Heavier Shaft for Fewer Hybrid Hooks?

[Moxley 71]

I have a problem with my hybrids, which is that I struggle to hit them straight - they all have strong tendencies to pull or hook for me. Of course, I can deliberately play for a fade, but that can easily be overdone too, since the action is not natural. I just don't trust these clubs, which is a shame because they should be a valuable part of my approach game. 

Looking at the weights , I have 2 at 70g and one at 65g. These seem a bit light to me. All will travel a lot further than their iron equivalents, which is perhaps linked to the weight. However, I'm prefer accuracy over a few extra yards for approach.

Whether it not it would beneficial, am I likely to notice much difference from a heavier shaft, say in the 90g range. 

Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

 

[billchao 2,791]

3 hours ago, Moxley said:

I have a problem with my hybrids, which is that I struggle to hit them straight - they all have strong tendencies to pull or hook for me. Of course, I can deliberately play for a fade, but that can easily be overdone too, since the action is not natural. I just don't trust these clubs, which is a shame because they should be a valuable part of my approach game. 

That's actually a fairly common issue. Hybrids tend to have more offset and they kind of look like woods so people can end up setting up and aiming differently with them than their iron counterparts.

3 hours ago, Moxley said:

Looking at the weights , I have 2 at 70g and one at 65g. These seem a bit light to me. All will travel a lot further than their iron equivalents, which is perhaps linked to the weight.

Not necessarily. They're designed with a lower CoG to launch the ball higher, they're more forgiving, and they're usually slightly longer than the irons they're meant to replace. Plus if your index is accurate, you're likely not hitting the equivalent irons well enough to really know how far they should be going anyway.

3 hours ago, Moxley said:

Whether it not it would beneficial, am I likely to notice much difference from a heavier shaft, say in the 90g range. 

Probably. 20g is a significant difference in weight.

Whether it would be a good change for you, you'd probably want to see a good clubfitter for. If you have an adjustable hosel on your hybrid you can just buy a shaft to try out, but it would probably cost just as much as a session with a fitter who could tell you definitively what setup works best for you. If you don't have an adjustable hosel, then self-fitting would end up costing a good amount of money if you had to pay someone to re-shaft your clubs.

[MarvChamp 193]

You didn't say  what the flex of the shafts were or they won't characteristics. But the white seems right to me. Try to set up to them like you do your irons. Maybe slightly bit more forward. Hover the club head after taking aim and before the backswing. You well more or less automatically come down on the ball, compressing it more. That is a Butch Harmon tip that has helped me with my hybrids and Fairways. Best wishes, - Marv

Sorry for the misspelling. I meant to say flight characteristics and weight - Marv

[Moxley 71]

Thanks both. 

I appreciate that the only way to be sure is to be custom fitted, but the problem I have with that is that I wouldn't want to buy new clubs (most of my gear is pre owned, although well researched and based on a previous custom fitting) so wouldn't want to waste the time of a club fitter. That said, if I could pay for a session without any implied obligation to buy clubs, then I'd be happy to do that.

[MarvChamp 193]

3 hours ago, Moxley said:

I wouldn't want to buy new clubs (most of my gear is pre owned, although well researched and based on a previous custom fitting) so wouldn't want to waste the time of a club fitter.

I understand...I'm much the same. You might try this: Research shafts at My Golf Spy, Tom Wishon, reviews, etc. for flight characteristics with different weights and flexes. And research top-rated hybrids to find out what shafts are used. E,g,, I did both with my Cleveland hybrids. Then I found a couple at a used store and was able to swing them. Finally, about weight...A friend gave me (long story) his JPX Fli-Hi 3 & 4 DIR hybrids. The club "feels" a little heavy in overall weight with the stock shafts. I hit them very straight. I acquired a 5 in a similar, but lighter, more flexible shaft; I tend to draw it. Well, all that is my experience; yours will probably be different, but I want to wish you the best in your quest. -Marv

[GOATee 25]

I switched my 75g hybrid shaft to 90g.  Very different.  It will completely change the swing feel.

A lighter hybrid shaft feels more flexible like a driver shaft, a heavier one feels much more like an iron shaft.

Be careful not too get too stiff a torque for a 90g, the 1.something torque ones are only for superb ballstrikers with high swingspeed.

90g shafts are much more accurate than 60/70g ones because the stiffer tips don't move about as much, but are far less forgiving on imperfect strikes and wrong AOA.  Don't hit down enough and there goes the launch and distance.

If too stiff, can end up in more hooks because the weight shift and muscle can overreact to compensate.

Edited June 27, 2018 by GOATee

[WUTiger 553]

On 6/25/2018 at 2:38 PM, billchao said:

That's actually a fairly common issue. Hybrids tend to have more offset and they kind of look like woods so people can end up setting up and aiming differently with them than their iron counterparts.

You might try hybrids with pro or tour heads. These tend to have a more square club face, and would be less likely to end up to the left. (Last long club changes I made were to driver and hybrids. Both types had offset faces, while irons and wedges had square face/much less offset. Now everything is square face, and I have much fewer left misses).

Before you spend money, check your ball position. If you play hybrids too far forward like a wood, the clubface may be closed down at impact.

[Moxley 71]

On 6/27/2018 at 2:21 PM, GOATee said:

I switched my 75g hybrid shaft to 90g.  Very different.  It will completely change the swing feel.

A lighter hybrid shaft feels more flexible like a driver shaft, a heavier one feels much more like an iron shaft.

Be careful not too get too stiff a torque for a 90g, the 1.something torque ones are only for superb ballstrikers with high swingspeed.

90g shafts are much more accurate than 60/70g ones because the stiffer tips don't move about as much, but are far less forgiving on imperfect strikes and wrong AOA.  Don't hit down enough and there goes the launch and distance.

If too stiff, can end up in more hooks because the weight shift and muscle can overreact to compensate.

Really useful information, thank you. I think this is probably something I need to investigate further. 

I actually don't mind having a club towards the top end of my bag that is less more accurate but less forgiving. It's nice for the driver to be forgiving on off center hits, but I actually don't want this from my precision clubs - I'd much rather a mishit be allowed to come up short than get lost in the bushes to the left of the green. 

 

[GOATee 25]

Ima share a massive amount of useful info about hybrids here from my own experimentation. 

First you need to figure out if you prefer bigger or smaller heads.  The bigger heads will launch easier and are made for more sweeping wood-type motions.  They are more forgiving.  The smaller heads are more for hitting down on the ball like an iron and are better from the rough.  They are less forgiving but usually have less offset and less tendency to hook left like WU Tiger said.  As for what brand is good, most bigheaded hybrids are similar and most smallheaded are similar.  So the choice is mostly big or small head, not so much the brand.

Next, the shaft weight and hybrid swingweight.  You want a shaft weight that is between your driver/woods shaft weight and your irons shaft weight.  This is to ensure the swingweight of the hybrid is not too different from your other clubs.  If your clubs are mostly D1-D3 and your 60g shafted hybrid is suddenly C5, it can totally throw off your rhythm and swing feel.  If your woods are 60/70g and irons shaft 100g+, 80-90g is a good range for hybrid shaft weight.  The reason there are so many 60/70g hybrids is to cater to low swingspeed high-handicap players who cannot get a 90g shaft hybrid up in the air.

Next, the shaft torque and bend profile.  Most good hybrid shafts are similar.  They have a stiff tip to prevent shaft head wobble as the hybrid head is hit down like an iron, but the head is heavier.  Your average 60/70g shaft caters to low swingspeeds and high-handicappers and has a torque around 2.8-4, then there are the pro-spec 1.2-1.8 torque 90-100g shafts that are like steel bars and take pro-level swingspeed to use.  Like I said, too soft a shaft prevents easy whipping left but too stiff a shaft may cause the player to feel he/she needs to overswing and this causes left hooks too.  For a good amateur, I suggest around 2.5 torque.

Finally, on technique.  Like WUTiger said, the ball should not be too far in front (some shaft lean is good), so you can hit down rather than flip and scoop the ball.  This enables precision from compression and also enables hitting the ball out of thicker lies because scooping goes through a lot of grass but a V-like downhit motion will avoid a lot of grass.

It is highly recommended to go to a fitter because all these factors are troublesome to figure out yourself.  Have fun and if you do master the specs and the technique, you will have a good anti-left hook precision tool that can rescue bad lies too!

 

Edited July 4, 2018 by GOATee

[GuamAP2 7]

My driver is a 70 (s) Tour AD my FW is a 60 (s)  Tour AD my irons are a 70 (r) Mitsubishi.

Is it safe to say that I get a 75 (s) Tour AD for my 4 hybrid? right now it is a 70 (r) Fujikura and it feels heavy

[boogielicious 3,029]

11 hours ago, GuamAP2 said:

My driver is a 70 (s) Tour AD my FW is a 60 (s)  Tour AD my irons are a 70 (r) Mitsubishi.

Is it safe to say that I get a 75 (s) Tour AD for my 4 hybrid? right now it is a 70 (r) Fujikura and it feels heavy

I use a 60g driver shaft, 70g FW shaft and 80g Hybrid shaft, all Project X Hzrdus Black Smoke 5.5 flex. So the progression is 10g. My irons are 115g Project X LZ 5.5. The whole set has around the same swingweight too. 
 

For your hybrid, 75 or 80 would be a good choice. Make sure to check the swingweight too. A club can feel heavy if it’s set up with a higher swingweight.

[ncates00 264]

On 6/25/2018 at 11:34 AM, Moxley said:

I have a problem with my hybrids, which is that I struggle to hit them straight - they all have strong tendencies to pull or hook for me. Of course, I can deliberately play for a fade, but that can easily be overdone too, since the action is not natural. I just don't trust these clubs, which is a shame because they should be a valuable part of my approach game. 

Looking at the weights , I have 2 at 70g and one at 65g. These seem a bit light to me. All will travel a lot further than their iron equivalents, which is perhaps linked to the weight. However, I'm prefer accuracy over a few extra yards for approach.

Whether it not it would beneficial, am I likely to notice much difference from a heavier shaft, say in the 90g range. 

Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

 

In my opinion, a heavier shaft is not going to change anything. The hybrid you have is too upright for you, you toe strike it, or you have serious face to path issues. Go test different hybrids or work on your swing or even check out fairway woods instead. I have one hybrid, a 4h, and I have 3w, 5w, and 7w, in part because hybrids tend to hook for me as well the lower the loft is. Not the case for fairway woods, plus I like the extra stopping power. My 4h is actually a bit open at address, which helps. 

[Carl3 128]

this is my 4i and 4h sitting with soles on the concrete. The irons are less game improvement that the hybrids. I may be putting my 3h and 4h away and going back to my irons due to the hook issue. I have to set up and come through differently to hit my target.

[ncates00 264]

38 minutes ago, Carl3 said:

this is my 4i and 4h sitting with soles on the concrete. The irons are less game improvement that the hybrids. I may be putting my 3h and 4h away and going back to my irons due to the hook issue. I have to set up and come through differently to hit my target.

Try out different hybrids or fairway woods even. The benefits of hybrids and fairway woods are immense, e.g., higher launch, more spin, steeper descent angle to hold greens, more forgiving, more ball speed, etc. However, to your point, you can't have a hook machine. Therefore, you should consider trying out different hybrids or look to fairway woods. You can find such clubs that sit open at address.

[saevel25 1,916]

On 6/25/2018 at 3:38 PM, billchao said:

That's actually a fairly common issue. Hybrids tend to have more offset and they kind of look like woods so people can end up setting up and aiming differently with them than their iron counterparts.

I don't find this to be the case. Maybe, something like the Ping Crossover. 

This hybrid looks to have no offset at all. 

RADSPEED Hybrid | COBRA Golf

---

The RADSPEED Hybrid features front-biased internal RADIAL WEIGHTING and an external back weight to deliver low spin, high launch and forgiveness.

 

On 6/25/2018 at 3:38 PM, billchao said:

Plus if your index is accurate, you're likely not hitting the equivalent irons well enough to really know how far they should be going anyway.

I find that most hybrids are not actually iron replacement per their labelling. I always find them to be about 1 club longer.

On 6/25/2018 at 11:34 AM, Moxley said:

Looking at the weights , I have 2 at 70g and one at 65g. These seem a bit light to me. All will travel a lot further than their iron equivalents, which is perhaps linked to the weight. However, I'm prefer accuracy over a few extra yards for approach.

Whether it not it would beneficial, am I likely to notice much difference from a heavier shaft, say in the 90g range. 

Any thoughts much appreciated.

A heavier club will probably not help you fix a pull or hook. That is a significant swing path and clubface issue. I would look at your swing first versus looking at it being an equipment issue. 

14 hours ago, GuamAP2 said:

My driver is a 70 (s) Tour AD my FW is a 60 (s)  Tour AD my irons are a 70 (r) Mitsubishi.

Is it safe to say that I get a 75 (s) Tour AD for my 4 hybrid? right now it is a 70 (r) Fujikura and it feels heavy

It's common to see a 10 gram increment from driver to fairway woods and from fairway woods to hybrids. It wouldn't be that uncomon to have the same weight range for fairway woods to hybrids. 

My driver is in the mid to upper 70's. My fairway wood, I think is the same, with my hybrid being in the mid 80's. 

[SEMI_Duffer 11]

3 hours ago, Carl3 said:

this is my 4i and 4h sitting with soles on the concrete. The irons are less game improvement that the hybrids. I may be putting my 3h and 4h away and going back to my irons due to the hook issue. I have to set up and come through differently to hit my target.

Silly n00bie question, perhaps, but why not just open the face of the hybrids a bit at setup?

[GolfLug 627]

4 hours ago, Carl3 said:

this is my 4i and 4h sitting with soles on the concrete. The irons are less game improvement that the hybrids. I may be putting my 3h and 4h away and going back to my irons due to the hook issue. I have to set up and come through differently to hit my target.

IMHO, hybrid head construction and point of hosel connection to the club head makes it tiny bit easier for it to turn over than a traditional iron for a draw clubpath/clubface face combo. Over the years I have noticed that, when I hook, my hook flight is much hookier with a hybrid than a an iron. I am sure this is the experience of many. 

Edited March 1 by GolfLug

[Carl3 128]

3 hours ago, SEMI_Duffer said:

Silly n00bie question, perhaps, but why not just open the face of the hybrids a bit at setup?

I do play it more open at address and then also come through contact with my wrists set for a more open contact. I did not have to think about adjusting when I had more game improvement irons. They had more offset. They sis this "constant vigilance" mind set I have to get when picking up a hybrid that I rather not have.