Vaping is Bad for You

[iacas]

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/16658358/vape-lobby-vaping-health-risks-nicotine-big-tobacco-marketing

Yikes. Plus, popcorn lung, and other sorts of shit like that.

[JetFan1983]

Nicotine's just awful in general as a thing, but I know several people who have had success quitting with Swedish snus. I guess it works like the patch, where you can quit the smoking part of the addiction first (delivering the drug thru the lungs), and then later, you can quit the snus, which is basically just the pure nicotine. 

They knock snus in that article, but it sounds like they're going after the American version, not the more highly regulated Swedish kind. 

It's a shame vaping's not healthy. I have a lot of friends who switched to that, and I was hoping this was a healthy alternative for them. 

 

 

PS- I may not use nicotine, but anyone who wants to fire up a stogie, that's fine with me. For whatever reason, smoke doesn't bother me when we're outside. 

[jsgolfer]

I don't smoke cigarettes but vaping is far safer than cigarettes themselves.

Other views:

Dr. Michael Seigal - Big time SMoking opponent and tobacco expert

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2017-08-31T10:17:00-04:00

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2017/08/its-official-anti-tobacco-groups.html

http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/search?q=Vaping

Edited November 17, 2017 by jsgolfer

[iacas]

Just now, jsgolfer said:

I don't smoke but vaping is far safer than cigarettes themselves.

I think we're starting to see that the word "far" is probably not that accurate. We don't have decade+ long studies on vaping.

[jsgolfer]

Just now, iacas said:

I think we're starting to see that the word "far" is probably not that accurate. We don't have decade+ long studies on vaping.

I guess we'll just have to disagree.  You don't need decades luckily, there are way more chemicals in a cigarette than an e-cigarette.  And the levels are much higher, something like 1500 times.  But I have no skin in the game, I smoke cigars and am fully aware of the risks, if someone wants to quit and an e-cigarette works, more power to them.  Scanning the extremely long article which makes e-cigarettes sound awful, with scary things about flavors kids might like, but menthol cigarettes is far worse flavoring.  The author mentions the e-cigarette my be  50% better, 25% better or the same as smoking but we don't know yet.  Just love the precautionary principle.  The e-cigarette from what I have read is one of the best harm reduction methods there is.  Read the warning label of Chantrix some time, you'd never want anyone to ever use that drug to try and quit smoking.  US cigarette smoking is down around 15%, and has been going down every year since the 70's, with a couple of upticks in in the early 2000's.  

Scientists like myself are often frustrated by "denialists" who refuse to acknowledge global warming, disseminate false information about adverse effects of vaccines, or - historically - failed to acknowledge the severe health effects of cigarette smoking. But I never expected this denialism to be coming from within my own movement in public health.

Today, it appears that the American Heart Association is still taking a public denialist stance with regards to the health benefits of quitting smoking by switching to vaping. Despite overwhelming scientific evidence that vaping is much safer than smoking and that quitting smoking by switching to electronic cigarettes has dramatic and immediate health benefits, the American Heart Association is still clinging to the false message that smoking may be no safer than vaping.

According to an article appearing today in The Daily Mail:

"Dr Aruni Bhatnagar, director of the American Heart Association's Tobacco Research and Addiction Center, added: 'We just don't know if moving to e-cigarettes is good enough to reduce the harm.'"

As the Daily Mail is not necessarily a trustworthy source (note the headline that a single e-cigarette can potentially lead to a heart attack), I confirmed this quote with other sources. The same quoteappeared in the San Diego Union-Tribune two weeks ago. It seems clear that the American Heart Association, through its Tobacco Research and Addiction Center, is still clinging to the belief that smoking may be no more hazardous than vaping. Furthermore, the American Heart Association is disseminating this false information to the public.

The Rest of the Story

The American Heart Association's claim that quitting smoking by switching to electronic cigarettes does not reduce the harm of cigarette smoking flies in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence that switching from smoking to vaping leads to an immediate improvement in respiratory symptoms and improves lung function. Improvement in spirometry measurements was observed even in dual users, but was most substantial in smokers who switched completely to e-cigarettes. Remarkably, respiratory symptoms improved in patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) who switched to electronic cigarettes.

 

The American Heart Association's claim is not only false, but it is potentially damaging. If smokers believe this false information, they may decide that there is no reason to quit smoking using e-cigarettes. Or, even worse, ex-smokers who quit using e-cigarettes may return to smoking. After all, if it is not clear that vaping reduces harm compared to smoking, then what's the point of vaping? You might as well enjoy the real thing.-Dr. Siegel

 

Dr. Siegel is a Professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health. He has 32 years of experience in the field of tobacco control. He previously spent two years working at the Office on Smoking and Health at CDC, where he conducted research on secondhand smoke and cigarette advertising. He has published nearly 70 papers related to tobacco. He testified in the landmark Engle lawsuit against the tobacco companies, whi

 

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Not something we have to disagree on. Facts will be facts eventually, as we have more time to study the long-time effects.

The only real opinion is how you happen to define "far".

19 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

You don't need decades luckily, there are way more chemicals in a cigarette than an e-cigarette.

The quantity may not matter. The actual chemicals may. Never mind that breathing in vapors can cause popcorn lung, COPD, etc.

19 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

The e-cigarette from what I have read is one of the best harm reduction methods there is.

Of course you know what's really "harm reducing"? Not doing either.

19 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

US cigarette smoking is down around 15%, and has been going down every year since the 70's, with a couple of upticks in in the early 2000's.  

Frankly, I'm not sure how anyone with an IQ north of 70 smokes cigarettes (I can kinda understand an occasional cigar). Nor an IQ north of 85 vapes.

---

I'm not positioning this as a "it's better than smoking" or "it's no better than smoking." I don't care about smoking cigarettes, really.

I'm positioning it independent of smoking. I'm positioning it as "it's really bad for you." Lots of people - kids especially - are getting into vaping when they wouldn't otherwise get into smoking. 7th graders, even, are vaping. It's becoming a big problem.

[jsgolfer]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

The quantity may not matter. The actual chemicals may. Never mind that breathing in vapors can cause popcorn lung, COPD, etc.

The dose does make a difference.  

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2016/08/hiding-truth-from-public-american-lung.html

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Of course you know what's really "harm reducing"? Not doing either.

Unfortunately lots of people do things which are a risk (walk out your door and jump in a vehicle every day). 

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

Frankly, I'm not sure how anyone with an IQ north of 70 smokes cigarettes (I can kinda understand an occasional cigar). Nor an IQ north of 85 vapes.

 Perhaps there are some people who enjoy it, despite the risks.  Cigars do it for me, lots of people I know chew, which I don't particularly care for, but their life. 

[iacas]

Just now, jsgolfer said:

The dose does make a difference.

I'm being brief, and in doing so, being misunderstood.

If one thing has 500mg of 10 chemicals, and another has 5mg of only 3 chemicals… that sounds bad, unless the three chemicals are much worse. The dose doesn't always matter. Sometimes the actual chemicals matter.

And again, I'm not comparing vaping to cigarettes. It's a straw man.

1 minute ago, jsgolfer said:

Unfortunately lots of people do things which are a risk (walk out your door and jump in a vehicle every day).

 C'mon.

1 minute ago, jsgolfer said:

 Perhaps there are some people who enjoy it, despite the risks.  Cigars do it for me, lots of people I know chew, which I don't particularly care for, but their life. 

Not a ton of seventh and eighth graders are chewing or smoking cigars.

[onthehunt526]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I'm being brief, and in doing so, being misunderstood.

If one thing has 500mg of 10 chemicals, and another has 5mg of only 3 chemicals… that sounds bad, unless the three chemicals are much worse. The dose doesn't always matter. Sometimes the actual chemicals matter.

And again, I'm not comparing vaping to cigarettes. It's a straw man.

 C'mon.

Not a ton of seventh and eighth graders are chewing or smoking cigars.

It only takes one drop of pure nicotine to kill you. Try that on for size. Yes 7th and 8th graders are probably vaping, over chewing tobacco, and smoking cigars.

I hope that my kids never start smoking, vaping, chewing, or whatever. Vaping is definitely somewhat safer than smoking cigarettes. But both of them will kill you... Both of them will lead you to more susceptible to bronchitis, pneumonia, and upper respiratory infections. 

I know none of it is good for you. But for a few years in my late teens and early 20s, I honestly didn't give a shit, and was smoking upwards of a pack and a half a day. It sucked. It still does. You think you can get off of the nicotine easily, you can't. Once it grabs you, that's it, you can't easily get off it.

How does a person with a IQ north of 70, smoke? Or an IQ north of 85, vape? Curiosity. They try it once or twice... Then they get hooked, and can't get off. 

Something with the nicotine and the receptors in the brain, to make the receptors happy, they "need" nicotine. 

[RussUK]

The one thing i noticed with vaping (im a non smoker myself, but have friends that vape) is that for a lot of people who switched from smoking to vaping, their nicotine intake actually increased.

When they smoked they wouldnt smoke in the house but with vaping they can. I know people who just cant stop vaping. Sure, it doesnt have the same toxic crap that cigarettes have but im not sure how effective they are for quitting if people still dont have will power. If they the guys i know used them like when they smoked, i.e. go outside, they would be using it far less thus increasing the effectivness. Everyone is different i might add, but im sure many vapers overuse now they dont have to leave the house to smoke (providing they were'nt allowed to smoke in the house)

[Fourputt]

Another point that the pro-vape sect seems to ignore is that nicotine itself negatively affects the cardiovascular system.  Making an addiction promoting product available without regulation that is attractive to, and easily obtainable by kids is a bad thing.  I don't care how they try to sugar coat it, making it available in fruit and candy flavors is just adding to the temptation.

[Antneye]

The question is not whether e-cigs are safer than regulard cigarettes.  It is whether vaping is safe.  Kids are vaping like crazy, my son included, and we should be pouring money into research before we have another generation addicted and dying of cancer or some other disease.

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, Antneye said:

The question is not whether e-cigs are safer than regulard cigarettes.  It is whether vaping is safe.  Kids are vaping like crazy, my son included, and we should be pouring money into research before we have another generation addicted and dying of cancer or some other disease.

Yup. That's what I'm sayin'.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at the number of kids vaping. Young kids, too.

Partly because they think it's "safe."

[saevel25]

This is what really ticks me off.

Quote

He also shared evidence that “fun” candy-flavored e-cigarettes attract kids, just as flavored cigarettes did, and that, because labels often misrepresent nicotine levels in the devices, even kids who think they’re vaping only flavors could be inhaling nicotine

Maybe kids should not be allowed to buy Vaping products because the labels are misleading and they do not have the wherewithal to safely make a correct purchase.

 

[nevets88]

Bathroom in a coffee shop in Brooklyn

[dennyjones]

Reviving an older thread.    

I sat in an auditorium at school to listen to a presentation from the Michigan State Police regarding vaping.   Not only is it more addictive than cigarettes but people are falsely believing it is safer because it has fewer chemicals.  It's no wonder that Juul initially targeted kids with flavor e-cigarettes.   It's no wonder that they have been forced to change their advertising policy.

A good video:

 

[saevel25]

I am almost ready to call out the idiots who use those things in a crowded place like a bar. This woman was sitting at this bar, and she was purposely just spewing the water vapor out over everyone. People are drinking and eating there. How disgusting is that!

[billchao]

52 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I am almost ready to call out the idiots who use those things in a crowded place like a bar. This woman was sitting at this bar, and she was purposely just spewing the water vapor out over everyone. People are drinking and eating there. How disgusting is that!

In NJ and NY use of electronic smoking devices are included in the legal definition of smoking and thus is prohibited wherever smoking is prohibited.