Jump to content
Note: This thread is 2636 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

  • Moderator
19 hours ago, David in FL said:

Tried?  I played them for the first 20 years that I played this silly game!

I didn't play persimmon woods for long, maybe 10 years, but proper persimmon was what many of us aspired to own back in the day, as  a step from the laminate clubheads in less expensive sets.  I still have my Cleveland RC85 (see here for a sample photo http://www.clubsofdistinction.com/cod5/ucwd6527.htm) and DG43 3-wood.  They're lovely clubs, but I haven't swung either foe years.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Took a MacGregor Jack Nicklaus VIP to the course, and used it on a short Par 4. Hit a ProV1x, and it felt like a rock. I hit it well, and it probably didn't go as far as my current (Ping G25) three wood.

 


On 6/4/2017 at 9:50 PM, David in FL said:

A country mile was shorter back then....  If you think you hit those persimmons better "back in the day", than you could hit a modern club, let's call it 10 years ago, then I stick to my original statement.  Either option, your choice! :-D 

Jack Nicklaus's average drive was in the 275 yard range.  I'm old, and a relatively short hitter for my handicap, and can still roll one out there 260ish every now and then.  The miracle of modern technology!  

But you said you hit the ball farther now than you did when you were 30! I can't say that! Back in the day I hit those persimmons about 3 hundy! But you're making a false argument. Of course the modern clubs are better and longer. But, we didn't have them back when I played persimmons, so there's no rational basis for comparison! Maybe I could have hit modern drivers 330-350 like the big whoppers of today. God only knows how Nicklaus would have hit them!

These days, if I can pump out a drive 220-230 in the short grass, I'm a happy camper! Beware the hubris of youth! Father Time is out there. Just laying in the weeds waiting to take you in! He is undefeated! Your time will come!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

3 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

But you said you hit the ball farther now than you did when you were 30! I can't say that! Back in the day I hit those persimmons about 3 hundy! But you're making a false argument. Of course the modern clubs are better and longer. But, we didn't have them back when I played persimmons, so there's no rational basis for comparison! Maybe I could have hit modern drivers 330-350 like the big whoppers of today. God only knows how Nicklaus would have hit them!

These days, if I can pump out a drive 220-230 in the short grass, I'm a happy camper! Beware the hubris of youth! Father Time is out there. Just laying in the weeds waiting to take you in! He is undefeated! Your time will come!

Congratulations.  You hit the ball a lot further than Jack Nicklaus in his prime.

  • Upvote 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I question the numbers from back then. They didn't have Shotlink. They didn't have a lot of stuff. Tell me, what was Nicklaus' clubhead speed. His launch angle, spin rate, etc! There's no way to know, since the technology just didn't exist back then. All I could judge by were the yardages on the course. If I was playing a 5 Hundy par 5 and I had 200 in. I figured I hit the drive 3 Hundy!

Jeez! Do you think everybody's on the Tour out here?!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
14 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I question the numbers from back then. They didn't have Shotlink. They didn't have a lot of stuff. Tell me, what was Nicklaus' clubhead speed. His launch angle, spin rate, etc! There's no way to know, since the technology just didn't exist back then.

They could measure distances. Not much technology required there… :-P

And Nicklaus averaged 269.0 in 1980. He was only 40 then.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I used persimmon woods for many years. I picked up golf in the mid 60's, metal woods didn't appear until around 1991. While I wouldn't go back to persimmons, the "crack" of a well  hit solid wood was way more satisfying than the loud ring of a modern metal or carbon fiber hollow wood.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)

When I started out I was given a set of Smith irons and woods.  They were customs made for grandpa.  

Still have the sw leather and all.  

Ive got a couple sets of Mac Gregor m85 woods and a set of old Wilson staff blades I take out sometimes.

The m85 comes out low bullets for me.  They get out there okay.   

They are just golf clubs.  They are not as difficult to play as one who grew up with frying pan drivers might think.  I actually used them exclusively for almost two years.  With driver I tee it low though.  Mac had that tee very high.  I never could do that. 

 

Edited by Jack Watson

I started out playing laminate and then persimmon as I upgraded. Like everyone, I switched to metal in the 90's.  About 8-10 years ago, I picked up a couple of nice Joe Powell persimmons at a pawn shop, and started playing them some, along with a set of Wilson Staff blades from 1979. It became a subset of my golf hobby-playing with "vintage" equipment.  Most of my collection came from thrift stores, averaging around $6-7 per club.  My current "gamers" include a Bert Dargie persimmon driver with a graphite shaft from about 1992, and PING Eye2 laminated maple 3 and 5 woods with the black finish and red inserts.  When I am swinging well, I can play with buddies playing modern clubs, accepting the fact that I will usually be a little behind them on the drive.  I have hit some drives with the persimmon that are close to my drives with modern clubs, but I must be swinging pretty good for me. I actually find the PING laminates to be relatively easy to hit.

 For the last several years, most of my golf has been vintage golf. It is fun; a retrace of my roots, and most satisfying to hear the occasional crack of one well struck.

I recently picked up a Titleist 913D2, though and the forgiveness is addictive.

 

Don

In the bag:

Driver: PING 410 Plus 9 degrees, Alta CB55 S  Fairway: Callaway Rogue 3W PX Even Flow Blue 6.0; Hybrid: Titleist 818H1 21* PX Even Flow Blue 6.0;  Irons: Titleist 718 AP1 5-W2(53*) Shafts- TT AMT Red S300 ; Wedges Vokey SM8 56-10D Putter: Scotty Cameron 2016 Newport 2.5  Ball: Titleist AVX or 2021 ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Here are Rickie's numbers with a persimmons driver...but a modern ball (I would imagine):

 

  • Upvote 1

Fairways and Greens.

Dave
 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The ball is a huge piece of that equation.  The modern ball doesn't even resemble an old tour balata, other than that they're both white (usually) and have dimples...  

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 6/4/2017 at 9:03 PM, David in FL said:

Tried?  I played them for the first 20 years that I played this silly game!

Sorry though, they don't come close to comparing to modern clubs.  At almost 60 years old, I now hit the ball further and more consistently than I did at 30.  Anyone who says different is either lying or age related dementia has finally kicked in...

;-) 

Me too. I used to have a set of blond Tony Pena woods. They were gorgeous. I still have an old Golfcraft  driver (they became part of Titleist back in the late 60s). I'm afraid to try to hit it, but I doubt if I could get it airborne.


(edited)

I am not a stranger to hitting Persimmon as I (and many others here) started out with them. One thing I did get from the above posts are exemplified by the video put up by @mvmac.  They say a picture is worth a thousand words. That is certainly evident in the clip he made. IMO pretty much, picture perfect. (except maybe for the tee height, which he made work anyway).  Just watching it, made me pay attention to the fluidity and smoothness of what a golf swing is supposed to look like and in emulating it, I got immediate results.

note: of course, the first ones were maple laminates lest anyone chimes in to correct me, but I did end up with persimmon eventually.

Edited by Hacker James

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 9:50 PM, David in FL said:

A country mile was shorter back then....  If you think you hit those persimmons better "back in the day", than you could hit a modern club, let's call it 10 years ago, then I stick to my original statement.  Either option, your choice! :-D 

Jack Nicklaus's average drive was in the 275 yard range.  I'm old, and a relatively short hitter for my handicap, and can still roll one out there 260ish every now and then.  The miracle of modern technology!  

I to this day play a mixed bag and I have been playing golf for 31 years there is nothing like hitting a persimmon wood.....my bag is as follows...taylor made rocket blz 4-AW....a modified 1978 Golden Bear 2 iron with graphite shaft....a custom made Calloway modeled 1 iron....a 1950 Walter Hagen 4 wood a 1944 Wilson 4300 3 wood and a 1919 Dundee putter by Spalding........oh and my driver is a modern taylor made SLDR....IMHO some old persimmons perform far better then some hybrid woods....I have found in many cases they are more accurate....the problem people have in this day and age with persimmon clubs is that the modern golfer lacks the ball striking ability to hit them well....todays clubs give far more room for error....and you don't have to be as good a ball striker today as the golfer in persimmon era did....and boy the sound a well struck persimmon makes is like nothing else on earth....I attached a picture of my persimmon 4300 3 wood....I still hit it between 190-220 yards...I Love!!!!!!! persimmon clubs

old persimmon 2.jpg

old persimmon 1.jpg

old persimmon 3.jpg


Had a set of Jack Nicklaus Muirfield persimmon woods back around I think 1984.  Driver was tough to hit but the 3 wood I could hit off the tee plenty far.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 6/6/2017 at 9:02 AM, Midpack said:

I used persimmon woods for many years. I picked up golf in the mid 60's, metal woods didn't appear until around 1991. While I wouldn't go back to persimmons, the "crack" of a well  hit solid wood was way more satisfying than the loud ring of a modern metal or carbon fiber hollow wood.

Indeed! Back in the day the sound of a well struck driver sounded like a rifle shot going off! Even the best "sounding" modern titanium drivers leave a lot to be desired in that realm.

That's just one of the sounds of golf I miss. Like real, high carbon steel spikes crunching in gravel or clacking on concrete!

On 6/6/2017 at 2:46 PM, David in FL said:

The ball is a huge piece of that equation.  The modern ball doesn't even resemble an old tour balata, other than that they're both white (usually) and have dimples...  

Good point! When we played persimmon we were also playing wound balata. A very nice feeling ball when the temps were right. I played mainly Spalding Dots myself. But you had to be careful! A poorly struck bladed iron would ruin a ball!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

45 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Indeed! Back in the day the sound of a well struck driver sounded like a rifle shot going off! Even the best "sounding" modern titanium drivers leave a lot to be desired in that realm.

That's just one of the sounds of golf I miss. Like real, high carbon steel spikes crunching in gravel or clacking on concrete!

Good point! When we played persimmon we were also playing wound balata. A very nice feeling ball when the temps were right. I played mainly Spalding Dots myself. But you had to be careful! A poorly struck bladed iron would ruin a ball!

Nostalgia.......a while back, I was using the oldies frequently to the point that I even went online and bought some wound balls. They were not balata but Titleist DT  Wounds, which are plentiful. As for metal spikes, still a bit of controversy but it has been said they are no more damaging to greens than the so-called soft spikes. My next pair will probably be some of the newer "treads". The clacky sounds in the parking lot, even make the total hackers sound like pros.

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2636 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Day 8: More mirror work on the same stuff; neutral grip / centered turn.
    • Day 224 (13 Dec 24) - Friday men’s group session / teamed up with course greens keeper and his assistant.  Was a very “meh” round as I underplayed the putter more than anything.  Driving was okay, irons were good. Wedges were strong - even had a couple green side pitches rattle the flag and lip out for near miss birdies.  Fun part was we were busy repairing pitch marks - like three to each one we made.  Best lesson was really seeing the course from the perspective of the ones’ who take care of it.  
    • I might describe "engaging the legs at setup" a little differently. I'd say to bend at the ankle a bit more to get the knees more towards the balls of the feet. It actually looks better in your old set-up and wouldn't be the cause of a sway. A sway is when...well it's when you do in the backswing what you are currently doing with your knees/legs in the downswing. When your knees move laterally away from the ball it will cause you to move your center of rotation...your spine... back behind the ball and make it almost impossible to get back to the ball in the downswing. As for your knee action in the downswing, that's causing you to get no benefit of the ground forces and wasting a lot of potential for speed through impact. How should the knees work? Think about jumping straight up with your feet close together. Your ankles bend forward, your knees bend and you push straight up through your pelvis and body. Now stand with your legs apart like in the golf set-up and think about if you wanted to jump to the left. You would still bend both legs the same way but you would push up through your right leg harder than your left and again, you would push up the leg into the pelvis. Now do the same jump to the right. More push up the left leg into the pelvis than with the right. That's what your left leg needs to do through the downswing to use the ground forces. Your left leg will push your left pelvis back and behind you as you come into impact instead of straightening after impact. I hope that makes sense.
    • Your concept of the swing is off. Think of it this way. The club travels in a circle around your spine. The larger the circle the more speed you can achieve. So how do you make the circle bigger? By pulling your hands into the spine or by pushing them away from the spine? What will this fix in your swing? Your collapsed right arm and bent left arm. So, from the beginning of the backswing I would have you feel like both your right arm and left arm are pushing away from your body. Your right arm is collapsing...your right bicep is contracting...feel your right bicep extending as you take the club back. While you're doing this make sure that your right elbow stays pointing to the ground...that is external rotation of the humerus. Think of it as if you are losing an arm wrestling match. The right forearm and right hand rotate behind the elbow. On the downswing you have to maintain the external rotation of the humerus. You have to continue the feeling of losing the arm wresting match while pulling the right elbow around the body. Right now you are slamming you opponents arm to the table with internal rotation which is partly causing your pull. Your left arm isn't externally rotating either...it must...and it should push out away from the spine through the swing as well. Everything you are doing is shrinking your swing circle instead of expanding it. Your set-up will have to change obviously as currently you have the ball positioned where you will hit it only if you pull in and not if you push out. There's more but that should be a good place to start.
    • If your swing is repeatable and give you the distance and ball flight you like and you can score well with it...well...there's absolutely no reason to think you need to change it! Now do I think your swing is the prettiest in the world? No, I don't but I don't like Matt Wolfe's steep take away or Scotty Scheffler's footwork either! Will all 3 of you score better than me day in day out? Probably so!!! All that being said, if you wanted to change anything it looks like your backswing is what looks off while the downswing mostly looks fine. I would suggest trying to implement small changes and not overhaul everything all at once. Two areas I see would be keeping your left arm straight and turning your upper body earlier in the backswing. To straighten the left arm you actually need to think about the right arm. From the beginning of the backswing try to feel both right and left arm pushing the club out away from you. Your right arm does not need to collapse to less than 90 degree angle and in fact should be greater than a 90 degree angle. The more it collapses, the more you will bend your left arm. What causes it to collapse? Either you are pulling in with your right arm contracting your bicep or you are pulling your right shoulder blade back into the center of your back too aggressively. You will need to figure out which you are doing and how much is good and how much is too much. It's difficult to push away with your right bicep AND pull your shoulder blade aggresively across your back so addressing the arm may fix the shoulderblade. Turning the upper body should be an easier fix and may be easy to accomplish with simply thinking about it in different terms. Everybody refers to it as a "shoulder turn". I'd have you think about it as a "chest turn" or even "turning the entire rib cage" in the backswing. The point of it is to make sure your sternum...the center of your chest...is turning back away from the target. Those are the two big areas of your backswing that make your swing look less aesthetically pleasing than others. I hope this helps some!  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...