2018 World Cup

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, Moxley said:

Unreal what has happened with Spain. I personally think they have handled it badly, as angry as they may be, they could have saved their rebuke until after the tournament. It's very hard to see how this is the best decision for the team. 

That's what I was thinking. 

But suppose you were a Spanish supporter, who would you be the most mad at? The manager, the Federation or Real Madrid?

[Vinsk]

I'll tell ya what's unreal, the amazing lack of understanding of the hand ball rule. World wide it's completely misunderstood. World Cup officials, announcers, players and former players/announcers...complete idiots. It's absolutely maddening. Golf and American football have some rules that are complicated. This isn't complicated at all. The word 'deliberate' is completely ignored over and over again. That is the pinnacle of the rule. Tony Meola himself has no idea. It was so refreshing to see a referee today in the Argentina vs Nigeria game get it right. And what does the moron Meola say..even after a FIFA Official stated the rule clearly? " Deliberate or not, that's a penalty kick." NO! 100% wrong. Amazing he's a paid announcer and former player and doesn't understand the rule. Ronaldo doesn't, Messi doesn't and the ref from yesterday's game Iran/Spain totally blew it. No hand ball penalty was warranted there. Sadly, yet so common the idiot simply thought if the ball contacts the hand/arm it's a penalty. Shame.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I'll tell ya what's unreal, the amazing lack of understanding of the hand ball rule. World wide it's completely misunderstood. World Cup officials, announcers, players and former players/announcers...complete idiots. It's absolutely maddening. Golf and American football have some rules that are complicated. This isn't complicated at all. The word 'deliberate' is completely ignored over and over again. That is the pinnacle of the rule. Tony Meola himself has no idea. It was so refreshing to see a referee today in the Argentina vs Nigeria game get it right. And what does the moron Meola say..even after a FIFA Official stated the rule clearly? " Deliberate or not, that's a penalty kick." NO! 100% wrong. Amazing he's a paid announcer and former player and doesn't understand the rule. Ronaldo doesn't, Messi doesn't and the ref from yesterday's game Iran/Spain totally blew it. No hand ball penalty was warranted there. Sadly, yet so common the idiot simply thought if the ball contacts the hand/arm it's a penalty. Shame.

So they're calling hand balls even when someone just kicks it into your hand or arm and you can't move out of the way in time to avoid it, or similar situations?

Gotta be deliberate, yeah.

[Vinsk]

29 minutes ago, iacas said:

So they're calling hand balls even when someone just kicks it into your hand or arm and you can't move out of the way in time to avoid it, or similar situations?

Gotta be deliberate, yeah.

Many times it’s called a penalty just because the ball contacted the arm/hand. No regard is given for the word ‘deliberate.’ Today the player headed the ball (eyes closed) into his own bicep. The ref actually got it right. Needless to say many, many were outraged and Tony Meola made that idiotic statement calling it a due pk. Often one can just ask was it ball to hand or hand to ball? Millions of people world wide don’t get it. Other than the shameful simulating it is a very good World Cup imo.

[saevel25]

I think it’s a handball, I thought it was a yellow card if it’s deliberate. 

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I think it’s a handball, I thought it was a yellow card if it’s deliberate. 

That’s not the rule. ‘Hand ball’ results in a penalty If the player deliberately uses his arm/hand to touch or handle the ball (except goal keeper of course). If a player deliberately uses his hands to stop a goal it’s a red card. If a player deliberately uses his hands to stop a play the ref may issue a yellow card. Today’s call was 100% accurate. The player did not deliberately handle the ball with his arm. It was ball to arm, not arm to ball. Deliberate, deliberate, deliberate. 

[Golfingdad]

I’m with Vinsk on the Belgium call - they are my favorites to win.  I’m rooting for England and Mexico.

Careful with the handball rant though. I’m not sure which calls, specifically, you’re referring to other than the one no call (which I agree with) but there have been a few that the offending player (and his fans) would argue wasnt deliberate because “hey, it hit my hand only cuz I couldn’t move it out of the way” but in reality, he had his hand there in the first place on purpose to “make himself bigger” to hope it “accidentally” deflects off of him.

When you’re defending, keep your arms adjacent to your body or behind your back or risk a penalty.

My point is, you can make the decision and move to “deliberately” commit a hand ball foul prior to seeing where the ball is heading.

---

Tomorrow morning is gonna be fun.  There are two different scenarios where the last tiebreaker prior to drawing straws can come into play.  And that tiebreaker involves quantity of “fair play” points from yellow and red cards. 😉

[Vinsk]

I think you’re referring to the player who did the slide. If you slide to make a tackle, block a shot your lower hand which is used for support is considered ok. But it you extend the other arm, thus expanding your body area and you block the ball then that can be considered a deliberate use of the arm. Again, that action shows purpose. If a player was sitting on the ground (protesting as they do) and the goal keeper is behind him, kicks, throws the ball, and the players arm is in the air and blocks it (his back to the keeper) that is not a penalty. The player did not deliberately use his arms to block the ball.

Doesn’t really matter what a player says. It’s usually pretty evident when a deliberate use of the hands has occurred. And don’t forget, what you see called is not a good indicator as many refs, even at that level don’t get it. Tony Meola was a WC player and now professional commentator and doesn’t understand the rule.

[Golfingdad]

41 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I think you’re referring to the player who did the slide. If you slide to make a tackle, block a shot your lower hand which is used for support is considered ok. But it you extend the other arm, thus expanding your body area and you block the ball then that can be considered a deliberate use of the arm. Again, that action shows purpose. If a player was sitting on the ground (protesting as they do) and the goal keeper is behind him, kicks, throws the ball, and the players arm is in the air and blocks it (his back to the keeper) that is not a penalty. The player did not deliberately use his arms to block the ball.

Doesn’t really matter what a player says. It’s usually pretty evident when a deliberate use of the hands has occurred. And don’t forget, what you see called is not a good indicator as many refs, even at that level don’t get it. Tony Meola was a WC player and now professional commentator and doesn’t understand the rule.

Related, in general I’ve been quite pleased with the use of the video replay overall.

Not perfect, but miles better than without.

[alleztom]

Deliberate as defined here handball includes negligence. It is not just whether you move your arm to the ball, but if your arm is in an unnatural position and the ball hits it then it is handball. For example you can't in the wall just lift both your arms up and say it wasn't deliberate if the ball hits them.

[adampaul]

I think Uruguay will definitely defeat top teams in top 16 because Uruguay is the only team who win all 3 matches of group matches.

[Zeph]

They might, but they beat Egypt, Russia and Saudi Arabia; not exactly top tier teams. Now they will meet Portugal and other good teams. 

[alleztom]

Can't argue with garra though... I like Uruguay for a few reasons though. First 2x top class centre forwards (despite Cavani's inefficiency) which in a tournament of limited and defensive football can make a huge difference. Second Oscar Tabares' ability to create a sense of collective, totally necessary in a month long tournament which is time sped up. Third, the regeneration they went through in the last 12-18 months in qualifying. I've never seen such effective generational change. They're not top tier, and winning 3 group games isn't really a good indication, but they're very good quality.

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, alleztom said:

Deliberate as defined here handball includes negligence. It is not just whether you move your arm to the ball, but if your arm is in an unnatural position and the ball hits it then it is handball. For example you can't in the wall just lift both your arms up and say it wasn't deliberate if the ball hits them.

Yes. Again that’s deliberate. Raising your arms in the wall is a deliberate use of the arms/hands to make contact/handle the ball. Nobody would just stand there with their arms raised prior to the kick. If player raises his arm as the ball approached, that could just as well be called ball to hand/arm.

[alleztom]

53 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Yes. Again that’s deliberate. Raising your arms in the wall is a deliberate use of the arms/hands to make contact/handle the ball. Nobody would just stand there with their arms raised prior to the kick. If player raises his arm as the ball approached, that could just as well be called ball to hand/arm.

It's an extreme example, but if you follow your argument through I think you'll find you agree with me. If your arm is where it shouldn't be (unnecessarily away from the body). I think we are agreeing here.

[dennyjones]

It has been an exciting tournament.   Spain has been disappointing.   Germany's game against Mexico was .... Mexico was much better in that game in the first half.  England has looked good as well as Belgium.    France hasn't impressed me but then again, Brazil hasn't either.  Croatia has been impressive

Uruguay and Russia from Group A

Spain and Portugal from Group B

France and Denmark from Group C

Croatia and Argentina from Group D

Either Brazil, Switzerland or Serbia from Group E

Mexico will make it and either Germany or Sweden from Group F

England and Belgium from Group G

Japan, Senegal or Columbia from Group H.

 

Saturday, I believe France and Uruguay will advance

Sunday, I think Spain and Croatia will advance

[p1n9183]

I can´t tell u how much i suffered yestarday match against Nigeria.
First penalty.. there are 20 plays like that in every match, if that one is penalty you have to apply the same judment in all of the other, with VAR u can see all of them if you want to.
The hand after missing the heading the ball it´s not penalty at all, penalty it´s when yo intentionally hit the ball with your hand or put your hands intentionally away from your body in order to maximize the area of your body to increase de posibilities to block a shoot to goal. 

After what i saw in the cup... no team it´s a clear candidate. Germany almost go home, Spain have a hard time in his group, France didn´t shine. Maybe Brazil but they have some problems winning also.

[dennyjones]

1 minute ago, p1n9183 said:

First penalty.. there are 20 plays like that in every match, if that one is penalty you have to apply the same judment in all of the other, with VAR u can see all of them if you want to.

+1

In the tournament, I've seen much worse not get the call.