boop]

8 minutes ago, krupa said:

I play a public course and see all these things and more.  Etiquette is a strange thing.  We know when someone else violates it but are not always aware when we break it.  We also frequently can't agree on what the rules even are.

One night, a couple years ago, I was playing as a single and caught up to another guy playing as a single.  In front of us was a twosome playing very slowly.  The guy (who had a cart) told me that he passed the twosome (who were walking) on the way to the first tee but they insisted that they get to play first because they paid first.  The guy explained that although his wife was in the cart, only he was playing and would be out of their way, etc., but the twosome was having none of that and threatened to call the clubhouse (who would have sided with the single, by the way.)  So the twosome set the pace that night.

While this guy was telling me the story, the twosome moved out of range.  He proceeds to hit his drive, say "well, have a good round" and drive off without inviting me to play with him.  I guess if he had to wait, I had to wait.

Was it open in front of the twosome and behind you? In these cases I'll jump ahead and play a few holes then eventually come back around and play the hole I skipped. That way I'm not sitting around waiting. I'll even do this if I'm walking depending on where I am in relation the hole ahead of the slow people. The only time this doesn't work out is if I'm playing behind a league. Unfortunately, the last two times I was behind a league the last group was so slow they ended up more than a full hole and a half out of position. Both times I literally ended up laying down on the ground while I waited for 10-15 minutes.

It seems pretty amazing that the guy complained about the people in front of him then didn't bother to invite you to play along. I always invite others to play along if they catch up to me due to having to wait.

[xcott]

I had a pair in front of me who complained about the slow 5some in front of them, then proceeded to not invite me as a single to join. Then after they were gone for a long time and I assumed they were on the green since I could see the whole playable area, I hit two balls. They promptly showed up as I'm walking down the fairway, run over one of my balls with their cart and keep looking for balls they hit in the fairway (nope that's mine), when they were who knows where for the last 5+ minutes.

I fix lots of ball marks, some courses are worse than others I think. I was playing with a guy i caught up with who made a huge ball mark on the green, then just kind of touched it with his putter, which did nothing. I was more annoyed at his crappy attempt than completely ignoring it.

[CarlSpackler]

Personal opinion is that a lot of etiquette died with the caddie. My ideal course would have at least a forecaddie with every group to rake bunkers and whatnot. I think people would behave better if an employee of the course was observing their behavior. Yes, I understand the cost of this etc. etc. etc. I'm just saying that would be my ideal course.

[Jeremie Boop]

Just now, CarlSpackler said:

Personal opinion is that a lot of etiquette died with the caddie. My ideal course would have at least a forecaddie with every group to rake bunkers and whatnot. I think people would behave better if an employee of the course was observing their behavior. Yes, I understand the cost of this etc. etc. etc. I'm just saying that would be my ideal course.

I've never had the pleasure of experiencing a round with a caddie/forecaddie. As you mention, cost.... The courses that provide those services are outside of my financial means, and as far as I know, well outside of my easy driving distance even if I could afford it. It does bother me when people don't even try to leave the course as they found it and extend the courtesies to others that they expect themselves. Truthfully though, I don't think this is limited to just golf courses. People in general just don't seem to follow the simple golden rule of treating others how you want to be treated.

[krupa]

43 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Was it open in front of the twosome and behind you? In these cases I'll jump ahead and play a few holes then eventually come back around and play the hole I skipped. That way I'm not sitting around waiting. I'll even do this if I'm walking depending on where I am in relation the hole ahead of the slow people. The only time this doesn't work out is if I'm playing behind a league. Unfortunately, the last two times I was behind a league the last group was so slow they ended up more than a full hole and a half out of position. Both times I literally ended up laying down on the ground while I waited for 10-15 minutes.

It seems pretty amazing that the guy complained about the people in front of him then didn't bother to invite you to play along. I always invite others to play along if they catch up to me due to having to wait.

I don't remember how busy the course was.  I feel like it was open in front of the twosome.  Where I play, people -- even singles -- rarely ask me to join them.  Maybe it's me.  I did have one single jump onto hole 10 as I was walking over from 9; he apologized and I asked him to join me. We played one hole and then on the 11th tee I strained my back and had to stop.

When waiting on groups in front of me, I usually just juggle golf balls.

[Grinde6]

Yes, etiquette has kind of died.  It happens all the time at my home course during league night even.  We play 3 man teams every Tuesday night against another 3 man team and we play different games every week.  We played against a team a couple weeks ago where a guy that has been a member at the course forever wasn't fixing his divots or ball marks on the green.  Finally I got so pissed off on the one hole I asked him if his sand/seed bottle was empty (if your not going to replace your divot, that's the least you can do).  And that was only on the 3rd hole...we got up to the green on the 4th hole in which he had a huge ball mark, he walked up and marked his ball and left the crater alone.  I ran back to the cart and grabbed an old ball mark fixer I had and tossed it to him and told him he could keep it since it didn't look like he had one. 

This type of thing frustrates the crap out of me!!!  If your going to disregard some of the "etiquette rules" please, please please don't disregard fixing divots and ball marks!!!!

end rant..

[Jeremie Boop]

2 minutes ago, krupa said:

I don't remember how busy the course was.  I feel like it was open in front of the twosome.  Where I play, people -- even singles -- rarely ask me to join them.  Maybe it's me.  I did have one single jump onto hole 10 as I was walking over from 9; he apologized and I asked him to join me. We played one hole and then on the 11th tee I strained my back and had to stop.

When waiting on groups in front of me, I usually just juggle golf balls.

I've had people balk at joining me when I offer to let them. Usually they are afraid I'm a lot better than them and don't want to feel embarrassed if they struggle. I assure them that I'm not that good and they tend to accept the invitation. Occasionally I'll have people refuse, but it's usually because it's a father and son playing who just want to enjoy some bonding time. Or a couple of guys who are doing enough drinking and listening to music that they don't mind the extra wait. I'm really really working on my patience when it comes to slow play. Since I'm planning on trying to join some tournaments and competitions in the future I know I'll be forced to deal with it and it's better to learn how to adjust to it now than while I'm trying to compete. Sometimes though, when a foursome all hit tee shots that don't even break 200 yards, then they wait to hit their approaches to the green from over 210 while all sitting in their carts by one person's ball, only to watch them take at least 2 more shots to get out of my landing area off the tee. Then watch them play another shot to get on the green and then everyone taking tour professional amounts of time to putt out. I don't think I'll EVER develop enough patience to deal with those people.

[Fourputt]

2 hours ago, RH31 said:

It is worse than it used to be. I belong to a private club and it's not uncommon to see;

divots not replaced....or  just dumping the mix in instead of replacing the turf

bunkers not properly raked

sand footprints on greens

golfers standing and/or moving in others peripheral vision while hitting

players not ready to hit when it's their turn

oddly enough, there isn't much of problem with repairing ball marks

I don't know if it's an educational thing or if people are just plain lazier

Of the items I put in bold:
1)  Using mix instead of turf in divots.  In the area where I live, the divot just dies anyway so replacing it is wasted effort.  I use sand/seed mix, and only rarely will I actually replace a divot, and only when I take an unusually large one.  Most of my divots don't have enough of the roots attached to survive anyway even if I didn't live in a semi-arid climate.
2)  I don't even know what you mean by sand footprints on greens.  In 40 years of golf I've never seen such a thing.  Sand on the green is a loose impediment and can be dealt with as needed.
3)  I stand well away from a player when he's swinging, but I don't worry about being in his peripheral vision.  If that bothers you, then you play in a very different environment than I do.  I don't move or talk when a player is swinging.  There is often someone still moving when I make my stroke on the tee, in or out of my vision, but that is because I am usually the first of my group to get there, so I just tee it up and go while they are still approaching the teeing area.

I don't think that etiquette has gotten any worse in the last few years than it was when I started playing back in the 70's.  Most of those I see who don't follow good etiquette practices are either beginners or casual twice a year golfers who mostly don't really understand the importance that etiquette plays in the game.  A lot of them have never played with anyone who would teach them those things. 

Then again there are a few jerks out there who simply don't care, and that can make it look worse than it really is.  I play with a lot of strangers when I walk on as a single, and most of them do take care of the more obvious things like raking bunkers.  Not making any effort to repair divots is probably the one I see most often.  

I even admit to not always fixing my own pitch marks, mostly because greens are so firm any more that half the time I cant find one, even though I know that I had to have made one.  The greens on my home course used to be soft enough that my ball would sometimes kick out a little divot when it landed (or even embed), but now I'm hard pressed to find even a small dent.  That is just due to a change in greens maintenance philosophy.

[xcott]

I'm always a bit perplexed at the divot replacement. If I take a beaverpelt, I'll put it back. But Typically I figure the divot will repair itself better if left alone, or with the mix if the course has it.  

[Joe92385]

Maybe it's just where I play, but I've found that more and more people are playing with music playing in their carts - which is fine, but only a small minority turn it off (or at least down) when they're near another group.  Doesn't really bother me personally, but the lack of common sense and etiquette still surprises me.

[DaveP043]

I'm pretty lucky, playing at a private club where most (not all) of the players are pretty respectful of the game and the other players.  On Sunday, however, I got to play one of the nicer daily-fee courses in the area, and was very pleasantly surprised.  Very few un-repaired ball marks, most divot holes filled, and a nice pace of play.  They did have a roving marshal, who at one time early on told us he had asked the group ahead to pick it up a little.  It wasn't really that slow, but he was on the ball, and we got done in just under 4 hours, pretty good for a Sunday morning.  The worst thing I saw were a number of unraked or poorly raked bunkers.  Fortunately, I missed all but one Bunker for the day.

[Fourputt]

43 minutes ago, Joe92385 said:

Maybe it's just where I play, but I've found that more and more people are playing with music playing in their carts - which is fine, but only a small minority turn it off (or at least down) when they're near another group.  Doesn't really bother me personally, but the lack of common sense and etiquette still surprises me.

This is probably my biggest recent pet peeve.  If I can hear your music it's too loud.  I wear hearing aids, and it still bugs the crap out of me.  I like music, I always have it on in my car when I"m alone or just with my wife, but even in my own car I turn it off when someone else is riding with me.  

Just because you like your music, that doesn't mean that I like it.  I don't even want to hear the music I do like when I'm on the golf course, so I damn sure don't want to hear music that I don't like, which is most of today's stuff. 

[xcott]

I will play music sometimes, but the only time I can hear it is if I'm within about 10 feet or less of my cart. The only way it will bleed into somone else's game is if I park the cart to walk to a green or ball and after that someone pulls up close to my cart. 

 

But I agree, loud music is very annoying.

[Gvel]

Like a cell phone, there's no room on a golf course for music. 

P.S. Not trying to make an enemy, and I hope you don't take it that way!  

[ghalfaire]

I am surprised this subject has drawn so much attention.  As I said in the earlier post it seems to me most all golfers seem to show proper etiquette.  There are, as noted in the posts, some who have little respect for others, the course, or the game and a few that are just ignorant.  But they are few and far between as I see it.  But for sure annoying when they show up or their damage shows up.  When I posted earlier I had forgotten cell phones. That's because they are forbidden in the groups I play with.  But if you need to be in touch for some reason the phone has to be on vibrate only and if you are going to talk pick up your ball and go where we can't hear you and you can rejoin the group when your conversation is over. 

[xcott]

I'm listening to music about 10% of the time, and I first ask my group and then it almost never is heard by other groups. I get the point of view that it has no place. Certainly cell phone etiquette is an issue everywhere including the golf course. Glance at a text, ok. step away for an important call, ok. But i know guys that will talk on a phone extensively and I find that to be way worse than any other breach mentioned.

I have a family and an important job too. I can wait for a few hours, so can you.

[stealthhwk]

I cant even get etiquette from the course. Theyll let anyone play the course. Today my group got stuck behind a threesome of old guys. 2 of them could barely walk and we saw them hit numerous shots, none of which went over 20 yards. Golf 20 yards at a time on a 6000 yard golf course!!! REALLY!? The more I play, the more this game is starting to get on my last nerve. >:(