Spin on Chip and Pitch Shots? Where Does It Come From?

[yanni]

I practised chipping a lot recently. I try to shoot the ball near the beginning of the green so it rolls as much as possible. This works quite nicely. I practise distances from around 5m-10m with different clubs. We have just a chipping and no pitching green for practising at the moment. 

Today on the course I had to do some shots from around 10m-25m. I was using my 50 and 54 wedge. I tried to do the same. But when playing this distance the ball just stopped on the green and rolled maybe for 1m or even less. In this case my concept did not work anymore. Does this come from bigger swing speed on the longer shots which adds more backspin? I would describe the my 5m-10m chip shots as 10% of my max power. The longer 10-20m shots maybe around 20-%-30% of my power. So still not a very high swing speed and just a quarter swing.

Edited September 29, 2018 by yanni

[boogielicious]

41 minutes ago, yanni said:

I practised chipping a lot recently. I try to shoot the ball near the beginning of the green so it rolls as much as possible. This works quite nicely. I practise distances from around 5m-10m with different clubs. We have just a chipping and no pitching green for practising at the moment. 

Today on the course I had to do some shots from around 10m-25m. I was using my 50 and 54 wedge. I tried to do the same. But when playing this distance the ball just stopped on the green and rolled maybe for 1m or even less. In this case my concept did not work anymore. Does this come from bigger swing speed on the longer shots which adds more backspin? I would describe the my 5m-10m chip shots as 10% of my max power. The longer 10-20m shots maybe around 20-%-30% of my power. So still not a very high swing speed and just a quarter swing.

With the longer swing, you are generating more spin, so a chip shot will check up. A pitch shot is more lofted and has less spin, so it should roll out more, but is also coming in higher.

[colin007]

Keep in mind, softness of the green impacts roll especially if you hit it higher

[Piz]

Spin is generated, or not, in much the same way one puts "english" on a cue ball.  When the club face collides with the golf ball, below the equator, the result is backspin.  The more angled the club face, relative to the angle of attack, the more spin.  And if that were not enough...the force of impact also contributes to spin or lack of spin.  Think about that cue ball.  Do you want it to stop...or draw back?  Do you want it to draw back straight or to one side or the other?  The cue stick is, essentially, the angle of attack.  Think about how, exactly the club head is moving toward the ball and the result will not seem mysterious.  Bon chance.

[Buckeyebowman]

I can't remember how many times I've heard this comment on golf telecasts. "He's left himself less than full wedge in. He may not be able to hit it hard enough to get enough spin to stop the ball."

Yes, the harder you hit the ball with a chipping or pitching club, the more spin you will put on it. There are other factors in play as well. How new, or old, your wedges are and what kind of shape the grooves are in. How "crisply" you struck the shot. Also, what kind of ball you use. Many of the better balls, like the Pro V-1, are very "spinny" for lack of a better term. Top Flites? Not so much!

[Casualgolfer]

Unless you play top flite gamers... They seem to play very similar to a pro v for me. However I can spin a slazenger lol. If I really want to get alot of spin on a pitch or chip shot I intentionally play it back in stance and make sure to accelerate into my downswing good while making sure to make solid ball first contact. Often think about driving the ball into the ground.  In my opinion, this is the only time a "premium" ball is worth anything to me. But you could be playing with a ball bearing and you just have to adjust to it. Harder covered balls just require knowing how much more run out you will get. Now if I want a soft landing chip I will play it off the front foot and and not try to "compress" it like I did with it played back. Depends on the lie but it will pop up and the descent angle is what stops it quick. But that's just the way I do it... Probably not right at all.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Casualgolfer

[Buckeyebowman]

I think remembering to accelerate through the shot is important. I see so many guys with short chips who just seem to "give up" on the shot. They try to get too cute with it, forgetting that the most important thing is to make sure they are putting on their next shot!

[saevel25]

31 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I think remembering to accelerate through the shot is important. I see so many guys with short chips who just seem to "give up" on the shot. They try to get too cute with it, forgetting that the most important thing is to make sure they are putting on their next shot!

Not my favorite feel. In most cases the hands are slowing down for a pitch, and the clubhead is catching up to the hands near impact. This allows the golfer to use the bounce effectively. So, accelerating through the ball might be a horrible feel for pitching. 

On 9/29/2018 at 12:24 PM, yanni said:

Today on the course I had to do some shots from around 10m-25m. I was using my 50 and 54 wedge. I tried to do the same. But when playing this distance the ball just stopped on the green and rolled maybe for 1m or even less. In this case my concept did not work anymore. Does this come from bigger swing speed on the longer shots which adds more backspin? I would describe the my 5m-10m chip shots as 10% of my max power. The longer 10-20m shots maybe around 20-%-30% of my power. So still not a very high swing speed and just a quarter swing.

Could be a few things. Mostly it's more clubhead speed, and the ball goes a bit higher as well. So, a steeper descent angle + spin means better stopping power. It could also be the green. If the green has more slope back to front, the ball will stop easier. 

[Patch]

Perhaps for shots of those lengths as discribed by the OP, maybe the 50, 54 degree clubs were the wrong clubs to chip those distances with?

Might less lofted clubs have been a better choice? 

[Righty to Lefty]

I like this explanation and demonstration from Chris Moss: 

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I like this explanation and demonstration from Chris Moss: 

That's a 75-yard shot. That's not a chip shot.

[Righty to Lefty]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's a 75-yard shot. That's not a chip shot.

The technique and concepts are still the same as to adding spin or reducing spin using ball position and landing angle.  The chip shot is a microcosm of these pitch shots in my opinion. These exact same things would happen to chip shots where the ball back in the stance doesn't spin as much people think because of the excessive forward shaft lean and the more you reduce the amount of shaft lean the more the shot will spin. 

[iacas]

40 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

The technique and concepts are still the same as to adding spin or reducing spin using ball position and landing angle.  The chip shot is a microcosm of these pitch shots in my opinion. These exact same things would happen to chip shots where the ball back in the stance doesn't spin as much people think because of the excessive forward shaft lean and the more you reduce the amount of shaft lean the more the shot will spin. 

To a point. He's wrong about reducing the smash factor leading to an increase in spin… I can hit shots with a very low smash factor… that barely spin at all. Once you get past about 50° spin loft, friction is reduced.

The most spin occurs around 45° spin loft, but you can get more spin up to about 55° spin loft if you also catch the ball almost two grooves thin. The 45°+ landing angle stuff is also out the window when talking about a chip shot - the ball shouldn't be that high in the air when hitting the topic title here: a spinning chip shot.

(FWIW I'm talking about a low spinning chip shot, not a 75-yard "chip" or even a 50-yard pitch.)

[Righty to Lefty]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

To a point. He's wrong about reducing the smash factor leading to an increase in spin… I can hit shots with a very low smash factor… that barely spin at all. Once you get past about 50° spin loft, friction is reduced.

The most spin occurs around 45° spin loft, but you can get more spin up to about 55° spin loft if you also catch the ball almost two grooves thin. The 45°+ landing angle stuff is also out the window when talking about a chip shot - the ball shouldn't be that high in the air when hitting the topic title here: a spinning chip shot.

(FWIW I'm talking about a low spinning chip shot, not a 75-yard "chip" or even a 50-yard pitch.)

Fair enough...I was just trying to contribute something that helped me out tremendously.  I also like how he is able to demonstrate the concept that he is talking about as this is useful to me to see the shots actually being hit with the associated trackman numbers.  I used to really struggle controlling chip and pitch shots and this video along with a few of your videos helped me clear things up.  

[iacas]

@Righty to Lefty, I should be clear, too: I'm talking about the low spinning chip shot. The topic here covers a bit more than that, but my comments today are mostly about that.