44" Driver

[Gunther]

8 hours ago, Ken11 said:

Gunther, did you cut a shaft down and added lead tape or did you buy a new shorter shaft with a higher weight? Or did you do nothing to make up for the reduced swing weight? I am happy for your success.

Butt cut current shaft to 44" and regripped. No tape.  @Golfingdad's experience guided me.  He didn't tape either so I figured I'd try it.  As it happens, I won't need to add weight but I was prepared to if I didn't get results.

Good luck!

[JxQx]

I had my driver cut down from 45.5" to 44.5" and liked the improvement, I also had my 3 wood cut down as well because I felt that was a little long as well. I don't think I lost any real distance to speak of.

[phillyk]

I play a 44.5in driver and I still grip down about 1.5in.  I still hit roughly the same distance but with much better accuracy.  I also grip down on my 3 wood for the same reason.

[Denny Bang Bang]

I think I saw during one of the PGA events recently, that Rickie Fowler switched to a 43" driver this year?  And he's averaging about 310 with driver (and he's a pretty small dude on top of that)?

 I got a new driver last year, dropping down to I think 44.5".  Not much loss in distance, pretty good gain in accuracy.  I still choke down a little, when I'm looking for even more accuracy.  After all these years of golf salespeople telling me I don't want a shorter shaft, I listened to my gut and it worked out just fine.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Denny Bang Bang

[gregsandiego]

22 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

IMO the modern drivers are RIDICULOUSLY too long.  I had a few cutdown by my club guy and liked them WAY more.  On my current model I just choke up a good two and a half inches or so.  Grip/sw feels fine for me.

Also I have never hit a club well when the shaft was a tip kick or however that's defined.  For some reason I like the ok mid or high.

I went in to my local PGA store today and the new  XXIO drivers were 46".The sales guy told me that the average new driver was in the 45.5 to 46 range.

Are there players out there that like this?

[1badbadger]

47 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

I went in to my local PGA store today and the new  XXIO drivers were 46".The sales guy told me that the average new driver was in the 45.5 to 46 range.

Are there players out there that like this?

I think there are a couple reasons for this trend...

One reason is because heads are getting lighter and shafts are getting lighter because "a lighter club can be swung faster than a heavier club."  True enough, but when heads are under 200g and shafts are less than 50g, some length is needed to keep the swingweight up.

The other reason is perception.  I'm willing to bet that if Joe Average Consumer went to his local golf store to buy a new driver, and one rack had 46" drivers and the rack next to it had 44" drivers, the longer clubs would sell at least 5:1, just because they are longer.  I have no data to back this up whatsoever, but the mentality that "bigger is better" has an ugly cousin named "longer is better".  It's just a theory, but I think there is some validity to it.

[Lihu]

9 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

I think there are a couple reasons for this trend...

One reason is because heads are getting lighter and shafts are getting lighter because "a lighter club can be swung faster than a heavier club."  True enough, but when heads are under 200g and shafts are less than 50g, some length is needed to keep the swingweight up.

The other reason is perception.  I'm willing to bet that if Joe Average Consumer went to his local golf store to buy a new driver, and one rack had 46" drivers and the rack next to it had 44" drivers, the longer clubs would sell at least 5:1, just because they are longer.  I have no data to back this up whatsoever, but the mentality that "bigger is better" has an ugly cousin named "longer is better".  It's just a theory, but I think there is some validity to it.

I know one older golfer who plays a 48" driver and was hitting 65% or so fairways. For slow and accurate players,it seems like longer is possibly better?

[1badbadger]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

I know one older golfer who plays a 48" driver and was hitting 65% or so fairways. For slow and accurate players,it seems like longer is possibly better?

Players who have a more deliberate change-of-direction at the top of the swing, a smoother tempo, a late release and are on-plane or slightly flat.  This type of player will be able to use the longer shaft to create more clubhead speed at impact.  If they can consistently find the center of the club, they could get better results from a longer shaft. Usually, the percentage of mishits with a longer shaft will increase though.

Golfers with a quick tempo and an aggressive change-of-direction (think Nick Price or Hubert Green), guys who have a mid to early release,or who don't always find the sweet-spot, a shorter shaft will be a big benefit.  

The thing that players need to realize is a longer shaft does not automatically mean more clubhead speed or more distance. Maximum clubhead speed occurs when the club is released. Most players release the club early, so a longer driver will actually be slowing down as it comes into impact!

                                                                                                                                                         

[gregsandiego]

16 hours ago, Lihu said:

I know one older golfer who plays a 48" driver and was hitting 65% or so fairways. For slow and accurate players,it seems like longer is possibly better?

I think that's mathematically right. The bigger the radius (club length) the larger the arc of the swing and the higher the club head speed.

I wish it was true for me. I have a damn hard time hitting the sweet spot with a 46"

[b101]

I play a 44.5 driver and having it cut down from 46 as part of a fitting made a huge difference - they also popped some extra weight in certain spots to keep the clubhead as stable as possible.

In terms of 3 wood longer than driver, I used to have this and for me, it was due to my Angle of Attack being -8 degrees. It meant that I could just about get away with it when hitting 3w and, whilst there wasn't much margin for error, hit to around 280 on occasion. With the driver though, you'd have pop-ups, big slices or very, very low shots. It was rare that a good drive would work better than a good 3 wood. Thankfully, that's a thing of the past 

[Lihu]

9 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

I think that's mathematically right. The bigger the radius (club length) the larger the arc of the swing and the higher the club head speed.

I wish it was true for me. I have a damn hard time hitting the sweet spot with a 46"

Yeah, I know how you feel.

He's a pretty good golfer. Been golfing for something like 50+ years since he was a kid.

I read quite a few articles from people like Wishon, and the first thing they emphasize is that only people who release late and "release" late get any of actual the effects of shaft length and stiffness. I guess this makes some sense, but IDK for sure if I'm interpreting things correctly or not?

[1badbadger]

15 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

I think that's mathematically right. The bigger the radius (club length) the larger the arc of the swing and the higher the club head speed.

I wish it was true for me. I have a damn hard time hitting the sweet spot with a 46"

 

6 hours ago, Lihu said:

Yeah, I know how you feel.

He's a pretty good golfer. Been golfing for something like 50+ years since he was a kid.

I read quite a few articles from people like Wishon, and the first thing they emphasize is that only people who release late and "release" late get any of actual the effects of shaft length and stiffness. I guess this makes some sense, but IDK for sure if I'm interpreting things correctly or not?

In theory Greg, the longer the club, the bigger the swing arc, the more clubhead speed is generated and the farther the ball goes.  It looks good on paper, but in real life it doesn't always work.

You're on the right track Lihu.  How a player releases the club makes a difference.  What Tom Wishon talks about is for all players, the highest clubhead speed during a swing happens right as the club is fully released.  This is one of the benefits of delaying the release as long as possible...at impact the club will be moving the fastest, or at least accelerating when the ball is hit.  Most players release the club at least a little early, some release it a lot early.  This means the clubhead reaches max speed before impact.  By the time it gets to the ball, it's slowing down.  The longer the shaft, the more noticeable this becomes.

"The longer the length beyond what is necessary for golfer comfort and consistent stance/posture position, the more difficult the club will be to swing consistently for EVERY golfer."   - Tom Wishon

[cnl390]

I took a hacksaw, cut 1.5" off the shaft, re-gripped and love it.  Hit more fairways, haven't lost any distance (actually have gained a little) & can't remember the last time I had a really bad ball strike.

[azgreg]

I'm currently playing a TM R540 with a TT DG S300 shaft at 43". Loving it so far.

 

[DrvFrShow]

44.5" for me.

[arturo28mx]

For years I used Titleist drivers with 45 inch factory length shafts. I knew 46 inch shafts of other brands caused me control problems so I figured 45 inches was about right. However, I still struggled with the driver and only hit about 50% good shots. I finally decided to trim my shaft to 44 inches. The biggest implication of trimming a shaft is a reduction in swingweight. Many people say you lose 6 swingweight points for every inch you cut, but I only lost 5 swingweight points, a reduction from D3 to C8. For a lot of people this would be too light and they would have to add lead tape to the head. But guess what, I'm 60 years old and I've discovered that for me a C8 swingweight is not bad at all. My fairway woods were already at C8.

So I had a triple  benefit,  a shorter shaft helped me hit the center of the club face more often, and a reduced swingweight helped me achieve a slightly higher club head speed. Also, the shorter shaft gave me a better posture and this helped me control my slices. I couldn't be happier.

[Joeyvee]

On 3/17/2017 at 1:25 PM, Gunther said:

Yes, about 6 rounds with the 44" and definitely finding the fairway more frequently.  Max distance potential gone but average distance up.  I'll never go back to 45, let alone TM's standard of 46.

Oh, and 2 of my buds have done the same after seeing my results.  It's a goddamn movement, like no one has ever seen.  Believe me!

I've been in this camp for a LOOOONNNGG time. I had a TM R7 Quad when it was new and I knew something was off. Looked at the length and it was stupid long - then it was only about 44 3/4" I think. Chopped off the 3/4" and gained accuracy.

On 3/18/2017 at 2:48 PM, 1badbadger said:

You don't have to have a heavier shaft, but it helps keep the swingweight up.  So if you're going to re-shaft a driver and make it a shorter length (as opposed to cutting the stock shaft down) I recommend selecting something heavier.

I think one of the big reasons people have the impression shorter drivers will cost them too much distance or don't perform as well as a 45" club is because they simply lop off an inch and don't address the loss of swingweight.  I guarantee that if they don't hit the ball almost as far or further with better accuracy, it's not because it's 1" shorter...it's because it's 6 swing weight points lighter.  Give these guys a 45" driver that weighs C6 and the results wouldn't be good. 

Driver heads with removable weight screws are really helpful in this situation, so guys who want to try a shorter shaft without re-shafting can cut down a lighter weight shaft and use heavier screws to get the s.w. back up.  If cost is not a factor I prefer using a heavier shaft because to me it helps the overall balance of the club.  Some weight will still need to be added to the head usually, just not as much.

I was at an Iron fitting yesterday and told the fitter who recommended to replace the gram weights with 6 grams to get the swing weight back up and he said length, forgiveness, and accuracy would further increase. OR add lead tape if you don't have the weighted screws. 

He also said I should get heavier shafts for my hybrids.

[pgone]

On 3/17/2017 at 8:08 PM, 1badbadger said:

I have seen this quite a bit where a player hits his 3 wood as far or further than his driver.  It's usually a combination of more loft and the shorter shaft.  I have been a huge proponent of shorter driver shafts for many years and would encourage you to try it. Most players see an increase in accuracy and distance.

Since you mentioned re-shafting your driver as opposed to cutting down the existing shaft, I would recommend going with something heavier to help keep the swingweight up.  A model in the 75-80g range will make a nice difference.  Keeping the swingweight from getting too light is the key to making it work.

I agree 100%-- On the swingweight -- Why raise the bridge when you can lower the water ?