Golf club thief picked the wrong mark - gets held at gunpoint

[Jeremie Boop]

2 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

No, as I said I would take the license plate and let it play out instead of putting my self Ina position I could get shot by the thief or by the cops or some other bystander who also had a gun..

here is another scenario.. I pull the gun and some other law inforcement officer is in the area he sees me flashing a wepon so he comes over gun drawn and now we have a big mess on our hands.

You are assuming there is a license plate number to get. If a police officer comes over then good, it won't take long for him to find out what really was going on and the thief still ends up in custody which was the entire point.

[Abu3baid]

5 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

What the heck good is a license plate going to do you?

Maybe things are different in the KSA, but the cops here don't investigate theft.

 

I didn't know that theft is not investigated.  I'm not sure what they do in KSA but I'm going to assume that if someone stole from me and I told them the license plate they would look into it. 

[mcanadiens]

1 minute ago, Abu3baid said:

I didn't know that theft is not investigated.  I'm not sure what they do in KSA but I'm going to assume that if someone stole from me and I told them the license plate they would look into it. 

Not around here anyway.

We're on our own. We defend ourselves and our property or nobody does.

[Strandly]

6 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I'm guessing this guy had other issues. Anger management... mental... ptsd... who knows. 

Are you suggesting the old guy had a history of threatening non-criminal people?  What do his ailments matter if he's not hurting anyone?

I think when someone decides to become a criminal they agree to whatever bad could possibly happen to them.

[CarlSpackler]

1 minute ago, Abu3baid said:

I didn't know that theft is not investigated.  I'm not sure what they do in KSA but I'm going to assume that if someone stole from me and I told them the license plate they would look into it. 

Yes. They may come and fill out a police report for the insurance claim, but that will be the end of it.

...unless you know people or are someone important. 

[Patch]

Just reading through this thread, and I am thinking of how many posters on in this thread have actually shot another human being? How many have even pulled a gun on another human being? Worse yet, how many contributing to this thread have actually killed another human being with any kind of weapon?

Some are making it seem like such an easy deal. I am not looking for a show of hands here, but I would suspect not very many ( 1 or 2 at the most) have actually been in a situation where they pulled a gun, shot, and killed another person. Maybe some who might have been in the military, in a life/death struggle. 

[Abu3baid]

8 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

You are assuming there is a license plate number to get. If a police officer comes over then good, it won't take long for him to find out what really was going on and the thief still ends up in custody which was the entire point.

In most cases there would be, plus your making the assumption the guy is guilty. If he wasn't, then what?  Can the cops even arrest him?  Don't they become liable for a lawsuit as well?  

Anyway, I hope that none of us find our selves in this situation.

[rehmwa]

48 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

I would like to think his threats were just to keep the thief down and scared to run until police showed up.I doubt the thief would have let himself be caught if the guy just said "you stole my clubs im calling cops.

I'd like to think that too and actually thought he was playing it up.  Right up until the thief was lying on the ground yet the the old guy continued to tantrum on and on and on.  If he was in control, he'd have stopped threatening with the gun the moment the thief was lying there and the other guy was there to help hold him down.  Other than being way dramatic, I was ok with this video right up to that point.  Then I was NOT ok with it.

I'm a gun owner and 2nd advocate, my father was a gun smith and collector most of his 87 years of life - it's part of my DNA.  This old guy should not own a gun - self control is the biggest requirement for gun ownership IMHO.  He wasn't showing it.

[Jeremie Boop]

10 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

In most cases there would be, plus your making the assumption the guy is guilty. If he wasn't, then what?  Can the cops even arrest him?  Don't they become liable for a lawsuit as well?  

Anyway, I hope that none of us find our selves in this situation.

I'm speaking specifically of catching the guy in the act, so there is no "assumption" of guilt. I know he's guilty because I caught him. I don't necessarily agree that in most cases there's going to be a vehicle close by, they'll tend to park around the block or someplace where they can run off to. I agree, I hope nobody I know has to deal with this either. I really hope that I never have to deal with having anything stolen from me again, considering the total cost to me so far is probably close $10,000 worth of possessions I've had stolen over the past 10 years.

12 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Yes. They may come and fill out a police report for the insurance claim, but that will be the end of it.

...unless you know people or are someone important. 

Pretty much exactly this, and I was even told a couple times that there's not even much they can do. People that steal typically aren't stupid enough to sell to pawn shops, they'll use a fence or something so they can sell stuff off without it ever being somewhere that keeps the items off the grid. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Jeremie Boop

[Abu3baid]

1 minute ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I'm speaking specifically of catching the guy in the act, so there is no "assumption" of guilt. I know he's guilty because I caught him. I don't necessarily agree that in most cases there's going to be a vehicle close by, they'll tend to park around the block or someplace where they can run off to. I agree, I hope nobody I know has to deal with this either. I really hope that I never have to deal with having anything stolen from me again, considering the total cost to me so far is probably close $10,000 worth of possessions I've had stolen over the past 10 years.

We are talking about two different situations my friend.

I have been speaking about a situation as the one in the video.

 

[Hardspoon]

3 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

considering the total cost to me so far is probably close $10,000 worth of possessions I've had stolen over the past 10 years.

This is all moot, then...even if you owned a gun, it would have already been stolen!

(kidding, of course)

[Jeremie Boop]

Just now, Abu3baid said:

We are talking about two different situations my friend.

I have been speaking about a situation as the one in the video.

 

I can see that, given some of your recent responses, however I did qualify it as if I had caught the person who stole my clubs, which just happened last year. So, you see, it's still pretty fresh for me and a bit of a sore spot.

**And it is actually the second time I've had clubs stolen from me, but the previous time was probably 15 years prior.

[BamaWade]

Depending on local laws, a non officer of the law generally has a right to forcibly detain someone in the commission of, or obviously post-commission of a felony - a "citizen's arrest" (cue the Gomer clip!) so to speak.  I don't know that this situation qualifies.

FWIW, law officers are indeed trained to loudly intimidate during arrest once drawing a weapon - a psychological tactic to bring the situation under control ASAP.  So at some point (even as a FM) he was likely trained in this tactic.  But yep, his continuation after the suspect was under control was out of bounds.

That all said, this guy, IMO, brought the public into danger with his actions (if it were to have escalated to shots being fired (or other weapon use, or car speeding away out of lot, etc.) that could have left him culpable in court, both criminal and civil.  Irresponsible to have put others into harms way over a non-violent crime, and he's lucky it didn't escalate.

I've been carjacked at gunpoint (in the 90s) and had my home burglarized, so I get it...man do I get it.  But you're not within your rights to bring others into danger unless absolutely necessary to prevent imminent danger to yourself or others.

I own my share of firearms.  Lesson number 1 when I was given them (or taught to shoot) at a young age was the level of responsibility that comes with them.  I hope, other than target training, that I never have to use one.

BamaWade

Edited August 18, 2016 by BamaWade
spelling

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Gunther said:

The over-reaction there is what drove my comments, moreso than the reactions here, which have been, by and large, pretty tame.

You were not responding to GMac on Twitter.

3 hours ago, Gunther said:

There are far more egregious things happening in the world today of which you and most others have no clue.  My plea is to move on from this very minor episode and focus on the big picture.

Right. You're the only clued in person. You're not wrong. In fact, you don't even just have a different opinion… we are all just clueless dolts "focusing" on the wrong things.

Please.

1 hour ago, drmevo said:

Let's think this through...say you pull your gun on the guy, with no intention of actually shooting.  Well, what happens when he has a gun of his own? I mean, we already know he's a criminal, so who's to say he's not armed? Is it really worth it over golf clubs? Either taking a life or losing your own?

Stealing golf clubs hours before in no way creates a situation in which the presentation (show of, by pulling a gun) of deadly force is necessary.

54 minutes ago, Strandly said:

Well obviously the age of the smartphone makes it harder to pull off but the point is criminals don't play by the rule of law so if you want to win a confrontation like this then you can't either.

Uhhmmm? Crazy talk.

54 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Jesus, lock this thread and all the dumb ass cowboy comments. Delete it even. As a gun owner, with a permit, it's unsettling. Shooting someone for golf clubs WTF.

Headed that way.

51 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

here is another scenario.. I pull the gun and some other law inforcement officer is in the area he sees me flashing a wepon so he comes over gun drawn and now we have a big mess on our hands.

A legitimate argument. Someone else - maybe some other person who has a CCW permit - sees you possibly shooting someone and shoots you!

30 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I'm a gun owner and 2nd advocate, my father was a gun smith and collector most of his 87 years of life - it's part of my DNA.  This old guy should not own a gun - self control is the biggest requirement for gun ownership IMHO.  He wasn't showing it.

Agreed.

3 minutes ago, BamaWade said:

That all said, this guy, IMO, brought the public into danger with his actions (if it were to have escalated to shots being fired (or other weapon use, or car speeding away out of lot, etc.) that could have left him culpable in court, both criminal and civil.  Irresponsible to have put others into harms way over a non-violent crime, and he's lucky it didn't escalate.

Agreed.

I see little chance this thread survives the afternoon without being locked.

[mcanadiens]

4 minutes ago, BamaWade said:

FWIW, law officers are indeed trained to loudly intimidate during arrest once drawing a weapon - a psychological tactic to bring the situation under control ASAP.  So at some point (even as a FM) he was likely trained in this tactic.  But yep, his continuation after the suspect was under control was out of bounds.

Reminds me of the line from Goodfellas

Henry Hill: [Henry has just been busted for dealing drugs] For a second I thought I was dead. But, when I heard all the noise, I knew they were cops. Only cops talk that way. If they'd been wiseguys, I wouldn't have heard a thing. I would've been dead.

[Jeremie Boop]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

A legitimate argument. Someone else - maybe some other person who has a CCW permit - sees you possibly shooting someone and shoots you!

To be fair, this could happen any time someone see's another person with their gun out.

[BamaWade]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

Agreed.

I see little chance this thread survives the afternoon without being locked.

Yep.  This is a sensitive topic in our world for sure, where debate doesn't always accomplish much.  As gentlemen with the common interest in golf, here, we need to de-escalate this situation perhaps by describing the go-to golf shot we could taken down a criminal with.

I would let the dude get about 25 yards left and 50 long of me, then ripped my snap hook and taken him down with a Titleist (or Srixon...either's fine).  I have that shot in my bag any time of day.

BamaWade

Edited August 18, 2016 by BamaWade
word change

[Dave2512]

Just looking at the kids picture and the way he reacted to crazy old guy I'm pretty sure a loud boo would have been enough. Looks like the type you could drag to the police station by his ear grandma style.