Distance measuring devices to be tested in Web.com and other minor league events

[nevets88]

The evaluation points seem like an out to me. Appearance on television? I guess they're afraid of players and caddie looking funny getting yardages? Arnold Palmer is quoted in favor of them, thinking it'll be a thing on the big tour eventually.

Quote

The PGA Tour announced a trial run of sorts, allowing players at several upcoming tournaments on the Web.com Tour, the PGA Tour Latinoamerica and the Mackenzie PGA Tour Canada to compete in tournament rounds using laser rangefinders and other distance measuring devices. The tour said the events will be the beginning of a test to see how the devices impact play.

Quote

The PGA Tour indicated that the results of the test will be compiled and shared with the Player Advisory Council on all its tours, but did not provide a more specific timeline. According to a spokesman, the evaluation will include "pace of play metrics," "operational issues," "player feedback" and "appearance on television."

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-to-allow-use-of-distance-measuring-devices-but-just-as-a-test

[klineka]

I wonder if there will be any statistical benefit from players using these compared to how it is currently. From the pictures I've seen of yardage books, they seem very detailed, and I wonder just how much in terms of performance gain will pros see as a result, or if the biggest benefit really will be pace of play?

[iacas]

I don't think they'll be any faster on the PGA Tour.

I do think they speed up play quite a bit for regular golfers.

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

I wonder if there will be any statistical benefit from players using these compared to how it is currently. From the pictures I've seen of yardage books, they seem very detailed, and I wonder just how much in terms of performance gain will pros see as a result, or if the biggest benefit really will be pace of play?

My guess is that there'll be very little change. Most yardage books are really accurate, I think initially the DMDs will serve to confirm that has already been established by pacing yardages from known points.  Eventually, they may start with the DMD, especially lasers, and use the books to calculate other distances (over bunker, to a ridge on the green, etc) based on the yardage books.  Either way, there's still going to be simple math and discussions of the target distances, I don't see much change in pace of play.

[klineka]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't think they'll be any faster on the PGA Tour.

I do think they speed up play quite a bit for regular golfers.

I agree 100% for regular golfers. Since I've gotten one, both my pace of play and my confidence in club selection have both gotten better.

Knowing the pin is exactly 163 away vs. "ehh its 160-175 ish" makes a huge difference in club selection and confidence that the club I chose is the right one. 

I also have been using it more lately off the tee as well to determine how far fairway bunkers are and whether it is safe to hit driver, 3 wood, or a long iron.

[JxQx]

I agree with what many others are saying, it most likely won't change the pace of pros due to the accuracy of the yardage books they already use, but would help average golfers immensely. 

[David in FL]

You consider the  Web.com Tour to be minor league?!  

 

[nevets88]

15 minutes ago, David in FL said:

You consider the  Web.com Tour to be minor league?!  

 

I knew someone was going to chime in on that.  Isn't Triple A minor league? Or the OHL?

I was thinking top flight developmental tour, but that's a mouthful.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

You consider the  Web.com Tour to be minor league?!  

It is.

[billchao]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Either way, there's still going to be simple math and discussions of the target distances, I don't see much change in pace of play.

I agree. Most of the holdup isn't from not having the correct yardage, but picking the right shot based on the circumstances.

[krupa]

Some comments from the pros:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/rangefinder-news-met-mixed-reactions-pros

Quote

“I don’t think it’s going to make any difference to speed of play,” [Justin] Rose said. “We don’t play ‘one number’ golf. We want to know what it is to the back edge of the green; we want to know the distance over a bunker. We want to know what the distance is to a certain slope.

Quote

Jon Rahm had them at his disposal while an amateur at Arizona State, but he believes that laser devices go against “the essence of the game.”

“I used them for four years in college, and I didn’t feel like they had an impact on pace of play one way or the other,” Rahm said.

Quote

One notable supporter of the decision was Bryson DeChambeau, who has never shied away from incorporating analytical tools into his arsenal. Like Rahm, DeChambeau used rangefinders in college and he believes that they could be used by players while caddies simultaneously step off distances using yardage books.

“It’s the best thing they could possibly do,” DeChambeau said. “I definitely think it’s something that could help speed up play.”

 

I tend to agree with Rahm's opinion that they are somehow contrary to the essence of the game.  Not a shocker that The Hat wants to use them.  

[Jack Watson]

I am a bit anti this move to allow range finders and gps.  I think it gives unfair advantage when maybe the tee shot is way off line a fairway over and still the player has a perfect number.  

ive never used a range finder but gps is a huge advantage when you can see how far to clear the bunker or how far to front or back of green.  I don't own one but my playing partners do and I use them when in doubt.  It definitely makes the game easier.  I would say use of distance measuring tech especially on courses you don't play much could account for a lot like several strokes per round.

My experience is it affects pace of play little if at all.

Jmo but part of the penalty for being way out of position is the difficulty in figuring distance for the next shot.  With gps and range finders it's no penalty.  It just encourages this bomb and gouge golf that's so boring.  The old time golfers shot great scores without it so it's not necessary imo.

My general opinion on pro golf is roll back the tech to keep courses relevant.  No rangefinders,  go back to much smaller clubheads and roll back the ball to more spin.  Bring golf back from a distance game to one of control.  Make misses hurt!  

If we don't want that then I think we need a lot of new much longer courses.  I would like to see pros tested more on par fours and fives.  So often it's just blast 300 plus yards and smooth a wedge in there.  Boring!  Coverage is focused a lot on putting.   It's why I can't watch much anymore except the Masters The Open and the US Open.  Beyond that golf is a total bore imo. 

That said the counterpoint is valid too and as Hogan said in his book one day they will be shooting off the tee at the greens.  He was right.

For ams let anything go.

[Wally Fairway]

Are these just measuring devices, or like some will they also give elevation changes?
I haven't paid that close attention to the proposal.

How long before you will see players "shooting" the distance and elevation to see if they can clear some trees?

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, krupa said:

I tend to agree with Rahm's opinion that they are somehow contrary to the essence of the game.  

I still like the old-fashioned method of walking off yardages, and I still use and collect yardage books, but I've succumbed to progress and also use a laser.  I generally agree with Rahm, but there's really no way to hold back progress.  I won't really like the visual, but overall I don't think using DMDs will really change anything significantly

34 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

Are these just measuring devices, or like some will they also give elevation changes?
I haven't paid that close attention to the proposal.

The proposed new rules, and I'm sure the local rule that would be used for the "minor league experiment", will allow only the measurement of distance, not any other factors, including slope or elevation.  What the proposed revision really does is takes the suggested local rule currently included in the rules, and makes it the rule.  Under the proposed system, you'd need a local rule to PROHIBIT the use of DMDs, otherwise they're allowed.

[Divot Master]

How about we permit the use of the measuring devices, and enforce the 45 second shot clock?

[iacas]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:02 AM, DaveP043 said:

I still like the old-fashioned method of walking off yardages, and I still use and collect yardage books, but I've succumbed to progress and also use a laser.  I generally agree with Rahm, but there's really no way to hold back progress.

I don't think your point - or Rahm's - makes any sense.

You can't say that one method - being able to pace things off and look them up in a book, with pin sheets, etc. showing all sorts of things accurately - is within the spirit of the game, but doing so a different (faster) way is against the spirit of the game.

Also, "distance" to objects is common knowledge, and thus not advice.

[jamo]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 9:16 AM, Jack Watson said:

I am a bit anti this move to allow range finders and gps.  I think it gives unfair advantage when maybe the tee shot is way off line a fairway over and still the player has a perfect number.  

ive never used a range finder but gps is a huge advantage when you can see how far to clear the bunker or how far to front or back of green.  I don't own one but my playing partners do and I use them when in doubt.  It definitely makes the game easier.  I would say use of distance measuring tech especially on courses you don't play much could account for a lot like several strokes per round.

My experience is it affects pace of play little if at all.

Jmo but part of the penalty for being way out of position is the difficulty in figuring distance for the next shot.  With gps and range finders it's no penalty.  It just encourages this bomb and gouge golf that's so boring.  The old time golfers shot great scores without it so it's not necessary imo.

My general opinion on pro golf is roll back the tech to keep courses relevant.  No rangefinders,  go back to much smaller clubheads and roll back the ball to more spin.  Bring golf back from a distance game to one of control.  Make misses hurt!  

If we don't want that then I think we need a lot of new much longer courses.  I would like to see pros tested more on par fours and fives.  So often it's just blast 300 plus yards and smooth a wedge in there.  Boring!  Coverage is focused a lot on putting.   It's why I can't watch much anymore except the Masters The Open and the US Open.  Beyond that golf is a total bore imo. 

That said the counterpoint is valid too and as Hogan said in his book one day they will be shooting off the tee at the greens.  He was right.

For ams let anything go.

How is that an unfair advantage?

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, jamo said:

How is that an unfair advantage?

I agree. I don't get how it's an unfair advantage.