Is Joe LaCava Tiger's Best Choice of Caddie?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, 3jacker said:

Why would they lie?
Why would TW lie?
Guess you can choose to believe which you want. TWs behavior certainly supports the contention.  It's not all made up, you know.

I’ve talked to and know former coaches and caddies. It’s not a universal opinion.

Why would Haney lie? Stevie? They have reasons. Not saying they did but they have reasons why they could.

[Valleygolfer]

2 hours ago, 3jacker said:

Why would they lie?
Why would TW lie?
Guess you can choose to believe which you want. TWs behavior certainly supports the contention.  It's not all made up, you know.

You are either particularly naïve or playing stupid...  It's hard to tell which because you haven't seemed naïve in past comments... so I will have to go with the latter.

[3jacker]

It goes to who do you give the benefit of the doubt to?

Tiger, or Stevie?

And why?

[iacas]

3 hours ago, 3jacker said:

It goes to who do you give the benefit of the doubt to?

No, it doesn't.

I give the benefit of the doubt to the people - former coaches and caddies - with whom I've spoken who have not said those things.

[Dornenglanz]

I voted yes.  People change, and mellow with age and experience.  Egos dwindle.  Sometimes what worked for a person some years ago would be all wrong for them now.  I sense a calmer, more together person, and the presence of a non-confrontational, loyal, and tremendously experienced person feels like a good plan.

[Bucki1968]

Not sure how many of you get Golf Digest but in last month's issue there was a good article about being a caddie on tour. The veteran caddies were essentially stating that the new caddies are basically just a bunch of "yes men" who want to keep their jobs. Technology has made their jobs much easier so pulling clubs and reading putts isn't the required skill it used to be. And let's face it....many caddies are making some big bucks. I would love to carry Justin Thomas's bag for a couple years (or any of the other top 100 players).

[Vinsk]

56 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

Not sure how many of you get Golf Digest but in last month's issue there was a good article about being a caddie on tour. The veteran caddies were essentially stating that the new caddies are basically just a bunch of "yes men" who want to keep their jobs. Technology has made their jobs much easier so pulling clubs and reading putts isn't the required skill it used to be. And let's face it....many caddies are making some big bucks. I would love to carry Justin Thomas's bag for a couple years (or any of the other top 100 players).

I’m not sure I agree with that. What ‘technology’ are pros using on the green to help them read the putt? Aim point ? Still a skill one has to learn. Pulling clubs? Still have to make the best decision based on your pros ‘patterns’ for the day that he may not see.  Sometimes  good caddies see something the player doesn’t and that’s when they can save the shot or even the round. I don’t think technology is really changing any of that on the course at least.

[rehmwa]

3 hours ago, Bucki1968 said:

The veteran caddies were essentially stating that the new caddies are basically just a bunch of "yes men" who want to keep their jobs.

Pick any industry, particularly any blue collar industry and this is pretty much the mantra.  I bet they had to carry the clubs uphill in a snowstorm - both ways too.

Wait for the article next month where a bunch of new caddies put forth statements about how all the old timers are out of touch with today's state of the game.

then we're full circle

Edited May 15, 2018 by rehmwa

[Bucki1968]

23 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I’m not sure I agree with that. What ‘technology’ are pros using on the green to help them read the putt? Aim point ? Still a skill one has to learn. Pulling clubs? Still have to make the best decision based on your pros ‘patterns’ for the day that he may not see.  Sometimes  good caddies see something the player doesn’t and that’s when they can save the shot or even the round. I don’t think technology is really changing any of that on the course at least.

I think what the "veteran caddies" are referring to was the use of range finders (that show slope etc.) and the yardage books that have already been created over the years. I do agree with you about being able to see something that your player may not as far as being swing related. It seems like caddies these days are almost as much psychologist as they are a "looper".

[ChrisP]

I liked Tiger/Stevie together. Just had that chemistry together that seemed to work really well. Don’t know much about Tiger/Joe chem. It looks good but I just don’t get that same vibe I did from Tiger/Stevie. Miss that pairing.

[Valleygolfer]

29 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

I liked Tiger/Stevie together. Just had that chemistry together that seemed to work really well. Don’t know much about Tiger/Joe chem. It looks good but I just don’t get that same vibe I did from Tiger/Stevie. Miss that pairing.

Maybe but Stevie is a loud mouth so he let you know it. I mean how many caddies do we ever really hear from?

[DougE]

I know LaCava personally. We aren't buddies or anything, but I have played golf with him a couple times at his favorite course in CT, where he lives one town over in Southbury. (I was a member there for 8 years.) He's a nice guy, but not a dominant, highly opinionated guy, like Steve Williams seems to be. Joe is just like one of the guys when he hangs out in the club bar watching sports after his round. He doesn't talk much about Tiger. He does not act as if he thinks he is special because he is on Tiger's bag.

That said, personally, being a huge Tiger fan, I would like to see Joe more in control of the Big Cat when they are on the course together. The old Bones McKay/Phil Mickelson approach instead of a "Whatever you say, Boss" approach might be a good thing for Tiger, who is a guy who thinks he knows everything there is to know about golf, but has proven he sometimes makes stupid course management mistakes.

Again, I like Joe. He seems to be a nice guy, from what little time I have spent around him in CT. But I have never seen him fire up his player or lead him in a different direction when he sees Tiger taking the wrong path. Maybe that's what Tiger wants, but I believe he needs much more than that.

BTW, Joe has a decent game. About a 4 or 5 handicap.

[Valleygolfer]

Thanks for the insight @DougE

[MSchott]

Show up, keep up, shut up has been the caddy creed. Of course even Angelo Arguella, Jack's long time caddy did more than that but their job is not to be a therapist. They give yardages and clubs. I trust Tiger's judgement in caddies. LaCava is one of the greats.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, MSchott said:

Show up, keep up, shut up has been the caddy creed. Of course even Angelo Arguella, Jack's long time caddy did more than that but their job is not to be a therapist. They give yardages and clubs.

They do a lot more than "give yardages and clubs."

Stevie is one of the greats, and he did a lot more than that. Even Herman Mitchell (Trevino's caddie) would do more than "show up, keep up, shut up."

That's the credo for a caddie looking to do the minimum proficiently. It's not the entire job description for a PGA Tour level caddie, let alone one who has a major winner's bag. Spieth's caddie does more. Bones did more. Etc.

[MSchott]

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

They do a lot more than "give yardages and clubs."

Stevie is one of the greats, and he did a lot more than that. Even Herman Mitchell (Trevino's caddie) would do more than "show up, keep up, shut up."

That's the credo for a caddie looking to do the minimum proficiently. It's not the entire job description for a PGA Tour level caddie, let alone one who has a major winner's bag. Spieth's caddie does more. Bones did more. Etc.

I think the point is that caddies should be inconspicuous. Stevie is definitely not that. The golfer is the star not the caddie. It's the same reason Tiger fired Fluff Cowan. Jack Nicklaus said last week that he thinks players count far too much on caddies these days. Maybe he's out of touch with the modern game but back to the point of this thread, LaCava is known as a great caddie.

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, MSchott said:

I think the point is that caddies should be inconspicuous.

Says who?

8 minutes ago, MSchott said:

Stevie is definitely not that.

And Tiger had great success with Stevie. He's had limited success with Joey… and made mistakes that you didn't often see him making with Stevie.

8 minutes ago, MSchott said:

The golfer is the star not the caddie. It's the same reason Tiger fired Fluff Cowan.

The reasons go beyond that, according to some of the things I've heard and read. Tiger would have fired Stevie if it was just about that.

8 minutes ago, MSchott said:

Maybe he's out of touch with the modern game but back to the point of this thread, LaCava is known as a great caddie.

That doesn't mean he's a great fit for Tiger Woods.

[turtleback]

2 hours ago, MSchott said:

I think the point is that caddies should be inconspicuous. Stevie is definitely not that. The golfer is the star not the caddie. It's the same reason Tiger fired Fluff Cowan. Jack Nicklaus said last week that he thinks players count far too much on caddies these days. Maybe he's out of touch with the modern game but back to the point of this thread, LaCava is known as a great caddie.

And back in the day people thought Jack relied too much on the pre-measured yardages in his yardage book.  Times change, practices change, but human nature stays the same.

I think most players would rather win 13 majors with a caddie who is not inconspicuous than not win any with a Casper Milquetoast.