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Par 5 Strategy in a Mike Malaska Video... Do you agree?


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Do you agree with Milaska's par5 suggestion?  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you agree with Milaska's par5 suggestion?

    • Yes
      2
    • No
      17
    • Has merit, but still a hole-by-hole decision
      11


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@GST1974-Make a video of you putting 10 putts from around a hole from ten feet.-No tricks like funnels or a larger hole or anything.

Just do it authentic and post the video here.-10 putts from 10' in a row. Shut these people up if you are that good a putter. Let us see it.


On the topic-the driver is the single biggest weapon in the bag if used well.

If you are gonna hit it into trouble do not hit it.-But if you are only going to hit it into trouble a small percentage of the time hit it and get near or on in two.

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"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

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  On 12/1/2017 at 4:16 AM, GST1974 said:

I don't think its that simple.  Golf is much more than just having a decent swing.  I have to learn the specialty shots more like knockdowns, bigger fades and draws, playing from bad lies, managing the rough better, etc.

But I think I will definitely get it into single digits soon, within a few years, by working on my weak points.

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From what you've told us, I think prioritization is your weak point; you should consider working on that.  

  On 11/30/2017 at 11:44 PM, mdl said:

I think the grain of truth in the OP quoted advice is that the cost of putting away the driver on a par 5 is potentially lower than on a par 4.  Say you're a ton more accurate with your 2/3 hybrid than with your driver.  On a mid length par 4, going driver to 3h might mean hitting 8i-PW for your approach to hitting 4i-6i.  That's going to pretty dramatically hurt your expected score.  Now consider a mid length par 5 where driver-3h, both hit well, gets you to 40 yards out.  But 3h-3h puts you 100 yards out.  I'd argue that while yes I totally agree that the whole thing about, pick a full swing wedge distance to lay up to, it's better than being closer, is laughably, provably false, the cost of going from 40 to 100 yards out is not nearly as large as going from 130 to 190 yards out.

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I think this makes a lot of sense;  thanks.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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I think the LSW way of thinking is much better. The data is pretty clear that the closer you get the better, but you have to take your shot zone into account to avoid causing too much damage to your score with shots that don't turn out as intended. There are also a lot of details lost in generalization. I've always been more accurate with my 3-wood than the driver, but I go long as often ad I can. The main problem with going long is inconsistencies. If 5/10 drives ends up way off line, you might be better off hitting irons off the tee, but the key is to know your shot zone and misses. I've had periods where I almost never missed left with my driver and could really go after it, which led to my best scoring ever. In periods where the driver can go both ways and more often way off line than on the short grass, my shot zone isn't good enough to take the risk.

Combined with equipment like Game Golf and Mevo, you can build up a database of your shot zones to help you strategize better on the course.

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  On 12/1/2017 at 3:59 AM, iacas said:

Like I said, a unicorn.

  • You hit 1-irons well.
  • You hold the greens with 3-irons, or at least 5-irons.
  • You make almost every putt from 10' and in.
  • You lose all your strokes with your woods.
  • You struggle to break 100.

Yeah, no. Since you don't care, though, I'm done talking about it.

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It amazes me that some people can't handle disagreement and that everyone has LSW in their profile and that everyone here thinks a certain way.  It's almost like this site exists to push books and gadgets in a dishonest way.  Quite honestly, I don't need the aggrivation of getting attacked and ridiculed, especially by the administrator of the site that should be acting as a moderator breaking up fights.  This experience is definitely a first for me. 

Yes I struggle to break 100 sometimes, but I have only played less than 20 rounds overall and my score has fluctuated between 105 to 80.  The rounds I have done the best on where when I didn't try for too much off the tee which then puts me in a disadvantageous position for the rest of my shots.  It's to be expected that beginners and intermediate players will some have wild tee shots and mishits from various positions on the course, especially on the difficult holes.  Even advanced players and pros have bad days.  What I need is to keep learning and become consistent, not try to be a tiger woods.

Anyway I just wanted to embarrass those that attacked me, calling me a unicorn and their puppet posters that follow up with additional ridicule of their own, in bad faith which was uncalled for.  I never attacked a single poster on this site before that happened.  I am going to find a better site like golfwrx where people are not rude blowhards.:mad:


I think it's beneficial to try to advance the ball as far as possible. The issue is, as soon as you stop using a driver, it requires the golfer to hit longer irons for their approach shots, and even lay ups.

On a 450 yard hole, with a golfer who hits the ball 225 yards. They are left with the following from the hole on their drive + 2nd shot;

Driver + 8 iron = 105 from green
Hybrid + Hybrid = 105 from green
Driver + Hybrid = 50 yards from green

Two really good hybrid shots get them the same distance from the green as a Driver + 8 iron. Driver + 8 iron is probably a layup shot from the rough. Driver + hybrid gets them pretty close if they end up in the fairway. Heck, even a punch out shot with a 5 iron can go 110-115 yards. That can get them to 110 yards from the green. Even if they are in a typical tough shot they have a shot at getting as close as a hybrid + hybrid.

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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  On 12/1/2017 at 3:59 AM, iacas said:

Like I said, a unicorn.

  • You hit 1-irons well.
  • You hold the greens with 3-irons, or at least 5-irons.
  • You make almost every putt from 10' and in.
  • You lose all your strokes with your woods.
  • You struggle to break 100.

Yeah, no. Since you don't care, though, I'm done talking about it.

Expand  

He's obviously not playing the same game as many of us on TST. Many high handicaps roll the ball in to the greens, and misjudge the actual distances. They're usually just happy to be on the green after a harrowing experience getting there.

 

  On 12/1/2017 at 3:32 AM, Vinsk said:

This, and you're a high handicapper? Not sure I believe you do this as often nor as easy as you think. Just saying...

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To be fair, I doubt he knows a good strike. He's not hitting what we consider a full swing onto greens with his irons.

 

  On 12/1/2017 at 3:42 AM, GST1974 said:

I don't have a problem with any iron.  I have even shot 1 irons pretty decent on the range, but I rarely use it on the course.  All my problems are with the woods, unless the ball is teed up and I make 2 clock swing.  If the ball is on the ground, that is pretty bad news.  The hard part of using long irons is figuring out the carry and roll, so as to not go past the green with the roll, especially if the greens are firm.

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Like others, I doubt you fully understand a good strike with your irons. Most of the people on this site are aware of what it means to hit a decent strike. We don't consider carrying 135 yards with a 15 yard high shot that rolls 40 yards onto the green a good shot, only a good result.

It's also doubtful that you make almost all of your 10 foot putts. You think you can make them if you put more effort into them, but in reality you can't. No one can.

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(edited)

I voted number three.  However my thinking is always use Driver whenever I can.  

If I personally am going to play for safety control off the tee it will be five iron or hybrid.  

I get what Malaska is saying but if you get a lot of penalties hitting driver you need to work on your swing imo.

@GST1974

Ive never seen someone who is a good striker that might shoot over a hundred.  

 

Edited by Jack Watson

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  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

It amazes me that some people can't handle disagreement and that everyone has LSW in their profile and that everyone here thinks a certain way.

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LSW isn't a matter of thinking a "certain way." The "way" varies depending on the hole and your game. LSW teaches you - everyone - how to play THEIR game on THAT hole THAT day, whatever any of those are.

For example, for you, it would tell you to never hit a wood, because you're a unicorn who can putt better than anyone ever has in history, get up and down better than a PGA Tour player, hit 1-irons that nobody hits anymore really well, and still struggle to break 100 solely because of your woods. You'd be a single digit golfer overnight.

Hey, I'm the first person who will listen to any disagreements you might have with LSW. Please, lay 'em on me. Let's hear it.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

It's almost like this site exists to push books and gadgets in a dishonest way.

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Not in the slightest. The vast, vast majority of topics here don't even touch on anything related to LSW. But this one? It's about GamePlanning and strategy. It's what over 1/3 of the book is about.

And there's nothing dishonest here. I'm the author of LSW. I stand to make almost enough for a Starbucks coffee if you buy a book. It's not going to change my life, but it may change your golf game for the better.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

Quite honestly, I don't need the aggrivation of getting attacked and ridiculed, especially by the administrator of the site that should be acting as a moderator breaking up fights. This experience is definitely a first for me.

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Nobody's fighting here. :-) I'm simply saying I don't believe you. I'm sorry you felt attacked. That's not the purpose. As you get further into the game, I think you'll come to understand and realize why nobody here believes you. It's simply not possible. I don't make even half of my ten-footers, and I'm a +1. I could break 80 playing from some relatively long tees with just a 7-iron, and you stripe all of your irons but struggle to break 100? It's just not believable. Something is missing in this equation.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

Yes I struggle to break 100 sometimes, but I have only played less than 20 rounds overall and my score has fluctuated between 105 to 80.

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Ah, so now we have more details. Unfortunately, this makes it even less likely that you make all of your putts from ten feet and in or that you stripe your irons or are a good bunker player.

One of the hardest truths in golf is that you really have to be honest with yourself. You have to be able to detach yourself from your scores and take a good hard look at your abilities.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

Even advanced players and pros have bad days.

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It's not about that. You're making claims that are simply unbelievable. You're not being honest about your game, and you're not being honest with us. I don't think you're doing it malevolently or even really intentionally… but you're being dishonest all the same.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

Anyway I just wanted to embarrass those that attacked me, calling me a unicorn and their puppet posters that follow up with additional ridicule of their own, in bad faith which was uncalled for.

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I'm not embarrassed. You're a unicorn if those things are accurate; you don't exist. You're a fairy tale. A myth. Because if that stuff was accurate, you'd be a single digit golfer. Golfers don't pure their irons and struggle so badly with their woods that they struggle to break 100. New golfers - hell, PGA Tour players - don't make all their putts from 10' and in. As I pointed out to you, they make 50% from 8'. And trust me, they're trying to make them… and have millions of reasons to try.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

I am going to find a better site like golfwrx where people are not rude blowhards.:mad:

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Ha! Yes, please, go tell them your stats. You'll be greeted SOOOOO warmly there. They'll all believe you.

Bye bye.

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  On 12/1/2017 at 2:49 PM, Jack Watson said:

I voted number three.  However my thinking is always use Driver whenever I can.  

If I personally am going to play for safety control off the tee it will be five iron or hybrid.  

I get what Malaska is saying but if you get a lot of penalties hitting driver you need to work on your swing imo.

@GST1974

Ive never seen someone who is a good striker that might shoot over a hundred.  

 

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It's called being very inconsistent due to lack of experience.  Shoot par on some, boogies on some, double bogey or worse on some, a rare birdie or two.  How is that hard to understand?!


  On 12/1/2017 at 3:10 PM, GST1974 said:

It's called being very inconsistent due to lack of experience.  Shoot par on some, boogies on some, double bogey or worse on some, a rare birdie or two.  How is that hard to understand?!

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@GST1974-Please tell us what you mean by good ballstriker?

And then please post a video here of you hitting ten ten-footers from around a regular hole.-I will be the first and second loudest only to you in shoving it in their faces if you make even eight of them. Go ahead-Shut them all up and post that video and one of your swing.

You have this site all backward-Buddy. Go to GolfWRx and they will just ignore you there.-Here everyone cares. The guy calling you a unicorn has spent more time helping people for free here than I have in my entire career. They care.They know that conning yourself is not the way to get better at tthis game.-See-There is a topic about it here:

Please post the video and shut them up.-I will be your loudest fan. First take, continuous recording, ten footers from around the hole.

Post a video of you hitting multiple iron swings in a row and puring them all.

But if you fail-As you surely will-to make ten, nine, or even eight-Or you do not hit them all very solid-You must simply say that you were wrong and your eyes ears and mind are more open now.

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"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

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@GST1974 Don't take it as being attacked. I would suggest you maybe keep stats for your next few rounds and see what they tell you about your game, because what you are saying about your game is impossible. You are either being dishonest to us, yourself, or probably both. The problem with that is you will not improve until you can honestly look at your game. I have been playing golf for 24 years, the last 15+ of them as a scratch player and have worked at golf courses for over 20 years. The game you describe doesn't exist because it can't exist, not in the real world.

 

I have been a member of this site for 12 years. No one on here wants to beat you up, but you have to realize the membership, for the most part, is quite knowledgable and is quick to call a spade a spade if you will. I would suggest to you to take the FREE advise and use it to improve your game. The ideas in LSW fly in the face of conventional golf wisdom, but that doesn't make them wrong. If you are open to new ideas I guarantee this site can make you a better player, if your close minded maybe golfWRX is where you belong.

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  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

It amazes me that some people can't handle disagreement and that everyone has LSW in their profile and that everyone here thinks a certain way.

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Not accepting wrong information doesn't mean someone can't handle disagreement. Being skeptical of outrageous claims doesn't mean a person can't handle disagreement.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

It's almost like this site exists to push books and gadgets in a dishonest way. 

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Clearly you haven't been around this website long enough if you think there is anything dishonest with this site.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

Quite honestly, I don't need the aggrivation of getting attacked and ridiculed, especially by the administrator of the site that should be acting as a moderator breaking up fights.  This experience is definitely a first for me. 

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Pointing out weakness in claims is not attacking a poster. If that poster can not handle constructive criticism then that is on them. It isn't good to post for the sake of confirmation bias. That is no way to learn.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

It's to be expected that beginners and intermediate players will some have wild tee shots and mishits from various positions on the course, especially on the difficult holes. 

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They will have wild every shot. I've seen them skull wedges, top irons, blast putts 10 ft past the hole, etc.. A bad golfer is primarily bad at ball striking, which includes all full swing shots. It is the most difficult golf move to make, and it is the one bad golfers struggle with the most. 

Making claims that someone is really good with irons and really bad with the driver is a big stretch.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

What I need is to keep learning and become consistent, not try to be a tiger woods.

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No one said try to be Tiger Woods.

 

 

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(edited)

@NM Golfpretty much hit the nail on the head. Im not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the finer points of golf but i have had nothing but positive help and friendly advice (emphasis on the friendly).

@iacas just calls it as he see's it and if he thinks he can help you he just goes for it and get straight to the point, so dont take it as any form of attack. All the pro's and instructors on here are passionate about helping people improve, especially the higher handicappers (like myself).

Right, i'll stop massaging Erik's ego now ;-)

Edited by RussUK

Russ, from "sunny" Yorkshire = :-( 

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(edited)

It's situational.  I don't have a 3w but I'm more likely to be in the fairway with my 4w than my driver... there is no question in my mind about that (fairways hit, 51% vs 44%), I'm more accurate with my 4w (probably because it has more loft and goes shorter).  Even still, I hit driver probably about 8 out of 10 times on both par 4s and par 5s.

They have recently made the rough high and fairways narrow at Torrey Pines in preparation of the PGA Tournament.  For me, landing in the rough cost me at least a stroke.  I went to my 4w a lot more often on my recent round in those conditions.  The rough was pretty ridiculous, they even announced a free drop in the rough as a temporary course rule when you couldn't find your ball in the rough which was about 1/2 the time with our entire group looking.  Hitting out of the rough for me was a wedge shot in an attempt to just get back on the fairway.  Everyone in my group agreed that they wouldn't play there again until after the Tournament and after the rough was cut back down.  Given it is a public course it is pretty disapointing that they have these conditions already... two months before the tournament.

Edited by No Mulligans
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  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

It amazes me that some people can't handle disagreement... [snip]

Even advanced players and pros have bad days.  What I need is to keep learning and become consistent, not try to be a tiger woods.

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Look, you can go and be a snowflake all you want, and if your goal is to brag online about things that are fake, please make them more believable, such as telling us you're Batman.  But let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you actually believe what you're saying.  Not that it represents reality, simply your view of it.  If your goal is to improve at golf, go and evaluate your own abilities for real and see if your iron shots aimed at greens actually tend to hit and hold... or even end up within 30 yards of the green more often than not.  Evaluate how many putts you really make from 10'.  Because you're claiming to, as a beginner, be better in many aspects than top professionals, better than Tiger Woods was at his prime, better than Jack Nicklaus was at his prime.  Do you see why this is unbelievable?

It isn't that we can't handle disagreement, it's that you can't handle being called out on your hallucinations.

Here's the next thing you should realize:  your golf game probably is consistent at this point.  Your goal should be to move the consistency to better.  Heck, you even described your game as consistent the whole time.

  On 12/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, GST1974 said:

Anyway I just wanted to embarrass those that attacked me, calling me a unicorn and their puppet posters that follow up with additional ridicule of their own, in bad faith which was uncalled for.  I never attacked a single poster on this site before that happened.  I am going to find a better site like golfwrx where people are not rude blowhards.:mad:

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Ah, an astroturfed advertisement for another golf forum, got it.  None of the regulars here were embarrassed by your comments, by the way. 

  On 12/1/2017 at 3:10 PM, GST1974 said:

It's called being very inconsistent due to lack of experience.  Shoot par on some, boogies on some, double bogey or worse on some, a rare birdie or two.  How is that hard to understand?!

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Do Tiger and Phil and Sergio make par on some, boogies [sic] on some, and double bogey or worse on some because they're inconsistent and have a lack of golf experience? 

  On 12/1/2017 at 3:23 PM, Phil McGleno said:

And then please post a video here of you hitting ten ten-footers from around a regular hole.-I will be the first and second loudest only to you in shoving it in their faces if you make even eight of them. Go ahead-Shut them all up and post that video and one of your swing..

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I can vouch that Phil would love to shove it in our faces if you actually do make 80% or more of your ten-footers in an uncut video.  We don't even see the takes you cut out, so you can keep filming until you get it. 

  On 12/1/2017 at 4:05 PM, saevel25 said:

No one said try to be Tiger Woods.

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But that song...

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  On 11/30/2017 at 6:03 PM, Lihu said:

 

They both ended up using driver anyway. So much for their "strategy". . . :-P

 

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Did anyone find it curious that "BE BETTER GOLF" ended up outside the bunker at 270+ yards when they got to his first shot and didn't end up in the water? He pulled that shot straight towards the bunker, and if he carried the bunker with a 270 yard carry, he would have ended up in the water. The shot looked like it would end up in the bunker, unless the bunker was so hard it rolled out?

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  On 12/1/2017 at 6:17 PM, Lihu said:

Did anyone find it curious that "BE BETTER GOLF" ended up outside the bunker at 270+ yards when they got to his first shot and didn't end up in the water? He pulled that shot straight towards the bunker, and if he carried the bunker with a 270 yard carry, he would have ended up in the water. The shot looked like it would end up in the bunker, unless the bunker was so hard it rolled out?

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I really can find nothing to add about the strategy, but videos such as these often times have some little bits of value content. One thing I was reminded of was in his demonstration of "feeling" the shot and how different players react afterwards. The more accomplished golfer will do a "what should have been" practice swing after his errant shot as opposed to the negativity of the others. I found (or more accurately - remembered), that to take a results orientated practice swing in a set up routine can reap rewards. Even though I put in a lot of "net" practice, I try to visualize on a distant tree or mountain top instead of too much focus on the ball itself and more often than not, results in a solid impact with relatively easy effort. Relaxed timing for lack of a better feel/word.  Nothing new here of course, but it does not hurt to remind one's self from time to time. 

"James"

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  On 12/4/2017 at 10:34 PM, Hacker James said:

I really can find nothing to add about the strategy, but videos such as these often times have some little bits of value content. One thing I was reminded of was in his demonstration of "feeling" the shot and how different players react afterwards. The more accomplished golfer will do a "what should have been" practice swing after his errant shot as opposed to the negativity of the others. I found (or more accurately - remembered), that to take a results orientated practice swing in a set up routine can reap rewards. Even though I put in a lot of "net" practice, I try to visualize on a distant tree or mountain top instead of too much focus on the ball itself and more often than not, results in a solid impact with relatively easy effort. Relaxed timing for lack of a better feel/word.  Nothing new here of course, but it does not hurt to remind one's self from time to time. 

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Ive read before of golfers that could benefit from thinking less of the ball and instead of external things like targets or how the clubheqd moves.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

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