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2018 Ryder Cup at Le Golf National - Paris, France

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10 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

Because...it's a f--king exhibition.  Heck, look at even the Olympics, which come with a gold medal...professional golfers cared so little they were making up excuses not to go.  The Ryder Cup matters a LOT more to mediocre players like Poulter than to guys like Tiger who are able to compete with the best.

Pity there are automatic selections. It would be interesting, if your theory is correct, to hear the excuses the top players would make for not flying across the pond to play in a  mere Exhibition match.

Of course, some of them seem very disappointed not to be picked as a Captain's pick. Guess those must be the mediocre ones...

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16 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

Because...it's a f--king exhibition.  Heck, look at even the Olympics, which come with a gold medal...professional golfers cared so little they were making up excuses not to go.  The Ryder Cup matters a LOT more to mediocre players like Poulter than to guys like Tiger who are able to compete with the best.

I think you are way off with this comment. The Ryder Cup matters to these guys. A lot. Even the elite ones. To their credit, I don't think anyone on the USA is trying to downplay the significance, like you are doing with this post. 

But if they did, it would purely to save face/ego/whatever.

 

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17 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

Depends on the player. I feel like DJ, Koepka and maybe a couple of the Yanks would take any tourney over a RC, but I feel like there’s others, especially Euros, who are so passionate for the RC that only a major would be bigger for them. Hence why I feel like the Euros outperform us a lot. I think this means more for them. 

Hmm...OK, like I said, it's debatable...it'd be interesting to know how many of them really would.  I just can't shake the thought that if you asked even Poulter whether he'd take an L in the Ryder Cup to win another tournament he'd say "yes" in a heartbeat...but I might be dead wrong.

15 minutes ago, Big C said:

I think you are way off with this comment. The Ryder Cup matters to these guys. A lot. Even the elite ones. To their credit, I don't think anyone on the USA is trying to downplay the significance, like you are doing with this post. 

OK...I'll admit that, since I personally think the Ryder Cup is dumb, I'm projecting a little.  I think it matters to them in the moment, certainly...these are hyper-competitive golfers and they very much want to win.  I just think that it's silly to expect them to prioritize it over their individual success (by, say, playing in the French Open to see the course) or to show intense interest (by, say, not showing signs of a hangover from just having won their 80th PGA event).

27 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

Pity there are automatic selections. It would be interesting, if your theory is correct, to hear the excuses the top players would make for not flying across the pond to play in a  mere Exhibition match.

I do think it's interesting to compare it to the Olympics...it does seem really unlikely that some would decline to play in the RC.

 

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Have been traveling, but there is a lot I want to download on:

  • Furyk was the goat here.  I never got the impression he had command of this team - the Euros wanted to win for Bjorn and there was zero evidence the Americans we "playing for Furyk" in any way.  It was more like "Jim and friends" and they played with little passion.
  • We will likely never know the reason Spieth/Reed was broken up, but if we believe Justine Reed's tweet (no matter what you think of her), and Spieth's bromance with JT, it was Spieth that forced the move.  I get wanting to fulfill what is probably a lifelong dream to play with your childhood friend, but I think that gutted this team.  JT was strong enough to carry another team and you don't break up a team like that - they will get over whatever personal differences they had and if it was untenable after the first match, then break them up.
  • Finau was clearly the hottest player besides JT and not playing him in the afternoon on Saturday was a mistake - that is on the captain for not recognizing it.
  • Dechambeau was screwed both in being paired with Phil in Foursomes and not being given a chance at Fourballs.   He's #7 in birdies on tour and I have to believe that playing your own ball is an easier transition into a big event like this rather than Foursomes.
  • Tiger lacked energy until maybe hole #11 today.  Furyk needs to recognize that - again, I never felt like Jim was really doing anything to read his team.  He wanted to play everyone on Day 1, which compromised his afternoon pairings, and that cost the team.
  • Both teams play the same course and kudos to Bjorn for advantaging his team in the setup, but as much fun as all those island greens were, I'd prefer a Ryder Cup where I felt it was won through the team that played the best and not won by the team that made the least mistakes.  Somewhere between the Hazeltine setup and this would be good - whatever that is.

I have to assume that either Stricker or Phil will be the captain in 2020, but I'd honestly do whatever they can to bring back Azinger and maybe give it to him for the next 2 Ryder Cups.  It would be interesting to see what a captain does if they were given a home and away Ryder Cup to prepare for.  Whatever credit you want to give to the "pod system", I felt that it at least gave some direction to the pairings and this year it almost felt like Furyk drew pairings out of a hat.

Congrats to the Euros - well deserved! 

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To me it all comes down to how well the players play. There are many factors that play a role in a players performance but the coach in this case isn’t one of them. It’s not like football where a coach will call a play and the kids execute it perfectly yet it was a terrible time to run said play. This is golf. Phil playing with SLIG could just as easily been a great success as it was a failure. Same with Tiger and Reed. These guys are all elite golfers of the world and in with all factors applied, it’s still the player that makes the shot. The Americans played poorly. Jim could’ve not showed up at all, have no coaches at all and the match would still be playable. And it could be a success or a failure. Finau destroyed Fleetwood. They could play tomorrow on the same course and Fleetwood could destroy Finau. This is what makes golf so compelling to watch. No matter what stats you have prior to a match....you just never know what will happen. 

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1 hour ago, Big C said:

I think you are way off with this comment. The Ryder Cup matters to these guys. A lot. Even the elite ones. To their credit, I don't think anyone on the USA is trying to downplay the significance, like you are doing with this post. 

But if they did, it would purely to save face/ego/whatever.

 

I agree.Even though I could care less about a team golf event.You could see it was like the Americans had been crying afterwards.They had that look in their eyes or they had been drinking.

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If I had been the captain I'd have stuck to the basics...there is only one "I" in quit, for example, or that it is always darkest long before the dawn.  You know...the like inspirational stuff.  

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I think the posts about it being an exhibition and players not caring is sour grapes.  The players care (especially the younger guys)  they just lost.  No excuses about it they just need to play better.  I really wish there was a better score tracker out there to see how well these guys were playing relative to par.  I always have a hard time telling if its one team playing well and winning vs another team playing poorly and giving it away.  I think rydercup.com had something but it was giving players pars in team matches even if they were out of the hole which i dont agree with.  One had Reed at -3 for 2 rounds which seems odd with all the water balls.

 

If a pair shoots 63 best ball and loses to a 62 or 61 you gotta just credit the other team.  Same for singles.

 

Euros just played better.  Maybe the americans could have played more strategic golf but other than that i dont see how Furyk can be criticized.  

 

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A lot of USA is all about who the Captain is.. I just love to know..what Captain would the USA go out and give everything for..The King himself would have been the only one in my eyes Arnold Palmer..today Captain mmmm...

also Europeans had 6 players outside the top 20 in the world ranking while USA only had one Phil...just shows anyone can be beaten on any day.

 

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The more I read about why people think the U.S. sucks in the Ryder Cup the more I think there's nothing special about it. Maybe I wasn't reading about it in 2016 or 2008 but I don't ever remember the Europeans complaining about not getting their favorite pairings or anything like that. It's not like Tommy Fleetwood and Molinari were some battle-hardened partnership going into this week. They just showed up and played better. Sometimes things like that happen and there isn't some deeper meaning to be mined.

I don't believe that the European team is looser or anything, or their games set up better for fourballs vs. foursomes. They're all friends who know each other for the most part. Plenty of the Americans were hot going into the week. I don't think the outcome would have been much different with a changed captain's pick here or two. 

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's just that the Americans and Europeans are very similar in talent, and have been so for a while, and sometimes weird things happen in small samples. 

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2 hours ago, chriskzoo said:

 

  • We will likely never know the reason Spieth/Reed was broken up, but if we believe Justine Reed's tweet (no matter what you think of her), and Spieth's bromance with JT, it was Spieth that forced the move.  I get wanting to fulfill what is probably a lifelong dream to play with your childhood friend, but I think that gutted this team.  JT was strong enough to carry another team and you don't break up a team like that - they will get over whatever personal differences they had and if it was untenable after the first match, then break them up.
  •  

If true do you blame Spieth? Reed was throwing major shade at Jordan about Ryder Cup. Reed rubs a lot of players and fans the wrong way. I wouldn't want to play with someone who made sly remarks like Reed did. Reed sucked anyways so pairing him with Jordan would've meant another point lost. 

Jim is an awful captain and he didn't inspire his team to win for them or him. 

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Phil and Bubba shouldn't have been on the team. They were awful and the course didn't suit their game. Tiger was completely out of gas after last week and had nothing left. Bryson was a deer in headlights.....and again Jim Furyk was so uninspiring to not only his players but the US fans......

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9 minutes ago, cnl390 said:

How about having one of the top college coaches help make the pairings?

Huh?

4 minutes ago, JSGolf said:

Phil and Bubba shouldn't have been on the team.

Bubba won three events this year and was an automatic qualifier (4th on points). There was no way he wasn’t going to be on the team. 

You can def make an argument against Phil though. 

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Look, I find Jim to be a total bore. But I really don’t think captains are the issue. What can one do to make a player play better? As far as pairings I see it to be quite simple really: Have a solid statistician prepare a portfolio of all the players and which pairings are statistically ideal. Fairways off the tee, SGA, SGP...etc. Then factor in whatever ‘non-measurable’ issues (personality, bond, inspiration,) and if those are matched great...if not..then that’s where you need to have some locker room discussion to decide how best to compete.

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College coaches study their opponents and know which of their players match up best. Ryder cup captains are great players, but are they great strategists? 

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Just now, cnl390 said:

College coaches study their opponents and know which of their players match up best. Ryder cup captains are great players, but are they great strategists? 

What strategy could have been employed to stop the butt whooping the US got? 

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