2018 The PLAYERS Championship

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, Patch said:

In an interview Woody said the sand wedge was the right club. When I first saw his tee shot, (replay) my first thought was he hit it a little on the fat side.  The screen showed a 2 mph wind at the tee, and a 11 mph higher up. 

A little less than 11mph. 

If he tried to hit a cut, then maybe that wind off the right would hold it up a bit. He came up 5 yards short of the wall. He probably didn’t catch it full. Maybe a PW was too much club to go at the pin? 

[ncates00]

30 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Tiger chose to hit a sand wedge instead because he saw Jordan hit a 52*. I think that is poor thinking and Steve would’ve intervened. And no I don’t have any idea on what Tiger was thinking as you don’t either. It was simply my opinion so lighten up Francis.

That's what Jordan said- not Tiger.  That may or may not have actually been a factor in his decision making.

[klineka]

32 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It was simply my opinion so lighten up Francis.

I'm not the one calling his caddie dopey and useless because Tiger didnt perform as well as you expected him to. 

It seems to me like you are trying to blame his caddie. Its not like the caddie said it was 15 mph downwind when it was actually into his face, or the caddie misread the yardage by 15 yards. Those would be faults of the caddie. Tiger having a sand wedge yardage and not hitting it that full yardage is (IMO) an execution failure.

[iacas]

I think Joey is to blame for things.

He never seems to challenge anything. He let Tiger hit on 16 at AP without any specific target. Etc.

[NCGolfer]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think Joey is to blame for things.

He never seems to challenge anything. He let Tiger hit on 16 at AP without any specific target. Etc.

Joey seems extremely laid back...like Fred.  May have worked for Couples but not sure about Tiger.  

[GolfLug]

49 minutes ago, klineka said:

I'm not the one calling his caddie dopey and useless because Tiger didnt perform as well as you expected him to. 

It seems to me like you are trying to blame his caddie. Its not like the caddie said it was 15 mph downwind when it was actually into his face, or the caddie misread the yardage by 15 yards. Those would be faults of the caddie. Tiger having a sand wedge yardage and not hitting it that full yardage is (IMO) an execution failure.

Yeah, ball barely made it to 100 yards (+/- 5). IMO, primarily poor execution, not necessarily bad contact but I am assuming he ballooned it much more than he planned to and caught much more wind than he would have though. Also, agree that that much zip would have caused a serious spin back up. I guess in hind sight flighting a GW would have been safer but I think the back right location needs a badass target shot if you have birdie on your mind. 

Either way, I doubt there is another hole on tour that comes remotely close (maybe 12th on Augusta) to making tour pro look so amateurish in their judgement.  

I think Joey is a spectator caddie. Starting to loose a little respect for his spine.  

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

Joey seems extremely laid back...like Fred.  May have worked for Couples but not sure about Tiger.  

3 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I think Joey is a spectator caddie. Starting to loose a little respect for his spine.  

Yep.

 

[ncates00]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think Joey is to blame for things.

He never seems to challenge anything. He let Tiger hit on 16 at AP without any specific target. Etc.

The golfer is to blame.  He hits the golf ball.  He could possibly use a better caddie, but we don't know the inside scoop and conversations between player and caddie- although I wish we could just tune in and listen to them instead of these commentators.

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

The golfer is to blame.  He hits the golf ball.  He could possibly use a better caddie, but we don't know the inside scoop and conversations between player and caddie- although I wish we could just tune in and listen to them instead of these commentators.

I laid out my case in the other topic. But no, the caddie is not blameless.

[GolfLug]

9 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

but we don't know the inside scoop and conversations between player and caddie- although I wish we could just tune in and listen to them instead of these commentators.

Yes, but a pattern is starting to draw more than faint lines.

[Valleygolfer]

41 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

The golfer is to blame.  He hits the golf ball.  He could possibly use a better caddie, but we don't know the inside scoop and conversations between player and caddie- although I wish we could just tune in and listen to them instead of these commentators.

No, this is a team. If there is an opportunity to interject and help make the correct decision and he didn't, then there is blame. I don't know LaCava's thought on this and don't suspect that we will. However if he is just a "yes man," Tiger might need to re-evaluate his caddie choice.

[Zeph]

Tiger might have chosen Joey because he's not the type to interfere. Even instructed him to not interfere more than Tiger wants him to. Tiger is currently going at it without a coach, at least as far as we know. Maybe he's decided to involve less people in his game. If that's the right thing to do or not is up to Tiger to decide, but I don't want to put blame on Joey since he might be doing the job he's hired to do. And it might be a different job than Steve Williams had. There are more examples on the tour of caddies that are there primarily to carry clubs and balls, and doesn't get involved much in the game.

Whether Tiger would've played better or worse with a different caddie, hit more or less bad shots, we can't know. We can speculate, but not know. And even if he would've been better off with someone more like Steve, we don't know if it is something Tiger would have wanted. 

[klineka]

I agree that the caddie isnt always blameless, but in the particular case of the 17th yesterday, what would you have expected the caddie to have said/done? As someone mentioned earlier, Tiger had the perfect SW distance, wind wasnt hurting much, and probably had a little adrenaline from the fact that its the 17th hole. Hindsight is 20/20, but lets say he takes a soft gap wedge there, if he's not 100% dialed in with his distance control on that partial wedge, the ball is off the back of the green. 

Had there been a discussion and his caddie suggested he hit the GW and then if Woods hit it over the green, I bet some of the same people would be here today saying that the caddie made the wrong choice and he should have suggested the SW. Or if Woods had carried it 5 yards further with the SW and landed on the green, nobody would be saying that the caddie should have talked it over first.

A poorly executed shot by Woods suddenly means it was the wrong club and then somehow the caddies' fault? I'm not buying that one bit for this specific instance. 

Think about your own golf games for a second, if you have a club you know you fits the exact carry distance from the tee on a par 3, and there's trouble long so you pick the club that goes the exact carry distance and you come up short, are you going to blame yourself for hitting the wrong club (when the longer club easily could bring the back trouble into play), or would you blame the execution aspect? Personally I would blame the execution aspect. 

I understand and agree completely there is probably a better choice of a caddie out there and Woods could probably benefit by someone who would question his decisions sometimes, but in the particular instance of the 17th yesterday, I have a hard time understanding why people are saying that the outcome (on that particular hole) was a result of the caddie being a spectator, dopey, useless, etc.

[p1n9183]

Did Tiger look at his caddie with anger thinking "You gave me the wrong club"?? no.. he just blame the wind. Nobody´s fault... just a combination of a non perfect stroke and bad luck with the wind change.

The tournament.. a little boring.. lack of emotions. Happy to see tiger again in contention on Sunday on a big tournament. 

[ncates00]

51 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

No, this is a team. If there is an opportunity to interject and help make the correct decision and he didn't, then there is blame. I don't know LaCava's thought on this and don't suspect that we will. However if he is just a "yes man," Tiger might need to re-evaluate his caddie choice.

Golf is not a team sport.  The caddie does not hit the ball and the player is the boss.  He makes all decisions final.  Anything else is just an excuse.  Eternal locus of control excuse.

[ncates00]

25 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Did Tiger look at his caddie with anger thinking "You gave me the wrong club"?? no.. he just blame the wind. Nobody´s fault... just a combination of a non perfect stroke and bad luck with the wind change.

The tournament.. a little boring.. lack of emotions. Happy to see tiger again in contention on Sunday on a big tournament. 

Tiger isn't going to blame the caddie.  It's down to him.  Anything else is an excuse.

1 hour ago, klineka said:

I agree that the caddie isnt always blameless, but in the particular case of the 17th yesterday, what would you have expected the caddie to have said/done? As someone mentioned earlier, Tiger had the perfect SW distance, wind wasnt hurting much, and probably had a little adrenaline from the fact that its the 17th hole. Hindsight is 20/20, but lets say he takes a soft gap wedge there, if he's not 100% dialed in with his distance control on that partial wedge, the ball is off the back of the green. 

Had there been a discussion and his caddie suggested he hit the GW and then if Woods hit it over the green, I bet some of the same people would be here today saying that the caddie made the wrong choice and he should have suggested the SW. Or if Woods had carried it 5 yards further with the SW and landed on the green, nobody would be saying that the caddie should have talked it over first.

A poorly executed shot by Woods suddenly means it was the wrong club and then somehow the caddies' fault? I'm not buying that one bit for this specific instance. 

Think about your own golf games for a second, if you have a club you know you fits the exact carry distance from the tee on a par 3, and there's trouble long so you pick the club that goes the exact carry distance and you come up short, are you going to blame yourself for hitting the wrong club (when the longer club easily could bring the back trouble into play), or would you blame the execution aspect? Personally I would blame the execution aspect. 

I understand and agree completely there is probably a better choice of a caddie out there and Woods could probably benefit by someone who would question his decisions sometimes, but in the particular instance of the 17th yesterday, I have a hard time understanding why people are saying that the outcome (on that particular hole) was a result of the caddie being a spectator, dopey, useless, etc.

Agreed.

[sheepdog]

6 hours ago, sheepdog said:

Here's what I've got from perusing the internet and my newspaper this morning. Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, oh by the way Webb Simpson won.

Just like around here, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, hey guys Webb Simpson won yet it's all about Tiger. Hey he got wet at 17, so what. Simpson got wet on 18, made double bogey and still won by 4. That should be the story.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, ncates00 said:

Golf is not a team sport.  The caddie does not hit the ball and the player is the boss.  He makes all decisions final.  Anything else is just an excuse.  Eternal locus of control excuse.

Not at all true.

18 minutes ago, sheepdog said:

Just like around here, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, hey guys Webb Simpson won yet it's all about Tiger. Hey he got wet at 17, so what. Simpson got wet on 18, made double bogey and still won by 4. That should be the story.

And so are your posts.

He’s the GOAT.

Tiger’s return is a bigger story than a one-off week by Webb.