Flat wrist at the top - Slicing

[deekay]

Hi all,

Just about every slice "fix" on the internet seems to focus on developing a flat left wrist (right handed player) at the top of the backswing. You almost get the idea that you are doomed to slice every tee shot you hit for the rest of your life if you don't have that flat wrist at the top.

As a bogey golfer I am also prone to the more-than-occasional slice with my woods. The problem is that as soon as I do anything to consciously flatten that wrist my entire swing falls apart. I am lucky if I even make contact with the ball at all! It just feels horribly unnatural.

What I have had success with, without discernible loss of launch/distance, is to address the ball with the club face slightly closed Now if the club face "lags behind" it ends up square, rather than closed, at impact. I know it's a band-aid, but it does work for me. (Is this not also how draw biased drivers work?)

Is this flat wrist thing really essential? I can see it's not one of the 5 keys, but is it nevertheless a must-have?

 

 

[Rainmaker]

Well - in my opinion and experience what your wrist is doing at the top of the backswing has almost nothing to do with slicing.  Slicing is the first "really tough fix" that most of us face . .and if all we had to do was manipulate our wrist at the top of the back swing, it would be far easier to fix.  

The slow answer is - fixing a slice requires a holistic approach - fixing various flaws in your set up and swing until your mental picture starts to change.  I can tell you why *I* used to slice it . .and I'm sure I'm not alone.  I used to slice it because I swang over the top of the plane.  I swang over the top of the plane because it *seemed* like the right thing to do.  Bear with me . .I *knew* swinging over the plane was "bad" . . but I didn't really understand it.  If you asked me at that time if I swang over the top . .I probably would've hemmed and hawed and said something like . .sometimes when x,y,z is not working . . .but in reality it was all the time .. every time . .even when I hit a draw with it.  

I had to take this wonky slice swing . .learn to hit a draw with it . . play like that for a good while and working on other things in  my lessons . .until . .all of a sudden . .it became *apparent* to me that I was swinging over the plane and why?  Because I was hitting at the ball (dont get me started).  Not hitting at the ball is probably the second "really tough fix" that a lot of us make . .it was for me.  

But all this stuff is mental picture, in my mind.  If I had the right mental picture on day 1, I would've been a much better golfer on day 1 . .so that explains why some people get past this really quick (or don't struggle with it at all) and some people never get past it.  

If I could go back in time 5 years and talk to myself on the range . . .I would've said . .stop, go home . .get lessons.  I needed help to get to the right mental picture . .with the wrong mental picture I would've been doomed to endless self-diagnosis and misapplication of golf tips.  

 

[iacas]

You slice because your path is left of the clubface (which is often pointing to the left).

A flat left wrist at the top of the backswing (A4) doesn't really have much to do with that.

[cipher]

Check this out as well:

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/77244-how-to-hit-a-driver-hit-it-further-and-stop-slicing/#comment-760619

[Let it Fly]

Interesting topic for me personally.  Path & wrist plane are two keys I've been working on all winter after finally getting back to professional instruction to correct problematic hard & balloon slices.

 

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

You slice because your path is left of the clubface

Very first thing was correcting my path.  We also got into flatting the glove wrist (almost bowing it to the extreme when practicing to get the feel) to help create more penetrating ball flight.  When I was cupped at the top, I was losing a lot of distance due to shots ballooning & leaking on me...which I'm sure was in combination with a poor path, too.

Just my two cents on some recent experience with this topic.   

[deekay]

I agree my push/slice is caused by the clubface being open to the path. I just want to know if there is any other way to help me square up the clubface, other than the flat wrist at the top, which I just don't seem able to do....

[Marty2019]

Assuming you mean curving the ball from left to right, your slice is because you are spinning the ball, which means, you are not hitting the ball squarely.  The club face is not perpendicular to the clubhead path.   You could be coming over the top (outside-in), or you could be leaving the club face open.  Of course, this is obvious and you know it already.  

The fix depends on what's causing it. 

You say addressing the ball with the club faced slightly closed works for you.   It sounds like you've found a fix.  I'd go with it. 

As far as the flat left wrist, that's something I've been working on lately, and I've found that it's easiest to do if I do it right off the bat- take the club back with the face slightly closed.  That way, my wrist flattens before I ever get to the top of the back swing. 

Another thing I'm doing is the pre-set drill.   I address the ball, then hinge the club back where it is parallel to the target, and I have a flat left wrist.  Then I just rotate my shoulders back.  That puts me in a backswing position with a flat left wrist.   It's good for getting the feeling of a flat wrist at the top of the back swing. 

Nick Faldo Pre-set Drill

Edited February 3, 2017 by Marty2019

[iacas]

Flat at the top doesn't mean it stays that way throughout the downswing, @deekay.

Video in a Member Swing thread would be helpful.

[DaveP043]

5 hours ago, deekay said:

I agree my push/slice is caused by the clubface being open to the path. I just want to know if there is any other way to help me square up the clubface, other than the flat wrist at the top, which I just don't seem able to do....

It is quite possible that the thing(s) that makes it difficult for you to keep your wrist flat is the same thing that causes you to slice, that the left wrist is a symptom rather than a cause.  If you can determine the true cause, you can work towards fixing it.  Posting a video, as @iacas suggests, would be a good first step in trying to identify the root of the problem.

[RandallT]

5 hours ago, deekay said:

I agree my push/slice is caused by the clubface being open to the path. I just want to know if there is any other way to help me square up the clubface, other than the flat wrist at the top, which I just don't seem able to do....

Re: "I just don't seem to be able to do"

What have you done to work on it? And for how long each day? And how many weeks?

I've been working on the flat wrist with a notebook drill, and mirror work, primarily.  5-15min per day (see the daily practice challenge threads here on TST). For a couple months. 

If you are serious about it, it will work, and I'm feeling improvement.  

You gotta put in the effort though. I'm not singling you out or calling BS on your effort at all! I'm just letting folks know that if you are someone for whom this is your priority, and you work at it, then it's quite do-able.  Takes work. 

[Rainmaker]

Just for data . .to the degree that I have fixed this issue . .and I have fixed it so that my left wrist is flat at impact but I still could be slightly more forward to be in total line with my shoulders . . .9 months of (semi-regular) lessons and practice.  Not every single thing was directly about this issue - but everything contributed to me moving past it.  

I would take video and use my wrist at impact as a measurement of how things were going - it's only been in the last 2 months that we started even addressing this directly in my lessons.  

[Buckeyebowman]

16 hours ago, deekay said:

I agree my push/slice is caused by the clubface being open to the path. I just want to know if there is any other way to help me square up the clubface, other than the flat wrist at the top, which I just don't seem able to do....

I can't do it either. And as far as I know, never have. It was never a concern until I started reading, and watching, a lot of instruction. So last year I was bound and determined to flatten that wrist! The few times I was able to do so at the range, verified by my buddy who was watching me swing, it was actually painful! Right in that little "notch" between the heel of the left hand and the first big wrist bone. It hurt like hell! So I said to heck with it!

And I can actually play fairly well, even shot around par in my late teens early 20's. Of course that was a long time ago, but I broke 80 a couple of times last year. And I almost never slice. If anything I fight a hook more than anything else.

All I'm trying to do now is arrive at impact with a flat left wrist, hands slightly ahead of the ball with a little forward shaft lean. Just trying to clean up my impact position and gain a little consistency, especially with my irons to avoid hitting them fat, which I also fight. The soft conditions we have here in the Spring make this important.

I'm not recommending this for you, so my reply may be of no help whatsoever. The number of variables between any two golf swings are almost innumerable. Just look at the swings on Tour! Just keep at it until you find something that works FOR YOU!

 

[iacas]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

Video in a Member Swing thread would be helpful.

Quoting myself again.

Still the best advice and help you're going to get in this thread.

[arturo28mx]

For years I worried about a flat left wrist and it was useless. I fixed my slice when I learned to properly release my arms/club on the downswing. For me, a good arms release is what squares the clubface on impact. Crucial to have arms/elbows close together during the entire swing. If you don't, the release is not so good.

[deekay]

Thanks for the comments. I will sort out a swing video and post it.

As enthusiastic as I am, I (like many others I am sure) am not able to spend hours and hours practising or taking lessons. I was just asking for guidance so I dont waste the practise time I do have chasing something that may not be necessary.

[Blackjack Don]

On 2/7/2017 at 10:34 AM, arturo28mx said:

For years I worried about a flat left wrist and it was useless. I fixed my slice when I learned to properly release my arms/club on the downswing. For me, a good arms release is what squares the clubface on impact. Crucial to have arms/elbows close together during the entire swing. If you don't, the release is not so good.

This is something I don't understand. I work hard on holding the lag as much as I can. Video has shown me I tend to let go too early. If done properly, release comes automatically, right? My coach keeps saying "Knuckles down" and I have no idea what this means. If I hold onto the lag, with relaxed wrists, left wrist forward, I hit a reasonable driver. If my left wrist breaks down, Fore Left!

I get the elbows close, but do you have "control" over your hands and wrist to release the clubhead?

[RandallT]

1 hour ago, deekay said:

As enthusiastic as I am, I (like many others I am sure) am not able to spend hours and hours practising or taking lessons.

This was at the heart of what I was trying to express in my response- you can make progress by just making 5 minutes per day to do backswings in your house- checking your wrist at various positions, staying very aware. Just have deliberate focus on one thing. 

My experience is that this is far more productive than spending hours and hours at once. That work bleeds over to your "unconscious" swing eventually. 

[nevets88]

16 minutes ago, RandallT said:

This was at the heart of what I was trying to express in my response- you can make progress by just making 5 minutes per day to do backswings in your house- checking your wrist at various positions, staying very aware. Just have deliberate focus on one thing. 

My experience is that this is far more productive than spending hours and hours at once. That work bleeds over to your "unconscious" swing eventually. 

Me too. I think 10 minutes a day every day for a week is a lot better than one 1.5 hour session every week. Provided you're working on the something most conducive to improvement.