straight slice

[cbrister]

Struggling mostly with a straight slice with nearly every club. Sometimes it's more of a fade, but a heavy fade regardless. From what I know about the ball flight laws, am I correct in assuming that if the ball starts straight, grip is ok? The slice is caused by not turning enough? I don't have a recent video....

 

[amoline]

A slice -- that is, a ball that starts right and curves further right -- means that your path is out-to-in (or "across" the ball) and your clubface angle is open to that path.

If your ball starts straight and curves right your clubface is square to your path, but your path is still out-to-in. 

So ultimately it is a path issue. What that path issue is, however, is tough to say without a swing video -- do you have a "my swing" thread?

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, cbrister said:

Struggling mostly with a straight slice with nearly every club. Sometimes it's more of a fade, but a heavy fade regardless. From what I know about the ball flight laws, am I correct in assuming that if the ball starts straight, grip is ok? The slice is caused by not turning enough? I don't have a recent video....

 

If the ball is starting straight then the face is pointing at the target and the path is well left of the face.

Start a swing thread or if you have one post updated swings. Check this out.

 

[Rainmaker]

FWIW - I think if most people who slice would just forget about the fact that they slice and work on their golf swing, instead . . they'd fix the slice faster.  That is to say . .the slice is a symptom of poor mechanics.  It's caused by the face being open to the path . .which can be caused by a variety of things.  Instead of worrying about why you slice (or top, or fat, or hook) . .work instead on improving your entire golf swing.  The 5 keys system here on the site gives you a way to do just that. 

If you rate yourself honestly on the 5 keys and start from there, you will be miles ahead vs worrying about particular kinds of misses.  A consistent slice does mean that you have a particular kind of (extremely common) swing fault - but the key to fixing it is holistic . ie . you're not going to just change your grip or something and stop slicing it.   

 

 

[Jcm288]

On 6/18/2016 at 9:26 PM, cbrister said:

Struggling mostly with a straight slice with nearly every club. Sometimes it's more of a fade, but a heavy fade regardless. From what I know about the ball flight laws, am I correct in assuming that if the ball starts straight, grip is ok? The slice is caused by not turning enough? I don't have a recent video....

 

This is my typical miss, and for me, is generally when I hang back a little too much causing my path to get too left too soon. But like mvmac said, try to get some video so we can get an idea of what you're doing.

[cbrister]

Phone won't let me upload video but here's an impact position pic I screenshot. I'll figure out how to upload the video this afternoon 

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, cbrister said:

Phone won't let me upload video but here's an impact position pic I screenshot. I'll figure out how to upload the video this afternoon 

Ok when you do, please start a thread here

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

[billchao]

1 hour ago, cbrister said:

Phone won't let me upload video but here's an impact position pic I screenshot. I'll figure out how to upload the video this afternoon 

Upload it onto youtube and then copy/paste the link in the text editor.

But as @mvmac said, please start a swing thread when you do.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/18/2016 at 11:22 PM, amoline said:

A slice -- that is, a ball that starts right and curves further right -- means that your path is out-to-in (or "across" the ball) and your clubface angle is open to that path.

If your ball starts straight and curves right your clubface is square to your path, but your path is still out-to-in. 

So ultimately it is a path issue. What that path issue is, however, is tough to say without a swing video -- do you have a "my swing" thread?

This is the most utter nonsense! And I am surprised, and chagrined, that others here didn't catch it!

If the clubface is square to your swing path, then the ball will travel along your swing path! It can't do anything else!

The only way the ball slices is if the clubface is open to your swing path! If you swing out to in with an open clubface, you will hit a pull fade or pull slice. Along the target line, straight fade or slice. In to out, push fade or slice.

And whether it's a fade or slice depends on how open to the swing path the clubhead is.

For the OP. Having not seen your swing, or grip, there's no way of really knowing. But, I'd like you to try an experiment. Take your left hand grip and dial it just a few degrees clockwise. In other words, "strengthen" it just a tad! Hit some balls this way and see what happens. If it goes haywire you can always take it back to where it was.

I'd be very interested to see what happens if you try this!

P.S. JUST YOUR LEFT HAND!

[boogielicious]

Below is a good thread that describes ball flight.

 

[Valleygolfer]

8 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

This is the most utter nonsense! And I am surprised, and chagrined, that others here didn't catch it!

If the clubface is square to your swing path, then the ball will travel along your swing path! It can't do anything else!

The only way the ball slices is if the clubface is open to your swing path! If you swing out to in with an open clubface, you will hit a pull fade or pull slice. Along the target line, straight fade or slice. In to out, push fade or slice.

And whether it's a fade or slice depends on how open to the swing path the clubhead is.

For the OP. Having not seen your swing, or grip, there's no way of really knowing. But, I'd like you to try an experiment. Take your left hand grip and dial it just a few degrees clockwise. In other words, "strengthen" it just a tad! Hit some balls this way and see what happens. If it goes haywire you can always take it back to where it was.

I'd be very interested to see what happens if you try this!

P.S. JUST YOUR LEFT HAND!

Op I suggest you don't listen to this guy.

[cbrister]

Turns out after hitting some balls, I was letting my right hand get over to the side of the club a bit too much. It was letting it open just enough to slice right at the end of the flight. I readjusted and the slice is no longer there. 

[iacas]

21 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

The only way the ball slices is if the clubface is open to your swing path! If you swing out to in with an open clubface, you will hit a pull fade or pull slice. Along the target line, straight fade or slice. In to out, push fade or slice.

@Buckeyebowman, not always (depending on what you mean by "open")… If 0° is the target line, and negative is left… please describe, with a driver, the following flights (for a right-handed golfer):

a) Clubface is -5°, path is -10°.

b) Clubface is 0°, path is -5°.

c) Clubface is 5°, path is 0°.

d) Clubface is 5°, path is -5°.

[Hardspoon]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 11:22 PM, amoline said:

If your ball starts straight and curves right your clubface is square to your path, but your path is still out-to-in. 

I think you mean "clubface is square to your target line".

21 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

If the clubface is square to your swing path, then the ball will travel along your swing path! It can't do anything else!

The only way the ball slices is if the clubface is open to your swing path!

This is correct...there's some confusion in this thread between "path" and "target line".

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/29/2016 at 9:01 PM, iacas said:

@Buckeyebowman, not always (depending on what you mean by "open")… If 0° is the target line, and negative is left… please describe, with a driver, the following flights (for a right-handed golfer):

a) Clubface is -5°, path is -10°.

b) Clubface is 0°, path is -5°.

c) Clubface is 5°, path is 0°.

d) Clubface is 5°, path is -5°.

A) Is a dead pull hook. What many would call a "duck hook", a quacker off the planet left!

B) Starts at target, hooks left.  

C) A slice that starts at the target and ends well right.

D) Ah hah! This is the puzzler! Since the degrees of angle are exactly opposed, I think that many might suppose that the shot would be straight. But since the angles are 10 degrees opposite, I'm thinking this might might be a big, old pull slice!

I'm sure you will let me know how I did on this exam, and I'm anxious to learn the results. I found it interesting, and quite tricky, that you put clubface angle before path. I had to change a few of my answers when I realized this was the case. I don't know why, but I've become conditioned to consider path before clubface angle!  It may come from my early days, when my swing path was fine, but I would "hang on" to the handle like a starving dog would hang on to a steak!

BTW, it doesn't matter WHAT I MEAN by open! Clubface open to the swing path is a hard measurable! That is, if you have sophisticated equipment or 20/10 vision! Most of us depend upon results. Of course nuances are available. That is, if the clubface is "closing" at the moment of contact, or "static", or "opening".

I thought about responding to Valleygolfer's post, though I couldn't see a good reason why I should!

EDIT: BTW, I didn't think it was all that harmful to offer quite a small suggestion to the OP. I helped people before with just that!

Edited July 1, 2016 by Buckeyebowman

[Piz]

Pressure decreases where velocity increases.  For a ball to curve right it must be rotating (as observed from above) in a clockwise direction.  Think Ping-Pong; the ball is much lighter but the principle is the same.  You are hitting a cut.  Take a tip from Bobby Jones and try hitting the ball where you are afraid it will go.  Set up straight down the pipeline and aim for the right edge of the fairway.  When you can rope it out of bounds right...you'll have cured your slice.  Then you can start working on that pesky block...

[Lihu]

On June 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, cbrister said:

Phone won't let me upload video but here's an impact position pic I screenshot. I'll figure out how to upload the video this afternoon 

 

On June 29, 2016 at 7:42 AM, cbrister said:

Turns out after hitting some balls, I was letting my right hand get over to the side of the club a bit too much. It was letting it open just enough to slice right at the end of the flight. I readjusted and the slice is no longer there. 

I think people are waiting for a swing thread before answering, but I noticed that your swing is not quite in line. That "flip" could be causing your out to in path? If what I read of your "cure" is correct, I think you might have straightened out the club shaft to lead arm angle a bit. Keep an eye on that in your videos. Your arms should stay in sync with your body rotation.

If you run into the issue again, just post a video and the experts can answer better.

[iacas]

On June 29, 2016 at 9:01 PM, iacas said:

a) Clubface is -5°, path is -10°.
b) Clubface is 0°, path is -5°.
c) Clubface is 5°, path is 0°.
d) Clubface is 5°, path is -5°.

Okay, let's see how you did. No judgments here, btw… the intent is to help.

I'll put the numbers before each below in red.

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

A) (Clubface -5°, Path -10°) Is a dead pull hook. What many would call a "duck hook", a quacker off the planet left!

No. The ball starts left (about 6° left), and then slices. The face is left of the target (closed to the target), but open to the path (which is 10° left).

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

B) (Clubface 0°, Path -5°) Starts at target, hooks left.

Ball starts barely left of target, slices right.

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

C) (Clubface 5°, Path 0°) A slice that starts at the target and ends well right.

This ball actually starts well right of the target (4° or so) and then slices from there.

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

D) (Clubface 5°, Path -5°) Ah hah! This is the puzzler! Since the degrees of angle are exactly opposed, I think that many might suppose that the shot would be straight. But since the angles are 10 degrees opposite, I'm thinking this might might be a big, old pull slice!

Big push that starts 3°+ right of the target, and then slices biggest of all of these examples from here.

I'm not sure why you thought the first two balls would hook (the face was open to the path, or the path was left of the face, in all of these examples), but it's clear you seem to think the ball starts where the path is. It truly starts out much closer to where the clubface is pointing.

You can hit a slice any time the face is open to the path (or the path is left of the face = same thing, said differently). If the face is left of the target, but the path is farther left (a), that's still a slice.

And a push-slice is a face pointing right of the target and a path that's somewhere left of it. So, C and D would qualify as push-slices. You could also make the clubface 10° right and the path 5° right and would still get a push-slice.

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I'm sure you will let me know how I did on this exam, and I'm anxious to learn the results. I found it interesting, and quite tricky, that you put clubface angle before path. I had to change a few of my answers when I realized this was the case. I don't know why, but I've become conditioned to consider path before clubface angle!  It may come from my early days, when my swing path was fine, but I would "hang on" to the handle like a starving dog would hang on to a steak!

Feels, you'll find, aren't real. The ball starts much closer to where the clubface is pointing, and understanding this is important to people diagnosing their ball flight because it can lead to working on very different things. For example, a guy who hits a ball that starts straight at the target and slices from there does not need to swing left more. That'll just lead to bigger slices. He actually needs to swing to the right a bit more (to reduce the leftward path) and/or point the clubface a bit farther left at impact (so the ball has room to curve left).

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

BTW, it doesn't matter WHAT I MEAN by open! Clubface open to the swing path is a hard measurable! That is, if you have sophisticated equipment or 20/10 vision! Most of us depend upon results. Of course nuances are available. That is, if the clubface is "closing" at the moment of contact, or "static", or "opening".

It matters because I didn't know if you meant "open" to the target or the club path. And golf clubs are almost always "closing" (unless you toe it) during the impact interval, but that's not particularly relevant: the clubface closes very very little during the impact interval.

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws